The Exalted Title

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90 Human Warlock
13710
02/11/2011 11:34 PMPosted by Colossia
I think the problem was communication. I am not an achievement hunter and am pretty neutral about the change itself, but by not communicating properly and proceeding with the changes they have made some major mistakes. But I know they still have 12 million customers for a reason :)


Lack of communication was part of the problem - the change was never mentioned in any patch notes ahead of time (which is pretty sloppy), and when they originally announced it they didn't explain why "Exalted" was different than "Loremaster" or "Explorer" (they have since - but they should have explained it better at the start).

But honestly - even if they had given advance notice, people would be upset and rightfully so. Taking away a title that somebody has already earned is completely bogus - no matter how you look at it. It's one thing to make a title not obtainable anymore - but to take away a title that people have already earned is stupid. The reaction was completely predictable.
90 Human Mage
16360
I'm not happy with how easy the title is to get now vs when it first was available but removing the title after earning it was way too extreme even if it's super cool.

I'd be happy with a title for all the old raid reps myself ;)
85 Gnome Priest
6460
5 more to go now, thanks mon. =D
I am SO glad. I was SUPER upset when I logged on and it was gone. I've refused to wear any title since, but now that it's being 'refunded', guess I can wear my title that I earned again =)
85 Blood Elf Warrior
7990
Out of curiosity...would it have been possible to have moved the original 40 rep achievement to an FoS and create an entirely new fully tiered rep achievements from 1 to 50 on a new set of IDs?

That way the title could be applied to the FoS version of the 40 rep acheivement, AND to the 50 rep acheivement, plus you would be granted all the new tiers of the rep achievements that you qualified for with the reps you have now, right?
85 Night Elf Druid
7685
Perhaps things like this will prompt Blizzard to communicate more effectively with the player base.

Since Wrath I have felt that the communication between the players and what is happening has been very lax and has led to tons of wasted time via tickets and GM's having to just sit and respond instead of helping with viable issues.

I personally hope Blizzard's communication with us about upcoming changes and the reasons behind them improve from what they have been in the past. Customer service and communication is always a vital aspect of business and I feel it was a part of why Blizzard was successful in the past. With this decline in communication I only feel it is adding to the frustration many players feel when they don't understand why something is happening. This should be addressed.

I have however, little faith it will be.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
9495
Recently we changed 'the Exalted' title to require 50 exalted titles up from 40, which meant those that had achieved it were now asked to get 10 more reputations to gain the title back. We felt this kept the title as a difficult reward given the additional reputations introduced with Cataclysm, and also avoided the problem of achievement inflation as the game continues to grow, devaluing the reward.

We didn’t let people know beforehand that we were making this change. A pretty cut and dry error on our part. We take full responsibility for not communicating the change properly, and apologize for the frustration it added to the situation. Unfortunately, that frustration in some people’s cases went to an extreme. Over the past couple days we’ve handed out innumerable suspensions to people who were unable to stay within the forum code of conduct while posting about this change. We of course understand passions can run hot, but some of the violations were extreme enough to remove people’s posting privileges permanently. It’s unfortunate because rational, calm, and constructive posting is the type of feedback that’s taken, discussed, and can help encourage real change. For those that were able to adhere to those posting ideals, we truly thank you for your efforts in keeping your cool.

We took your constructive posts and points, and after discussing the change for quite a while with the designers, the decision has been made to move ‘the Exalted’ title back to require 40 exalted reputations. We’re going to attempt this change with a hotfix, but are unsure at this time if it will be able to be applied through a hotfix. It’s possible that a client patch will be required. (We’ll let you know if it does.)

The 45 and 50 exalted reputation achievements will continue to exist, but for the time being won’t provide anything beyond achievement points. As some have questioned why the title isn’t grandfathered like ‘the Loremaster’ or ‘the Explorer’ titles, these function differently mechanically. While their requirements have changed, the actual achievement is the same. There’s no tech currently that allows us to give a title for an achievement and then move that title to a different achievement altogether and have people keep them. We are however working on such a technology that will allow players to keep items or titles associated with achievements even if we decide to change that criteria. So, say if we eventually decide to move ‘the Exalted’ title to an achievement which requires 60 reputations in the next expansion (just as an example), players who already earned the title at 40 reputations will get to keep the title when the criteria changes. This technology would allow us to let players keep titles or items they’ve already earned, while ensuring we don’t get stuck in a position where we have to continually generate new rewards just so those who earned them originally don’t lose them.

Thanks again for your feedback.


So in essence complaining and getting banned was worth it. I always marvel at how the blue posters can make totally off-topic remarks in a thread and not get reprimanded like players do.
90 Human Mage
0
Yay,

Thanks for listening to all your loyal customers!

...players who already earned the title at 40 reputations will get to keep the title when the criteria changes...


Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Ghostcrawler say a similar thing about Titles that were earned won't be removed?

...and yet, here we are in this situation where a Title was removed, and then restored (well, yet to be restored via a hotfix). Further more, Keys as well as a Keymaster achievement have been removed and no mention of restoration of them.

How can we the community trust in those words when it has been broken once?
Can you assure the community that this will never happen again and that your words here do in fact mean something to us?

I guess we have no option but to trust in those words, but you probably know that after this, your community has been shook up, so Blue Posts and what they promise and deliver will no doubt be monitored by many of us, more so than usual. I mean no offense to any Blue Posters with writing that. Just saying, once bitten twice shy kind of deal now.

That all said, I do thank you for passing our concerns on to the developers and discussing them on behalf of your community. Many of us however, didn't appreciate threads being locked or deleted (as some claimed were). Moderate the discussions, sure, but lock people out from being able to discuss further in the thread just breeds more anger.

Thank you again. =)
Edited by Maziel on 2/12/2011 12:26 AM PST
85 Blood Elf Paladin
9555
Good thing I'll never try for this title.
90 Dwarf Paladin
7665
02/11/2011 7:47 PMPosted by Bashiok
Thanks again for your feedback.

Stay classy blizz!
85 Tauren Paladin
7685
I wonder how much of this change was prompted by monetary influence.
85 Worgen Hunter
13410
I hope that both sides have learned something.

I hope blizzard has indeed learned that they should forewarn players about scaling up an achievement's difficulty to keep it as something that is still impressive to earn VS. another 'time invested doing regular activities' boy scout badge. I would hope, though, that the 50 exalted reputation achievement would grant something to those particular players. Perhaps a tabard with an on-use? Then again, hold off on that until you've implemented proper tabard storage.

And I hope all the people who got banned from the forums learned that threatening blizzard employees, other posters or acted in a generally ridiculous enough fashion have learned the value of treating other human beings with a modicum of respect.

Still seems there are some that still need to learn that, though, as I see quite a few people still posting reasonable counter-arguments that are getting reported for 'trolling'.

If someone is posting something you don't like, that doesn't mean they're trolling. It means that they have a different opinion that you should consider. And if you can't bring yourself to logically bring yourself to be able to discuss such differences then you just shouldn't say anything at all.

Or Blizzard should start distributing temp bans for people who abuse the report trolling feature. That'd be a great way to teach people to not essentially writhe and scream in reaction to someone of an opposite viewpoint.
Edited by Medrith on 2/12/2011 12:44 AM PST
85 Tauren Paladin
7685
I hope that both sides have learned something.

I hope blizzard has indeed learned that they should forewarn players about scaling up an achievement's difficulty to keep it as something that is still impressive to earn VS. another 'time invested doing regular activities' boy scout badge.

And I hope all the people who got banned from the forums learned that threatening blizzard employees, other posters or acted in a generally ridiculous enough fashion have learned the value of treating other human beings with an modicum of respect.

Still seems there are some that still need to learn that, though, as I see quite a few people still posting reasonable counter-arguments that are getting reported for 'trolling'.

If someone is posting something you don't like, that doesn't mean they're trolling. It means that they have a different opinion that you should consider. And if you can't bring yourself to logically bring yourself to be able to discuss such differences then you just shouldn't say anything at all.

Or Blizzard should start distributing temp bans for people who abuse the report trolling feature. That'd be a great way to teach people to not essentially writhe and scream in reaction to someone of an opposite viewpoint.

Sadly, the voice of reason above will be lost in the noise of the internet. An excellent post, though. <3
85 Dwarf Paladin
9455
Thank you for a number of things with this post, Bash.

First, we appreciate the heads up on Blizzard's immediate plans as well as a preview of both what the obstacle is and the intention going forward with the future for this and similar achievements and titles.

Second, we appreciate both the acknowledgement of the error and the apology from the developers for not informing the community.

I offer this part as an attempt both to acknowledge what you guys go through and also to remind you of where we, as the players, stand on these kinds of things. Though I know you guys are human, every so often I see something that makes me wonder if you have an entirely realistic expectation of how players will, should and even can react.

I agree that the forums need to be a pleasant, productive place. Obsceninites, threats, name-calling - we can be more mature than that, and should be. And when an immature minority take to the flame-war and just tear into you guys, sure - they should get some discipline for that.

But when, as in this case, the player base is so fired up and so many people are reacting viscerally that you have to mete out - as you put it - innumerable suspensions... that should communicate to you that it might not be the player-base that is causing the problem. Now, you acknowledged that the fault for causing this problem falls on you guys (I can't express how refreshing that is), but I do question if perhaps (and I offer this as food for thought) the developers have gotten too sensitive and too ban-happy when people express frustration in a less than ideally constructive way.

I know it's an ongoing process. But spirited discussions are going to include frustration and even anger from time to time. Look at Congress! :)

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