Cat DPS Guide - 4.3

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100 Tauren Druid
6145
Do we still get 80% of our energy refunded if we miss? So far every guide i've seen says this, but, wasn't that removed?

Just going by what this says:
http://www.wowwiki.com/Primal_Precision

I'd really like to know if Hit/Expertise are still lower in importance than Mastery/crit/haste if it is true that we no longer get 80% back :(


Primal Precision only affected the finishers. For generators they have always been 80% refund.
In cataclysm, the 80% refund has been baked in, we do not require any talents to get the refund.
85 Worgen Druid
4785
Do we still get 80% of our energy refunded if we miss? So far every guide i've seen says this, but, wasn't that removed?

Just going by what this says:
http://www.wowwiki.com/Primal_Precision

I'd really like to know if Hit/Expertise are still lower in importance than Mastery/crit/haste if it is true that we no longer get 80% back :(


Primal Precision only affected the finishers. For generators they have always been 80% refund.
In cataclysm, the 80% refund has been baked in, we do not require any talents to get the refund.


Thanks much for the reply! :) didn't know what had been done. Again Thanks for clarifying this doubt for me!
85 Worgen Druid
11305
@berserk glyph vs TF - I'd say it's really fight dependent, since simulations don't take many fight mechanics into consideration, and pop berserk right away. On fights such as heroic nef, green phase maloriak, an omnotron golem being tanked in a poison cloud...it may be better to save berserk for these situations, where the monster(s) are taking double (or more) damage.

Heroic Nef with 150 stacks of stolen power? Glyph of berserk. 200,000 damage shreds are awesome.
Maloriak - green phase, vile swills + aberations are all great uses of extended berserk.
Omnotron - poison clouds / double damage puddles.
Magmaw - head spiked


Other fights? Probably debatable for which is best, since there are no outstanding factors on a fight like chimaeron, atramades, valiona/theralion, etc.
85 Night Elf Druid
10970
03/08/2011 7:35 AMPosted by Slott
@berserk glyph vs TF - I'd say it's really fight dependent, since simulations don't take many fight mechanics into consideration, and pop berserk right away. On fights such as heroic nef, green phase maloriak, an omnotron golem being tanked in a poison cloud...it may be better to save berserk for these situations, where the monster(s) are taking double (or more) damage.


Berserk is a better glyph because of the buff to Shred, and lack of buff to FB, which means for 20 secs, other than making sure mangle, rake, and rip are up, you are Shred Spamming the entire time. Yes Berserk is situational as to when you use it, but that's your call. Regardless of when you use Berserk, its still better than TF at this point.
85 Worgen Druid
11305
Math proves otherwise (TF better in some situations, berserk in others) Also the value of berserk is directly tied to how often you can use it. 8 and a half minute fight? Start,3min,6min = 3 berserks. 30 seconds (or more like a minute) off of the last one, devaluing it in that situation.

See: http://elitistjerks.com/f73/t110356-feral_mew_simulator/p2/#post1880894

That being said, I use glyph of berserk mostly.
34 Night Elf Druid
320
Hey, thanks for the guide. I'll use this if I need any help when I reach level 85. Awesome guide to whoever made this and thanks for putting it up on WoW's forums.
85 Tauren Druid
3945
Was I reading correctly that in the coming patch that all interrupts will always hit now not matter what? So I assume that throws hit rating out the window all together for us?
85 Tauren Druid
3620
i have hit and soft expertise cap. i fair in the top two dps slots in heroics and raids since doing this. i mention this only to help you with more information and for you to test :).
90 Night Elf Druid
6925
03/09/2011 12:35 PMPosted by Bullicious
i have hit and soft expertise cap. i fair in the top two dps slots in heroics and raids since doing this. i mention this only to help you with more information and for you to test :).


That just means you are really bad about noticing when you miss.
85 Night Elf Druid
10970
http://fluiddruid.net/2011/02/the-sky-is-fallingno-the-sky-is-stable/

http://stateofdps.com/

“(Note that when I compare classes, I assume that top players will switch to the best DPS spec available to their class and gear; so I only count the top DPS spec for every class except shamans and druids, which I count individually.)”

Since Druids and Shamans are the only class with 2 dif DPS specs: Melee/Ranged, they are counted as different. Other Classes, only have the option for one top DPS spec: Fury will be the choice of all PVE Warriors (for now), All mages will go fire, etc, etc. The point is that if you class has an option of a dps spec in your style (Melee/Ranged) you are going to choose it. Nobody plays frost for PVE, its just unheard of.

Top 200 of Top PVE Spec per Class/Role (Melee/Ranged) Averages
Priest - Shadow 24733
Druid - Balance 24451
Mage - Fire 24267
Hunter - Marksmanship 24123
Warlock - Destruction 23942
Rogue - Assassination 22778
Death Knight - Unholy 22308
Paladin - Retribution 22114
Warrior - Fury 22060 22216
Shaman - Enhancement 21770
Shaman - Elemental 21711
Druid - Feral Cat 21544

Top 3 Average: 24483.6 = 3k DPS above Feral
Full Average of Top Viable DPS Specs per Class: 22996.4 = 1.5k DPS.

That means we are a total of 1.5k DPS below the Average of a viable spec of each class. These numbers are from the ToP 200 Parses of each Class for the last 2 weeks.


Top 40 of Top PVE Spec per Class/Role (Melee/Ranged) Averages
Mage - Fire 26807
Druid - Balance 26652
Priest - Shadow 26489
Hunter - Marksmanship 25828
Warlock - Destruction 25564
Rogue - Assassination 23962
Warrior - Fury 23678 23564
Shaman - Elemental 23618
Paladin - Retribution 23523
Shaman - Enhancement 23161
Death Knight - Unholy 22902
Druid - Feral Cat 22867

Full Average of Top Viable DPS Specs per Class: 24578.25 - 22867 = 1.7k.

So Top 40, and we are still Bottom of the Charts, under the Average by 1.7k DPS.
We are 15% DPS away from the Top of the Charts: 26807(85%) = 22785.95


Taking the Average of the Top 40 of Every class into account, which is : 24578.25
Average of the Top 40 of Melee Classes: 23348.83
Average of the Top 40 Feral Druids: 22867

1.7k below Average of Top Viable Specs for the 12 Classes.
518 DPS below Average of Top Viable Melee Specs.
Still a fairly large margin. Ranged DPS get roughly 2.5k DPS lead on us right now, even still, it doesn't change the fact that we are pulling up dead last and shouldn't be this big of a gap. IMHO there should be a 1k dps difference between the Top Spec and the 12th Spec (Excluding any addition specs: Frost/Arcane, since All mages will chose Fire)

I wouldn't mind being at the bottom, if that bottom was 5% from the top, not 15%.

85 Night Elf Druid
10970
03/09/2011 12:35 PMPosted by Bullicious
i have hit and soft expertise cap. i fair in the top two dps slots in heroics and raids since doing this. i mention this only to help you with more information and for you to test :).


I meant to post my quote of wall of info including this quote and a reply:

If you are hit/exp capped and pulling top 2 dps in raids/heroics then there are 2 things wrong:
A) You are gimping yourself and pulling less DPS than you would if you had 0 hit/exp. This has been test numerous times and verified, quit trying to change it. Yes you can do good dps with hit/exp cap, you do more without it.
B) If you are pulling top 2 dps, then the people you are running with are either severely under-geared and/or don't know how to play correctly. (see above)
90 Night Elf Druid
13800
03/09/2011 12:35 PMPosted by Bullicious
i have hit and soft expertise cap. i fair in the top two dps slots in heroics and raids since doing this. i mention this only to help you with more information and for you to test :).


Lemme see if I understand this, you, a feral with no cataclysm raid experience, who doesn't even gem or enchant the right way, knows more about feral dps then the top feral druids in the world? Ok, whatever you say dude. The 0/29 cataclysm raid acheivements just show how good you are. I thought about looking up your guild on world of logs, but once I saw that you hadn't even set foot in any Cata raids, I decided not to bother.

Btw: stop gemming for crit & stop reforging to expertise and hit. When one of the top feral dps in the world says the following:
"It's not recommended to go for the hit cap atm, as other stats like agility and mastery increase your dps much more!"
"It's not recommended to go for the expertise cap atm, as other stats like agility and mastery increase your dps much more!"
Their could be a reason why.

Change your 20 agi / 20 crit strike gems to - 20 agi / 20 mastery.
Get 22 agility enchant on cloak.
Get 15 stats on chest.
Get 35 strength on gloves (50 expertise is useless).
Get Ebonsteel Belt Buckle for your waist.
Change your prime glyph of mangle to either tiger's fury or berserk.

Edit: What the above poster said x 100000000.
Edited by Eqúinox on 3/9/2011 3:54 PM PST
85 Night Elf Druid
10970
03/09/2011 3:53 PMPosted by Eqúinox
Lemme see if I understand this, you, a feral with no cataclysm raid experience, who doesn't even gem or enchant the right way, knows more about feral dps then the top feral druids in the world? Ok, whatever you say dude. The 0/29 cataclysm raid acheivements just show how good you are. I thought about looking up your guild on world of logs, but once I saw that you hadn't even set foot in any Cata raids, I decided not to bother.


You can't always go off of how many achievements they have. I have 0/29 Cata Raid achieves, yet I have killed many Cata raid bosses, but because my guild does 10-mans for the end-bosses and they optimize for comp, I get benched, so I haven't had a chance to finish the "This raid completed -meta". Granted I would probably be better off being in a guild that mirrors my skill and can provide the raids I desire, but for the time being, my 11/12 Normal progression guild that gives a clicker shadow priest that has a total of two keybinds, which are for engineering cooldowns 2 Dark Intents because she has boobs, suits me just fine. Though, I did decide to check further, and he doesn't even have the first raid boss kill.


Change your 20 agi / 20 crit strike gems to - 20 agi / 20 mastery.
Get 22 agility enchant on cloak.
Get 15 stats on chest.
Get 35 strength on gloves (50 expertise is useless).
Get Ebonsteel Belt Buckle for your waist.
Change your prime glyph of mangle to either tiger's fury or berserk.


Also, until your budget can fund it, get +50 AP to bracers, its better than +50 Crit. Once you can afford it, get +50 Agi.
Edited by Konungr on 3/9/2011 4:26 PM PST
85 Worgen Druid
13720
03/09/2011 2:29 PMPosted by Ikagawa
i have hit and soft expertise cap. i fair in the top two dps slots in heroics and raids since doing this. i mention this only to help you with more information and for you to test :).


That just means you are really bad about noticing when you miss.


You could have worded that a lot differently . . . .
90 Night Elf Druid
6925
03/09/2011 8:32 PMPosted by Dysheki
You could have worded that a lot differently . . . .


I have no "sugar coat" setting.
85 Tauren Druid
10140
03/09/2011 3:02 PMPosted by Konungr
i have hit and soft expertise cap. i fair in the top two dps slots in heroics and raids since doing this. i mention this only to help you with more information and for you to test :).


I meant to post my quote of wall of info including this quote and a reply:

If you are hit/exp capped and pulling top 2 dps in raids/heroics then there are 2 things wrong:
A) You are gimping yourself and pulling less DPS than you would if you had 0 hit/exp. This has been test numerous times and verified, quit trying to change it. Yes you can do good dps with hit/exp cap, you do more without it.
B) If you are pulling top 2 dps, then the people you are running with are either severely under-geared and/or don't know how to play correctly. (see above)

For what its worth, the theoretical DPS loss for hit capping vs. going 0 hit is pretty damn small. (on the order of 1-2%, if I remember correctly)

It may be that his personal DPS is better being capped, since it removes the uncertainty of what the next move should be (i.e. no miss-rips at 4 combo points because your last shred missed), and no windows of opportunity missed due to a miss/parry.
85 Night Elf Druid
10970
For what its worth, the theoretical DPS loss for hit capping vs. going 0 hit is pretty damn small. (on the order of 1-2%, if I remember correctly)

It may be that his personal DPS is better being capped, since it removes the uncertainty of what the next move should be (i.e. no miss-rips at 4 combo points because your last shred missed), and no windows of opportunity missed due to a miss/parry.


Regardless of whether or not the DPS loss for hit capping is 1% or 5%, its still a DPS loss.
85 Tauren Druid
10140
Yes, but everybody gets all freaked out and calls people 'baddies' for hit capping, or call hit/exp "worthless".

Its not. Its trading quality of life for a small decrease (in the noise) of max theoretical DPS.

This is, of course, when you trade crit/haste for hit, and not if you trade agi for hit.
85 Worgen Druid
11305
The theoretical loss for 100 haste -> hit is about 15 dps. That's really not too bad at all, and considering the 15 dps loss is again...theoretical, it's probably smaller than that. I hope our future sets have hit and expertise, so I'm forced into wearing it, despite reforging some off.
85 Night Elf Druid
10970
03/10/2011 11:43 AMPosted by Slott
The theoretical loss for 100 haste -> hit is about 15 dps. That's really not too bad at all, and considering the 15 dps loss is again...theoretical, it's probably smaller than that. I hope our future sets have hit and expertise, so I'm forced into wearing it, despite reforging some off.


Don't you wish that on me Ricky Bobby. I'm quite happy that I don't have to worry about Hit/Exp other than for Interrupting (Patch 4.1 cannot come any sooner). I like being an exception to the rules. Just last night my GM was like "Kon how much hit do you have?" and "I was like 3%, and if those damned shoulders from Tron would drop it would be even less." He Freaked, "Why are you not hit capping as a melee dps?" "Because its not needed for Feral, we are a DoT class, after our Bleeds are up, they can't miss, and I get 80% energy refunded on misses." "Cool man, that's kinda awesome."
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