The Exalted Title

(Locked)

85 Blood Elf Priest
7275
The title itself was part of the issue. What follows my character name is as much a part of my appearance as my gear, especially since I'm in shadowform most of the time.

The bigger problem was the policy change, exacerbated by the failure to give any notice beforehand. Achievements have been billed, prior to this, as something you get and keep forever. Ones that have become impossible to complete have been converted to Feats and a few minor ones have been deleted entirely, but none of the major ones had been changed before this. If Blizzard wants to change the system they can, but they owe it to their customers not spring it on us at the last minute and to clearly state the rationale for the change.

It wouldn't have greatly bothered me if I'd had to re-explore the changed zones to retain "the Explorer" or do all the quests in the new zones to hold onto "the Loremaster" (having to do all the altered low level content would have been pushing it). If they'd said, back in November, that we'd need need to grind out an additional five or ten reps to retain "the Exalted" I'd have ground out the needed reps by now. Since I didn't know I needed to, I spent my in-game time on other projects.

Really, what it comes down to is this: if Blizzard feels free to alter achievements capriciously and retroactively, they aren't worth doing.
100 Night Elf Hunter
19795


I said nothing about how prestigious it was/is. I don't care if it's easier/harder to obtain, but if Blizzard wanted to make it harder without going all the way to the extreme, they could have chosen 45 instead of back to 40.

Though, I appreciate you telling me I don't have any friends that I worked with or helped me work towards the title or achievements and no one cares about me or will remember what we did together.

By the way, I stroll past people with awesome titles/mounts all the time and it tells me a) that they like that title for some reason (fits well with their name, proud of it, like how it looks etc.), b) they could be pretty skilled.

Allow me to preface by saying I like you Adele. You can provide a point bereft of emotion. Kudos. As for the topic at hand, you might have online friends that share in your enjoyment today. You might have people that express on ventrilo how cool it is to have achieve such a thing. What you won't have is someone who actually cares about the accomplishment when not in a scenario that promotes it. You are the sole provider for the delight of achieving what you have. And, again I want to iterate that NOTHING can diminish what someone has achieved in WoW. However, you can dimish your legacy by showing that your endgame was more important than your journey.

If you achieved the exalted repurtation prior to this removal of said reputation. Not a single person in this world can take that away from you. And, not a single persons opinion should matter to you. you accomplished it. Personal achievement trumps.

Who said they were only online? One of my best real life friends lives too far away to see each other often and she was a big part of my grinding old reputations and we had tons of fun doing it and became closer in real life because of it. I'm proud of and love my Exalted title because it represents the many friends I've played with through this game, just as I am proud of my Amani War Bear and Ironbound Protodrake for all the fun times we had earning them.

You seem to be saying that the former change (removal) might have hurt my virtual pride somehow because I lost the title, it didn't hurt my pride, it hurt my head. I still had the achievement, the screenshots, the memories, but I was no longer "Adele the Exalted", and that was not okay because as many others have said, we were told that we would not lose titles.

I will, and plan to, grind at least 7 more reputations to exalted, but on my own terms, when I get to 50 doesn't matter to me. However, if this change had stayed and I'd known ahead of time that I'd have to start doing that to be able to keep my title...I would have done that, months and months ago.
Edited by Adele on 2/11/2011 10:04 PM PST
85 Blood Elf Paladin
8250
Thank you Blizz for returning the title. This has made my day.
85 Gnome Priest
3755
Skyypio

Maybe some players did pack up their bags and leave without popping into the forums.

Not everyone complains about what they see as bad service, not to the provider of said bad service anyhow.

The good thing about people complaining on forums is it shows interest and commitment, they have taken the time to provide feedback.

As a last straw the removal of Exalted was more like a haystack that broke the camels back.

Not just in how it was implemented but also as an indicator of future changes with other achievements and so on in the future.

Maybe that is why it got a few mentions in the Last Straw category. Of course forum goers in every game say they are quitting over issues for many different reasons. Not all of them do, but why they do mention it is probably because of a feeling of powerlessness.

What else can they do to stress the importance of the issue?
Thank you.
85 Blood Elf Priest
10955
Skypio
If you achieved the exalted repurtation prior to this removal of said reputation. Not a single person in this world can take that away from you. And, not a single persons opinion should matter to you. you accomplished it. Personal achievement trumps.


Here is part of what I posted on the thread about the removal of the title:
Their game, yes. What I don't think they or even other posters are grasping is that while it is their game, it was my achievement. They didn't "give" it to me. They allowed me the opportunity and the option to work for it, with the understanding that my hard work would be acknowledged by them with a certain title. I will always know I did it. I will always know how much work it took and how much of a grind it was. That at least they cannot take.

But they went back on their part of the arrangement, withdrawing their agreed upon acknowledgment of all the work I did. They did it without even the courtesy of a notification ahead of time that it would happen. And by doing so, they destroyed any trust I had in anything they may have to say. That may not matter at all to them. But on both a personal and professional level, once you make the decision that being considered trustworthy has little to no value, then you have lost something that matters a great deal more than a title.

There was a much deeper issue for some people than the loss of a title. I cannot speak for them, but I can understand how the loss of trust may have influenced someone to cancel their subscription more than the loss of the title. Can you?
Edited by Heysugar on 2/11/2011 10:06 PM PST
100 Orc Warlock
11145
Thank you for changing it back. I don't even care about the actual title removal (I have the achievement for 40 reps), but it set a terrible precedent that Blizzard could take away anything we earned via achievement rewards at any time, when they decide to. It made obtaining achievement rewards almost not worth it since they could be taken away.

I think you should take it one step further and make a statement that you will never remove achievement rewards from people that were obtained legitimately. It's kinda lame you even tried, to be honest, but it's good you decided to revert it.

This of course excludes special cases where you announce beforehand that they will function like that, like the Arena titles.
Edited by Democles on 2/11/2011 10:05 PM PST
85 Human Paladin
3570
Thank you, Blizzard. And a special thank you to Bashiok for covering the difficult job of being the messenger.

02/11/2011 9:40 PMPosted by Skyypio
Psychologically speaking, which is my background
02/11/2011 9:25 PMPosted by Skyypio
You are the sole provider for the delight of achieving what you have. And, again I want to iterate that NOTHING can diminish what someone has achieved in WoW.


As someone with a background in Psychology, it might help to look at this through the negative reinforcement instead of looking at the achievements and memories one experiences in life. Something was taken away from people, so it is the negative reinforcement that caused the reaction. If you punish someone while simultaneously saying "you did nothing wrong," that's going to frustrate people at a very fundamental level.

The wording of the announcement also made people fear this would be a recurring issue in the future. So now people were evaluating WoW as something that might randomly punish them for doing absolutely nothing wrong, which is hard to accept from what is normally a great source of entertainment and escape from reality.

At least that's what I took from reading through many of the posts people made in the previous threads, combined with my own understanding of Psychology. It was much rarer to see comments focusing on feeling their effort was degraded, and much more common to see comments focusing on how something was taken away.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
0

Allow me to preface by saying I like you Adele. You can provide a point bereft of emotion. Kudos. As for the topic at hand, you might have online friends that share in your enjoyment today. You might have people that express on ventrilo how cool it is to have achieve such a thing. What you won't have is someone who actually cares about the accomplishment when not in a scenario that promotes it. You are the sole provider for the delight of achieving what you have. And, again I want to iterate that NOTHING can diminish what someone has achieved in WoW. However, you can dimish your legacy by showing that your endgame was more important than your journey.

If you achieved the exalted repurtation prior to this removal of said reputation. Not a single person in this world can take that away from you. And, not a single persons opinion should matter to you. you accomplished it. Personal achievement trumps.

Who said they were only online? One of my best real life friends lives too far away to see each other often and she was a big part of my grinding old reputations and we had tons of fun doing it and became closer in real life because of it. I'm proud of and love my Exalted title because it represents the many friends I've played with through this game, just as I am proud of my Amani War Bear and Ironbound Protodrake for all the fun times we had earning them.

You seem to be saying that the former change (removal) might have hurt my virtual pride somehow because I lost the title, it didn't hurt my pride, it hurt my head. I still had the achievement, the screenshots, the memories, but I was no longer "Adele the Exalted", and that was not okay because as many others have said, we were told that we would not lose titles.

I will, and plan to, grind at least 7 more reputations to exalted, but on my own terms, when I get to 50 doesn't matter to me. However, if this change had stayed and I'd known ahead of time that I'd have to start doing that to be able to keep my title...I would have done that, months and months ago.


Are you not still Adele the exalted with those previous factions? Your friends might be so as of today. But what of tomorrow or the day after? Don't give too much credence to those of an environment full of falseness.

I love this game. It lets me play without any sense of regret. Fun is fun. No matter how you cut it.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
10165
I still wish they'd gone one further and scaled up the requirements for Loremaster and Explorer as well.
90 Night Elf Hunter
10920
02/11/2011 7:47 PMPosted by Bashiok
the decision has been made to move ‘the Exalted’ title back to require 40 exalted reputations.
Finally . . . Blizzard listens to their player base.
Now . . . how about "The Keymaster" achievement?
90 Troll Shaman
10680
how about x of the horde and of the alliance title?
Edited by Cheatcat on 2/11/2011 10:20 PM PST
87 Human Paladin
9285
Thank you SO much for this post, it's made my weekend! Again, it wasn't really about the title for me so much as wondering if achievements would be worth doing at all, and now I can continue to enjoy them!

A huge thanks to the GMs though who did actually listen to us and considered our point of view. There have been many times now where things have been questioned, but you guys have always come through - not immediately, but that's to be expected with major decisions. Again, thank you very much!
85 Human Death Knight
10260
Good decision guys.
85 Blood Elf Hunter
6540
Thanks Blizz! Now my faith in you is mostly restored!
85 Human Warlock
9930
Hmmm...

I liked the 50 exalted change. Maybe give something cool at 55 reputations exalted?
85 Gnome Priest
3755
Deathsembrac

This doesn't need anyone getting the boot.

If anything it needs someone being hired/restructured.

Someone who looks at future ideas and whose first questions are always.

"Are you crazy!"

"Why would you do this?"

Followed by long critiques.

If ideas pass that test then my guess is the CM team wouldn't be forced into cheerfully bouncing into the forums and a hail of bullets.
100 Tauren Druid
20925
Thank you for the explanation, apology, and solution. This entire situation had valid points on each side, even if some of the players got a little heated, and it's good to see it come to a resolution.

As someone who earned the Exalted title a short time ago, I was quite unhappy with the change - especially since it came from left field, and its treatment seemed inconsistent with other titles such as the Seeker and Loremaster. I had full intentions of grinding as many reps as I could over time, so the initial change wasn't a game-breaking detail for me, but it still rubbed me the wrong way.

For what it's worth, if the difference in mechanics and reason for taking away the title had been explained clearly at the outset I would have understood, and I suspect most others would as well. We'd be disappointed, certainly, but knowing that the loss of the title we'd worked for wasn't based on an arbitrary and subjective criteria such as "we think it's a cool title" makes a difference, at least to me.

I don't think I'll slap the title back on right away, even if I was proud of it when I'd earned it. There's a bit too much negative karma associated with it for me now, after seeing all the trolls and elitists come out to argue. I'll stick to Guardian of Cenarius, that always felt like a nice title for my druid (and was one of the first titles I worked towards, naturally).
100 Human Warlock
16150
Thanks, Blizz, for reversing one of the worst decisions you've ever made.

Hopefully you guys have learned what not to do.
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