Incoming Healer Changes

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90 Undead Priest
17995
I'm glad that they're preventing shield-spamming from becoming the Disc Priest norm again -- it's a tedious way to heal -- but PvE-wise, I'm concerned about what this is going to do for fights where I'm not spamming shields but already having to juggle mana cooldowns very precisely; for instance, the pillar phase of Nefarian (normal mode is fine with my gear now, but I fear for Heroic) or tank-healing on Heroic Chimaeron.

PvP-wise, I'm just concerned, period. We already have problems with shields getting dispelled/spell-stolen as soon as they go up, our mana regen is, um, rather lackluster, and now it's also going to cost so much more to cast?

I seem to recall that there was a proposal for PW:S to apply a mana-increasing buff/debuff like Arcane Blast; wouldn't that be equally effective at discouraging shield-spamming while not punishing shields as much in normal situations?

I'm really happy that they're buffing Resto Shamans, though! Hopefully now the Resto Shamans I know can stop re-rolling Holy Pallies. :p
90 Human Priest
17200
While I fully understand the reasoning behind the shield nurf I sincerely hope that this is a tempory quick fix while the developers work on rebalancing the spec.

The problem is the mastery stat and 12+ talents all supporting one spell that is spamable. Other healers have their mastery improve multiple spells but because of the unreliability of Divine Aegis all that power is concentrated in one spell for disc which causes it to scale with gear approximately twice as fast as all the other spells in the disc arsenal.

Disc desperatly needs someway of spreading the damage mitigation/shielding aspect of it's mastery and tree design to spells other that shield in a non random way or by midway through the next tier of gear you will be back to where we were with disc shield spamming as mana pools and regen improve.

With the current tree design a disc priest only needs regen and mastery stats and can ignore/reforge haste and crit to improve their throughput and revert to buble spam. This change will very quickly be overlooked and you can't keep increasing the cost as the change as it stands is already pushing the boundries of effectiveness and viability for leveling, getting started in dungeons and PvP.

I sincerely request that the developers re-visit how the mastery is applied to disc and move some of the power from shield directly to other spells using either the holy pally model or the existing divine Aegis model or somthing similar or we will be back to where we were prior to this patch withing a tier of gear.
Edited by Eleanor on 2/16/2011 11:04 AM PST
85 Blood Elf Priest
6140
02/16/2011 10:54 AMPosted by Minstrel
Its not even about the nerf, the thing that makes me laugh inside (not at the change, but at the dev's) is the fact they act surprised, "We never intended this to be used MAINLY" You really could have fooled me, maybe you should possibly change our mastery and we would you know be willing to try other things. Until that day comes though, you know where Druids have Symbiosis and other healers have an increase on almost every spell they cast...Priests get an increase on one spell that is now since the last two patches being increased in mana cost by 64%?


Exactly, this change is terrible. We have tons of points in our tree that are dedicated to power word: shield and our mastery is dedicated to it as well so to say that it shouldn't be the majority of our healing just shows a real lack of consistency and makes me really question the developers. I have been sticking up for the Cata changes since day 1, I have posted many positive threads about the changes but I am tired of having a good attitude, this is really too much.

If you don't want us to use power word: shield as much then give us something else. Give us the long ago promised tank shield, or group shield or whatever it may be. Make penance a much bigger heal so the long cooldown is at least warranted, take some of those points in our tree that are dedicated to power word: shield and give us something else useful. But DO NOT dedicate our mastery and tree to an ability that should not be "our main spell" used.
Edited by Avalyne on 2/16/2011 11:04 AM PST
42 Tauren Warrior
0
I can't believe this.. I finally enjoy playing my class again after being the worst healer in the game and now PW:S which is the staple ability of all disc priests is getting nerfd?Why would you change PW:S? The nerf to poh was bad enough as disc.. the proc from divine aegis does not compensate for it. We need an aoe heal thats on par with other healing class abilities. Have divine aegis have a trickle down effect causing it to heal if the shield isn't absorbed or something! So far with all the changes and nerfs I don't know what my niche is. I can't be on par with an hpallys tank heals and I can't compete with a holy priests aoe heals. Where do I fit in?

If my shield's mana cost is increasing then compensate me for the mana spent through another ability. For mana returns, fiend&hoh is all I have and they need to be proccd simultaneously for them to be any good. This is a serious weakness for healing priests since stopping to use regen cooldowns defeats the purpose of having a regen cooldown. Every other class has a instant cast CD except for priests and it hurts to have to stop healing and stand there like a sitting duck in any raid/pvp scenario.

Mobility was an issue in pvp and you guys tried to fix that with a 4set bonus that has a crappy CD. In a pvp environment I need to be able to run and pillar hump to survive. Every other healing class has a movement increasing ability or way to break slows. Bubbles is all I have!! You want me to use penance? I do use it but as soon as I do I'm locked out/interrupted/silenced/kicked/ channeled heal ftl.

By all means focus on things that don't need fixing and avoid the core issues with priests and not just with disc. Stop tweaking and start fixing or adding stuff. Tweaking can only get you so far.
Edited by Danksoulja on 2/16/2011 11:14 AM PST
85 Tauren Shaman
3080
So when 1/3 rd of the Talents in Disc tree are tied in some fashion to Power Word Shield, you don't want Disc Priests to use it as much? You don't want it to be their "Go To" spell?

Do you plan on completely overhauling Mastery for Disc? Disc is a mana conservation/shield spec, with less powerful thoroughput than Holy, always has been. So now Holy will cast a spell in the Discipline tree, not feel any different than what it was for them previously? You are going to punish Disc Priests for casting the spell thier spec is built around?


^ x1000


They are balenceing the spec around 25 man raids that hardly anyone does anymore where the dpriests get fed inervates and have mana tides. If recount never changed to show absorbs with heals dpriests would be left alone, in some cases absorbs are better than heals in others they are not.
90 Dwarf Shaman
4650
02/16/2011 11:05 AMPosted by Malbolgiea
so what i see here are BUFFS to 2 of the most powerful PVP healers in the game its dam near impossible to kill a resto shaman or resto druid in PVP unless they are CC'd and trained down this reads like it will make it that much more difficult to kill them now.


Resto shaman already ate some nerfs in 4.06 for pvp. And a mage complaining about killing anything in pvp? LOL.
85 Undead Priest
6340
I'm not sure what else you want disc to use? Heal is a complete joke... Flash heal is WAY to expensive. So basically it's Gheal, PWS, and penance (cooldown)...

I think a lowering on the CD of penance will be warranted.
90 Night Elf Hunter
12320
This is why I think there should be small balancing patches more often. They would catch the client up on hotfixes as well as tweak things that can't be hotfixed. We've seen how fast your turnaround can be with patches (like in beta), so it definitely seems feasible.

I realize there would be a little risk of bugs popping up, but I think the community would gladly take that risk if balancing happened more often, but in smaller numbers (less drastic changes). It just seems that changes happen less frequent and then when they do they are big changes that drastically affect the class/spec and it's not always in a good way.

It's also quite frustrating knowing things need to be changed, but we are stuck with them for weeks on end until a patch comes along.
85 Draenei Priest
8105
If you (Blizzard) are intent on raising the mana cost of casting PW:S for Disc, and lower the cost for Holy, what about Shadow (especially for PvP)? In some sense, it is our only real heal that we can use while maintaining Shadowform and we already run into mana issues (especially when our DOTs keep getting Dispel'ed because S&P is weak) in PvP.

I feel like this change is really not thought out and as several others have pointed out, the entire Disc healing philosophy is centered around shields -- from talents to mastery. To push Disc Priests away from that would be like pushing Fire Mages away from Fire spells and into Frost when their talents and masteries buff all their Fire spells. It just doesn't make sense. If the numbers are off, then tweak the numbers (mastery, glyphs, etc.) Don't change the mana cost which affects more than just that spec.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
10125
I'm not entirely sure this will balance things out in a PVP scenario. A 15% increase in healing won't help them where they need buffs. Their susceptibility to hard swaps and overall weakness to melee classes is their real drawback.

People seem to think that shamans have a passive 10% damage reduction through Ancestral Resolve. The truth of the matter is, 90% of deaths occur when you're unable to cast via stuns, silence, etc and you lose the mitigation. The talent itself should probably be reworked.

If you're trying to bring all healers closer to the same level, shamans are going to require some sort of defensive ability. Allowing stoneclaw to be used while stunned, and having it scale would be a good start. There's nothing more disheartening than CCing a dps, only to have the healer destroy mana tide totem through the shield.

This is a step in the right direction.
85 Goblin Shaman
5085
02/16/2011 11:05 AMPosted by Malbolgiea
so what i see here are BUFFS to 2 of the most powerful PVP healers in the game its dam near impossible to kill a resto shaman or resto druid in PVP unless they are CC'd and trained down this reads like it will make it that much more difficult to kill them now.


these adjustments are made to address PVE issues only.

Another case of the two halves of the game (PvP, PvE) being almost completely incompatible.

I agree with the PvP disc priests out there-- y'all are taking it in the shorts on this one.

Increasing the mana cost was a terrible way to disincentivize shield spamming in PVE.
85 Goblin Mage
11120
02/16/2011 11:05 AMPosted by Radsteve
If recount never changed to show absorbs with heals dpriests would be left alone, in some cases absorbs are better than heals in others they are not.


It's recounts fault? Skada has displayed absorbs for all of Wrath. I remember the Twin Val'kyr fight in Trial of the Crusader. I would have upwards of 7+ million damage absorbed in 25man. That was almost 3 times more then the top healer put out.
85 Goblin Priest
7880
@Neth

Are you guys not taking into account how the PW:S change will effect shadow pvp? It already seems like shadow is mana starved after 1 minute and adding a increased mana cost to one of shadows key survivability moves is just troubling.
90 Dwarf Shaman
4650
I'm not sure what else you want disc to use? Heal is a complete joke... Flash heal is WAY to expensive. So basically it's Gheal, PWS, and penance (cooldown)...

I think a lowering on the CD of penance will be warranted.


Our healing wave is a joke as well. And healing surge sucks my mana. They are supposed to be used in different situations, we're not supposed to have 1 go to heal for every situation. That was what they wanted out of healing in Cata.
85 Blood Elf Priest
10760
02/16/2011 11:00 AMPosted by Epidra
Just when i was thinking about trying out disk,the QQers won once again. it is like blizzard is always trying to say they don't listen to these qqers, but from my experience buffs and nerfs have always followed who cried the most on the forum.


Eheheheh a Priest complaining about Shaman healing :3


show me where in that post is the name "shaman"
85 Worgen Priest
3685
Since the release of patch 4.0.6, we’ve been keeping an eye on healers and how they are performing and are currently in the process of making some additional adjustments.

Priests

The cost of Power Word: Shield is being increased by 33%. While we wanted Discipline priests to be able to utilize this spell more often and with better results, we also did not want it to be the main spell (and often the only spell) used while in groups. We don’t find this to be a particularly compelling playstyle and have found that it encourages players to avoid using other spells such as Penance. We believe that using a shield in a tight moment is totally appropriate, but we don’t want it to be incredibly efficient to do so with more frequency than that.

We realize that by making Power Word: Shield slightly more expensive for Discipline priests to cast that it might cause Holy priests to avoid using it. To that end, we are adding mana savings into the Body and Soul talent. The tooltip will not reflect this change until a future patch, however. Ideally, Holy priests should not notice much of a change to the Power Word: Shield costs.

Shaman

We are also applying a hotfix for Purification for the Restoration shaman passive from 10% to 25%. We think that shaman healing per second is not as competitive with other healers and while we hoped to bring down Holy priest and Holy paladins (in particular) in 4.0.6, which we did, shaman still appear to be behind. In this case, it is simply easier to buff Restoration shaman rather than nerf everyone else or rebalance the encounters.

In Addition- Restoration Druids and Restoration Shaman

We agree with the sentiment among some players that Restoration druids and Restoration shaman are lacking in the healing cooldown department. The shaman buff and Power Word: Shield adjustment above should bring all healers reasonably close in terms of throughput. The decision on who to bring then might end up being dictated by the strong cooldowns offered by paladins or priests. This isn’t the kind of thing we can address via a hotfix, but it is something we are looking at for the next major content patch.

As always, we appreciate your continued constructive feedback and will do our best to keep you informed of ongoing developments.


What about shadowpriests?

We already have mana issues in arena. This increases them.
Edited by Dispersez on 2/16/2011 11:13 AM PST
85 Blood Elf Priest
9030
So lemme get this straight. Buff the sheilds... and nerf the shields to probably buff the shields again after?

And what kind of disc priest doesn't use PoM? Or PoH? Or Penance? How about flash heal or Heal for the Strength of Soul talent? Anyone?!?! I can understand the irritation with the renew cost... but just shielding isn't enough. How much of the Disc healing population above 85 is doing this?

Ugh... @Druid healing & Shaman healing fixes/buffs... it's about time. Now I can start to play my 2 healers cause the way they were broken was sad.

I hope one day before the next expansion ... healers will be balanced to everyone's liking.
85 Blood Elf Priest
3275
I can't believe this.. I finally enjoy playing my class again after being the worst healer in the game and now PW:S which is the staple ability of all disc priests is getting nerfd?Why would you change PW:S? The nerf to poh was bad enough as disc.. the proc from divine aegis does not compensate for it. We need an aoe heal thats on par with other healing class abilities. Have divine aegis have a trickle down effect causing it to heal if the shield isn't absorbed or something! So far with all the changes and nerfs I don't know what my niche is. I can't be on par with an hpallys tank heals and I can't compete with a holy priests aoe heals. Where do I fit in? Mobility was an issue in pvp and you guys tried to fix that with a 4set bonus that has a crappy CD. In a pvp environment I need to be able to run and pillar hump to survive. Every other healing class has a movement increasing ability or way to break slows. Bubbles is all I have!! You want me to use penance? I do use it but as soon as I do I'm locked out/interrupted/silenced channeled heal ftl. This by all means doesn't fix the core issues with priests and not just with disc. Stop tweaking and start fixing or adding stuff. Tweaking can only get you so far.




Seriously, stop with the crap.

This change is all in all not that bad. If you were a discipline priest before the buff, then you knew how to manage your spells and you didn't spam shield anyway. Now it retains its potency but the only difference is you cannot spam it during a raid. I still heal with penance followed by G-heal. Flash heal in a pinch and I keep 3-4 targets shielded. This is not going to "kill" my mana.
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