Incoming Hotfixes

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85 Night Elf Druid
2095
This is essentially a huge nerf to moonkins in PvP since we're mostly not in an Eclipse state. The correct thing to do is to nerf baseline Mastery bonus like Frost Mages and buff Moonfury bonus. Mastery could still scale well.
So...buff shadow priest, keep it buffed for like 1-2 months on PTR, then once it goes live, "Uh oh, we buffed it too much! *Nerfbat*!" ?

Thanks, Blizz.
85 Worgen Druid
9545
02/11/2011 6:27 PMPosted by Venoxis
This is essentially a huge nerf to moonkins in PvP since we're mostly not in an Eclipse state. The correct thing to do is to nerf baseline Mastery bonus like Frost Mages and buff Moonfury bonus. Mastery could still scale well.


This please.
85 Night Elf Druid
9720
The only issue I seriously have with this is that it appears to be balanced around an external buff, namely, Dark Intent. Only with this buff, do shadow priests appear near the top of the meters when compared to equally skilled players of other classes. Not all of us will have DI, and certainly not all the time, and I don't see what the issue is with DI pushing any class to the top of DPS meters.

It's like bringing in a shaman or mage for Heroism -- you fully expect higher than average dps out of everyone for those 40 seconds, it's intended. I would think that DI has a similar purpose, to boost damage (or healing) for a particular player. If druid heals were balanced around having DI, the amount of QQ would be ridiculous, so why is shadow priest dps being balanced around having DI?

The fact that we benefit the most from it is rather fortunate for us, which means that we quite often are the ones to receive DI. Thus our dps parses often appear quite high relative to other classes -- as it should be. How is this so different from raising someone's dps using personal buffs like Power Infusion? If one class happens to be the best recipient for PI and receive it often, this does NOT mean they should be balanced around having that buff, I'm sorry.

This exactly as well. Almost all of the top parses for balance/shadow all have a common theme running. DI/PI, and instead of nerfing what's causing these parses, you hit our damage directly instead. Good to know that we're in good hands.
85 Tauren Druid
6250
02/11/2011 6:22 PMPosted by Magguss
So you nerf moonkins after buffing mastery. Well played Blizz. Too late to give you back the mastery buff and keeping Moonfury where it is?


So true, I'd rather take our crappy mastery from 4.03 than have moonfury take a hit like that... The only fight that I can see after looking at WoL (even though it's a smaller pool of data) really only shows balance standing out in particular on Tot4W.

Sad druid is sad at broken class :(
02/11/2011 5:02 PMPosted by Bashiok
We are also likely to lower Arcane mage mana cost in some way, which will in turn buff their dps.


/facepalm
90 Human Priest
13495
The only issue I seriously have with this is that it appears to be balanced around an external buff, namely, Dark Intent. Only with this buff, do shadow priests appear near the top of the meters when compared to equally skilled players of other classes. Not all of us will have DI, and certainly not all the time, and I don't see what the issue is with DI pushing any class to the top of DPS meters.

It's like bringing in a shaman or mage for Heroism -- you fully expect higher than average dps out of everyone for those 40 seconds, it's intended. I would think that DI has a similar purpose, to boost damage (or healing) for a particular player. If druid heals were balanced around having DI, the amount of QQ would be ridiculous, so why is shadow priest dps being balanced around having DI?

The fact that we benefit the most from it is rather fortunate for us, which means that we quite often are the ones to receive DI. Thus our dps parses often appear quite high relative to other classes -- as it should be. How is this so different from raising someone's dps using personal buffs like Power Infusion? If one class happens to be the best recipient for PI and receive it often, this does NOT mean they should be balanced around having that buff, I'm sorry.

This exactly as well. Almost all of the top parses for balance/shadow all have a common theme running. DI/PI, and instead of nerfing what's causing these parses, you hit our damage directly instead. Good to know that we're in good hands.


Its Shadow Weaving all over again. Warlocks were doing too much damage so they nerfed shadow priests. GG
85 Draenei Priest
6490
I'm not sure these are balanced around 25 mans when those raids can get every buff available. Every 10 man isn't going to have DI or Totemic Wrath which is drastically inflating these numbers. I would have hoped more research went into these developments before you made these decisions. This expansion started off really horrible for 10 mans and continues to cater towards 25s and pvp. Could we fix the overtuned encounters and class reliability on 10 mans before making some of these judgment calls please?
90 Draenei Shaman
14860
Any plans to compensate fury for the nerf? It feels like a pvp change but their damage isn't all that great in PvE (and nowhere near boomkin or shadow).
90 Night Elf Druid
15810
Moonfury is NOT the moonkin mastery. Total Eclipse is....

You do realise with this change you are totally screwing moonkin pvp right?


No, they most likely do not realize it and it is hard to screw moonkin pvp as it has never been worth a crap anyways.
90 Troll Priest
11875
[/quote] Its Shadow Weaving all over again. Warlocks were doing too much damage so they nerfed shadow priests. GG[/quote]

Only this time Warlocks are buffing us, and yet is is us who is still getting nerfed... A little consistency would be nice!
Edited by Olishon on 2/11/2011 6:33 PM PST
85 Worgen Druid
9545
02/11/2011 6:32 PMPosted by Olishon
Only this time Warlocks are buffing us, and yet is is us who is still getting nerfed... A little consistency would be nice!


Seems consistent to me:
Spriests are buffing warlocks too much - nerf spriest!
Warlocks are buffing spriests too much - nerf spriest!
72 Night Elf Warrior
1040
Ever notice that Mages and Rogues never (really) get hit with the nerf bat? Is this Blizzard's solution to tank/heal shortages? Nerf our DPS specs down so we will tank or heal instead of DPSing?
85 Worgen Warrior
2455
02/11/2011 5:02 PMPosted by Bashiok
In all three cases we’ve been closely monitoring performance since the patch and all 3 specs are currently doing too much damage in PvE. In the case of Shadow and Fury we were also worried about their PvP burst potential, but didn’t want to risk affecting them in PvE. Now that we have concluded they are too high in PvE, both aspects of the game should feel more balanced.


Too much damage? Too much damage in comparison to whom?

Both Arms and Fury Warriors tend to be toward the bottom of meters in raids.

Edit: I can completely understand the burst damage being too high in certain cicumstances, but nothing to balance it out in the long haul?
Edited by Malkaedus on 2/11/2011 6:38 PM PST
85 Blood Elf Hunter
6705
Personally I like casting Aimed Shot, and it's not for the huge numbers. It gives MM a feel of its own, as if you're actually a marksman. They should bring the damage:focus ratio to a place they like, then scale it to a lower cast time. Change Master Marksman talent to have a 100% chance to gain a stack of MMM buff when successfully attacking with Arcane Shot. After 3 stacks, proc the instant Aimed Shot. Make us expend some focus to gain benefits so we can get away from RNG, as well as relying on our Steady Shot. I like the risk involved with Marksmanship right now. Sure, the lack of mobility when hardcasting Aimed Shots kinda sucks, but that's the fun in taking a risk to stand still.

Chimera Shot needs to be addressed as well. As it stands right now, there's no incentive to use it as soon as it comes off of cooldown. Maybe add the Serpent Sting damage component back to it?

And honestly, the Survival nerfs need to be reverted or adjusted. The spec does not scale well with gear at all. The nerfs came at a point where a majority of people were not very well-geared and were leaps and bounds behind Survival as a result. Now that we've had some time to accumulate some gear, other classes' damage has scaled up equal to and even beyond what Survival was at when it was "too high." The Into the Wilderness nerf hurt our scaling pretty bad, but it can maybe be evened out through coming up with a new formula to calculate the damage of Explosive Shot and Black Arrow.

I know it's not easy pleasing 12 million players, and I'm not criticizing at all. I'm just voicing my concern and the concern (and sadly, rage) that I've experienced throughout the hunter community.

But thank you for giving my class the attention it needs, even if it could possibly herald more nerfs!
85 Night Elf Hunter
0
Aimed Shot is already hitting low on high-resilience, high armor targets. Nerfing a 3.5 second cast "shot" that requires a kiting class to stand still is... umm..

Yeah.


There are a dozen other outlets to nerf Aimed Shot damage without specifically nerfing the damage. Perhaps you could take a look at Marksman talents like Careful Aim and adjust those. I'm just not seeing a point to be playing this game if you're going to be throwing switches all willy-nilly. I left the game in WotLK because of, frankly, embarrassingly bad PvP. I came back to play with friends and am feeling like it's been a giant mistake.

This is coming from someone who leveled as a Resto druid in Vanilla, and fought the good fight to make Feral and Balance specs that could be taken seriously.

Could we get off the effin' roller coaster and start making small changes? I don't see who benefits from such wild leaps in effectiveness.

I'm not even getting into Master's Call, which, honestly, was just a bait-and-switch.
85 Night Elf Hunter
2635
"Would anybody with access to US forums ask them if they were accounting for starfall inflating our DPS pre-hotfix?

Looking at Simcraft our DPS should be rather sub-par compared to other classes post starfall and moonfury changes."

Quoted from the EJ thread.
50 Blood Elf Warlock
830
I'm frankly disgusted with some of the hunters in this thread. You realize that people are force casting Aimed Shot as their best PvE dps rotation don't you? Is this a case of:
-You don't know
OR
-You don't want to admit it

If it's the former, you don't actually experiment enough that you should be commenting on changes.
If it's the later, you are the worst kind of poster.

Aimed shot spam is out of control in PvE AND PvP. Mis selling yourself on the forums doesn't avoid fixes. It just hinders actual feedback.

(to those hunters just talking about how hawk is a bad place to rebuff but admitting aimed shot needs to be toned down, I'm sorry, this isn't directed at you.)


Most hunters probably don't know this for the simple reason that it is the talent that hunters have makes 60% of Aimed Shots crit on targets over 80% health that is "broken", not Aimed Shot at all. That talent is the reason for the insane recount number from hunters at the beginning of fights. You'd think whoever created that talent trer would have had a light bulb go off in their head when they heard Aimed Shot would be boosted so far in DPS...but no.

So, Blizzard will apparently rob Peter not understanding that Paul even exists, then pay Guido.
Edited by Tyri on 2/11/2011 6:42 PM PST
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