Cat DPS Guide - 4.3

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85 Night Elf Druid
0

thanks for picking this up tangedyn.


appreciate it.
90 Night Elf Druid
6925
I would just like to say that someone called you "Tang" and it made me giggle.
85 Tauren Druid
5435
02/22/2011 3:04 PMPosted by Ikagawa
I would just like to say that someone called you "Tang" and it made me giggle.


That's what most people call me in-game too...
85 Troll Druid
8455
If this has been mentioned before I do apologise in advance, but I was wondering why we choose a Strength enchant on our gloves rather than that of a Mastery enchant? Or are both viable options?
85 Worgen Druid
11305
Rinni - One point of strength unaugmented adds 2 AP, which effects all of our attacks. Unaugmented in the fact that after all other modifiers such as kings/mark of the wild cause it to give more than it's raw value. Strength in our relative stat values is directly under agility (which agility hovering around 2.9-3.2 for most people, strength will be around 2.1-2.4ish, and mastery at 1.1-1.3ish. Therefore, one point of strength is typically worth almost 2 points of mastery, which is why even the 35 strength enchant is superior to the 50 mastery enchant, let alone the 50 strength enchant.
85 Troll Druid
8455
02/23/2011 6:32 AMPosted by Slott
Rinni - One point of strength unaugmented adds 2 AP, which effects all of our attacks. Unaugmented in the fact that after all other modifiers such as kings/mark of the wild cause it to give more than it's raw value. Strength in our relative stat values is directly under agility (which agility hovering around 2.9-3.2 for most people, strength will be around 2.1-2.4ish, and mastery at 1.1-1.3ish. Therefore, one point of strength is typically worth almost 2 points of mastery, which is why even the 35 strength enchant is superior to the 50 mastery enchant, let alone the 50 strength enchant.


Thankyou very much :)
85 Tauren Druid
4275
does anyone use feral by night anymore? or is ovale better?
85 Tauren Druid
3735
02/16/2011 11:00 PMPosted by Aiseirighadh
I've noticed in Mew that my crit/haste are valued very closely to each other. Should I be trying to strike up a balance between the two or just reforging everything to the stat that has the slight advantage over the other?


Their effective increases in dps are dynamic through feedback with one another, any static evaluation of crit vs haste is mis leading.


I believe it's not really necessary, or maybe not even possible, to find the best balance between crit and haste, with too many other variables coming into play.


Maybe up to simulation, and obviously I agree, a perfect ratio is a myth due to situation, however there is an golden average ratio, I certainly just can't crunch the math at the level of sophistication needed to decipher it exactly it, but i'd like to dream...

Haste and Mastery feedback on Crit, essentially 0 with each other effective returns on dps diminish as you add more(don't mistake this for a diminishing return) the effective returns are:
x/(100+N) where x is the x% adding, N is your current %

increments of adding 10% haste
10% = .909 ; 1100 white dps = added 100dps: 10% effective increase
20% = .833 ; 1200 white dps = added 100dps: 9.09% effective increase

The same is true with creation of energy (haste), and combo points per min from crits (essentially a double hit)
______________________________________________________

Regarding crit v haste; Likely you have 30-40%crit as-is and maybe ~5% haste. Reforge Hit/exp into haste% to go up to about 10%. Distribution maximizes the feedbacks.

My current*** dps seems to benefit from distributed mastery/crit/haste in a ratio like this 6:3:1 reasoning/methodology
*** [edit - i had previously missed this important ingredientThe ratio depends on the base AP/Weapon one has, it is dynamic according to gear stats.

assume mastery 50%, Crit 30%, 10% haste [base 1000 physical with 1000 Bleed dps] =
1300 physical dps every .909 seconds (1430 dps) + 1950 bleed dps

adding 1% crit will be +11.1 physical dps, 1% free attack*, +15 bleed dps, +crit Procs (cost of 179.2801)
adding 1% haste will be +14.44 physical dps +6 energy/min**, +proc rate, +0 bleed dps (cost of 128.0572)
adding 1% mastery will be +0 physical dps and +13 bleed dps (cost of 57.369632)

* it is more accurate to say 1% more combos/min ~like 2 hits, (+100% damage +combo pnt)
** yellow physical damage theoretically augmented; more shreds/min

theoretical max is ~50 attacks/min (GCD + latency + human button mashing)
subtract rakes/rips+ mangle + 2-3 SRs
now you have about ~ 43 shreds/minute you can maximize haste% energy to

you have ~455energy + the ~5 OoC during this minute extra, thats ~15 shreds, any haste afterward allows you to approach the 43 / minute, would need ~180% haste (without factoring Berserk)

berserk is interesting putting shred @ 20/sec, loss = 10 energy balanced with 100% haste if starting w/ 20 energy (latency could put you at 1.2sec you'd only need 66%haste)

20 sec glyph = 200 energy and ideally start @ 120. Cost leaves you -80 energy, so missing ~4 shreds. Without a lucky OoC proc needs up to 40% haste to balance.

without the glyph, 150 energy / 15 seconds starting @ 120; cost of 15 shreds = 300 so -30 over 15 or 20% haste, w/o a OoC luck.

To recapitulate -
Crit feeds back with Both haste/mastery, mastery and haste feed essentially 0 with each other.
larger%s over counterparts ; greater benefit yielded by blending a ratio

Haste vs Mastery depends on effectiveness of bleeds
haste increases clear casting, (upto 5ppm max IIRC)
mind%'s due to buffs/mob debuffs
~ 22% haste functions as if a 2nd TF skill + white dps
Haste% should benefit Swipe > bleed with > 5 mobs, thus pushing dps up during AoEs
Mastery does scale in regard to mob armor mitigation

essentially you are trying to maximize 3 treadmills
1) bleeds dps from TF +mangle at all times
2)* enough haste% to ensure you have enough energy to do the full rotation
3)* Crit% to ensure combos per minute feedsback with your Haste to maximize rotation and keep SR up
*(automatic with greens at your level)

[ferocious bite, even with Rend and Tear crit needs a DPE evaluation, shred outperforms it for me now.]

BUGS
______________________________________________________________

***Feral aggression [re-edit] FFF(3) is effective +4% physical damage, this is correct.

Also NI is bugged. (minor issue) You can stay in cat form, shift to a spec without it, and still gain its 20% LOTP. You will note that mana however will adjust, but the healing is stuck to the value at time of entering cat form. You can also turn ON a 2/2 NI spec in cat form and NOT get the bonus (Shifting will fix it)

[edits] clarity/brevity/inaccuracies , on going [WIP]
Edited by Korba on 4/7/2011 3:48 PM PDT
85 Night Elf Druid
10790
02/23/2011 2:12 PMPosted by Ttallii
does anyone use feral by night anymore? or is ovale better?


FBN is hopelessly out of date. I do not know what the current state of the rotation is in FBN Lite - but to my knowledge it was never updated to include the rotation optimizations that have come out of the work several of us have done with Mew and is still mostly pre-cata.

At present, the best move suggester is Ovale with the script that I posted on the Fluid Druid website. There is also a script put together by Skarnu that includes my feral logic along with Moonkin and Resto logic (also posted on Fluid Druid). He has different support boxes - which comes down to personal preference. The default feral script that ships with Ovale is not bad now - it looks like it was based on the simulationcraft scripts (which I think were based on the Mew work we did - so it comes full circle) however this script has not been updated for 4.06 and is missing a few optimizations.

If I ever get my act together, I am working with Etherwind to update the rotation in Facemauler (which is still pre-cata).
94 Night Elf Druid
17560
Forgive me...but can someone explain to me how/why Primal Madness creates a dps increase? Is it in any way linked to the fact that it helps save excess energy when hitting tigers fury while above 25 energy?
85 Tauren Druid
5435
02/23/2011 10:47 PMPosted by Windgrace
Forgive me...but can someone explain to me how/why Primal Madness creates a dps increase? Is it in any way linked to the fact that it helps save excess energy when hitting tigers fury while above 25 energy?


Basically it's 20 free energy... assuming you are at 0 energy when the effect fades (which you can control using /cancelaura)

Probably requires superhuman timing to achieve effectively, but yes, it is a theoretical DPS increase.
85 Worgen Druid
13720
I know it's still early . . . but forgive me for being the forever pessimist anymore . . . .

No new cat changes for 4.1 yet.
94 Night Elf Druid
17560
02/23/2011 11:02 PMPosted by Tangedyn
Forgive me...but can someone explain to me how/why Primal Madness creates a dps increase? Is it in any way linked to the fact that it helps save excess energy when hitting tigers fury while above 25 energy?


Basically it's 20 free energy... assuming you are at 0 energy when the effect fades (which you can control using /cancelaura)

Probably requires superhuman timing to achieve effectively, but yes, it is a theoretical DPS increase.


...I must be missing something. Assuming that my energy never hits 100 during the duration of TF...am I losing anything? Obviously I aim to use TF constantly and will usually be sub-25 when I push it. If I am sub-25 I don't lose any energy. Is it basically just the cover that allows me to be as high as 45?
85 Worgen Druid
13720
02/24/2011 7:04 PMPosted by Windgrace


Basically it's 20 free energy... assuming you are at 0 energy when the effect fades (which you can control using /cancelaura)

Probably requires superhuman timing to achieve effectively, but yes, it is a theoretical DPS increase.


...I must be missing something. Assuming that my energy never hits 100 during the duration of TF...am I losing anything? Obviously I aim to use TF constantly and will usually be sub-25 when I push it. If I am sub-25 I don't lose any energy. Is it basically just the cover that allows me to be as high as 45?


Basically what it comes down to is it's never a dps loss unless you are capping energy, which you shouldn't be. It's only a dps gain when it falls off when you're sub-20 energy; the closer to 0 the better the gain.

It's all very, very minimal.
85 Worgen Druid
3020
I was just wondering if anyone could look at my gear and tell me what they think I should buy with my VP? I currently have 2,550 to spend. My guild is pushing heroics but I'm not banking on getting much of the heroic gear any time soon. I used this guide http://fluiddruid.net/2011/01/the-fluid-druid%E2%80%99s-cataclysm-feral-dps-gear-list-part-2/ to get an idea of what I should spend my points on but it really doesn't seem worth it.
85 Worgen Druid
13720
02/25/2011 11:14 AMPosted by Kiono
I was just wondering if anyone could look at my gear and tell me what they think I should buy with my VP? I currently have 2,550 to spend. My guild is pushing heroics but I'm not banking on getting much of the heroic gear any time soon. I used this guide http://fluiddruid.net/2011/01/the-fluid-druid%E2%80%99s-cataclysm-feral-dps-gear-list-part-2/ to get an idea of what I should spend my points on but it really doesn't seem worth it.


Well, there isn't much available besides ring and tier gear. Not sure why you got the relic since it is probably the lowest dps upgrade from anything you could get, but oh well. Just start grabbing up tier pieces to replace whatever 346s you have left (i.e. chest/legs).
90 Tauren Druid
15950
02/25/2011 11:14 AMPosted by Kiono
I was just wondering if anyone could look at my gear and tell me what they think I should buy with my VP? I currently have 2,550 to spend. My guild is pushing heroics but I'm not banking on getting much of the heroic gear any time soon. I used this guide http://fluiddruid.net/2011/01/the-fluid-druid%E2%80%99s-cataclysm-feral-dps-gear-list-part-2/ to get an idea of what I should spend my points on but it really doesn't seem worth it.


Pants. Not the healing pants.

First and foremost, they're a direct upgrade. Second I would probably swap out gloves for the two-piece bonus as you can replace your chestpiece with Sark of the Unwatched(Archamedes) or the crafted Assassination Chestpiece. Third would be the ring.

Edit: I should clarify. The Sark of the Unwatched is a better outright piece than the TIER chest until 4pc. When comparing whether to replace your chest or gloves for your 2pc the gloves come out as less of a DPS loss. Ultimately the Helm will still be your best off-piece until heroic mode stuff.

This is all assuming you're very much like me and have cleared cho'gall every week since the third week of the xpac and have only seen the druid/mage/rogue/dk shoulders drop ONCE.
Edited by Ghrell on 2/25/2011 10:48 PM PST
85 Tauren Druid
5435
02/25/2011 10:41 PMPosted by Dysheki
Well, there isn't much available besides ring and tier gear. Not sure why you got the relic since it is probably the lowest dps upgrade from anything you could get, but oh well. Just start grabbing up tier pieces to replace whatever 346s you have left (i.e. chest/legs).


While it's true that the Relic is a small DPS upgrade over R346 alternatives, you'll have to consider that it is also BIS until 4.1, so you won't be replacing it for a while.
90 Night Elf Druid
8205
Thank you for this excellent guide!
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