Archaeology Items' Cooldowns

90 Human Paladin
6565
The reward does not match the effort involved. And by effort I mean simply the amount of time involved.
You dig and dig, and Ohhh! A Rare! Yay! *continue digging*
Yay! I solved it!
10 second duration.....30 minute CD...
Umm what?
Ok..... *tosses item in bank*
Maybe next time it will be something I can use more...

I just don't see the issue in vanity items being useable a lot. They don't effect anything, they don't make you able to do special things, they are just fun.
Like....the design of Cookies Tenderizer.
It's fun. I don't think they need a reason other than that.
Let us have our fun.

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100 Night Elf Druid
18970
First, thanks for listening to our feedback, I appreciate that you're willing to hear from us on subjects as silly as vanity toys.

As someone who has achieved the professor title, I would really, really love to be able to move the vanity items to other characters. I am a druid, so i already tend to hoard gear, on top of that, as a fan of many other quirky items in the game, and having played this character since launch, I have a LOT of fun items taking up bag space. I would hate to destroy anything that belongs in a museum, but that might have to happen at some point.

Even though I am one of those people who genuinely like archaeology (multiple GMs in it, Professor title, etc) I think that a lot of the fun items just aren't that fun. The ones I like the best, besides obviously appealing ones like the pets and mounts, would be the Chalice of the Mountain Kings, because its very noticeable when used, the Scarab Pendant, because its just neat to have bugs following me (would like it if they were easier to see) and of course the Bones of Transformation (and probably Blessing of the Old Gods, which I do not have, but has a similar effect). I think a longer duration would make these items more valuable to me, right now they just sit in my bags.

The other novelty items just don't have a lot of 'wow factor' and I'm not saying it needs to be a tremendous amount of wow factor, but I think right now its just not very interesting even compared to other novelty items in the game, that are less work to get as a general rule. The Arival of the Naaru, for instance, is just not very flashy compared to 4 dancing dwarf girls. Puzzle Box of Yogg-Saron is a neat idea, but I would like more than just text as the effect.

TL;DR -- the fun archaeology items that are noticeable in game are fun but could use longer durations, however the subtle items need to have more of an impact to make them showier and more fun to use. Would be great to have them BOA so I can move them to alts.
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85 Night Elf Priest
10335
Anyway, summoning a harem of scarabs can be pretty taxing on some systems, so there were some initial concerns about putting the pendant on a short cooldown. Based on the feedback we've received, though, we're looking into reducing it. We agree that the effect is pretty cool and would be nice to use it more frequently.


This is a good response, it tells us why. This explains that the cool downs are there for a valid reason... If everyone popped something at the same time it could possibly crash the players game or the server...

I wish you would do this with other responses, rather than just we want it this way, or it seems fine, or we don't see a problem..

Someone in another post mentioned this. When applying a nerf or a buff to simply explain why.

Example.. Change to Life bloom from X to Y (we found that Life Bloom was not in line with other healers. It was to high or to low by this % verses other healers)

People might not agree, but at least they get an idea where the developers are coming from.
Edited by Mystyc on 3/1/2011 9:02 AM PST
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85 Worgen Death Knight
7825
02/28/2011 6:35 PMPosted by Lylirra
As noted, we didn't want every single Archaeology item to have the same cooldown. Some of the items are pretty unique and provide interesting on-use abilities, so it made sense to us to vary things up a little


I would like to offer this out there. The Archeology items that change you into something else like the Naga, or the Bug. Their duration is way too short. Shouldn't they be about the same as the Orb of Deception / Orb of the Sin'Dori?

Possibly it is the fear I have seen Blizzard have over the years at the idea of hiding the gear you have on. So let me adress it in two parts. Part 1 - I have never liked this argument from blues because you have druids in the game, I can't see what they are wearing. Part 2 - just disable it in BGs and Arena.
Edited by Æxines on 3/1/2011 9:01 AM PST
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85 Night Elf Priest
10335
First, thanks for listening to our feedback, I appreciate that you're willing to hear from us on subjects as silly as vanity toys.

As someone who has achieved the professor title, I would really, really love to be able to move the vanity items to other characters. I am a druid, so i already tend to hoard gear, on top of that, as a fan of many other quirky items in the game, and having played this character since launch, I have a LOT of fun items taking up bag space. I would hate to destroy anything that belongs in a museum, but that might have to happen at some point.

Even though I am one of those people who genuinely like archaeology (multiple GMs in it, Professor title, etc) I think that a lot of the fun items just aren't that fun. The ones I like the best, besides obviously appealing ones like the pets and mounts, would be the Chalice of the Mountain Kings, because its very noticeable when used, the Scarab Pendant, because its just neat to have bugs following me (would like it if they were easier to see) and of course the Bones of Transformation (and probably Blessing of the Old Gods, which I do not have, but has a similar effect). I think a longer duration would make these items more valuable to me, right now they just sit in my bags.

The other novelty items just don't have a lot of 'wow factor' and I'm not saying it needs to be a tremendous amount of wow factor, but I think right now its just not very interesting even compared to other novelty items in the game, that are less work to get as a general rule. The Arival of the Naaru, for instance, is just not very flashy compared to 4 dancing dwarf girls. Puzzle Box of Yogg-Saron is a neat idea, but I would like more than just text as the effect.

TL;DR -- the fun archaeology items that are noticeable in game are fun but could use longer durations, however the subtle items need to have more of an impact to make them showier and more fun to use. Would be great to have them BOA so I can move them to alts.


Maybe they could give us specific storage for gear (PVP, PVE, RP), collectibles (gear like from ZG etc. that is not obtainable anymore), tabards, etc... Have these tabs seperate from the bags and out bank.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
11840

Anyway, summoning a harem of scarabs can be pretty taxing on some systems, so there were some initial concerns about putting the pendant on a short cooldown. Based on the feedback we've received, though, we're looking into reducing it. We agree that the effect is pretty cool and would be nice to use it more frequently.



Thanks for this, Lylirra!

...now, think you can help me open my Puzzle Box of Yogg-Saron!?

;)
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100 Undead Priest
17125

So, basically: thanks for postin'. We really appreciate this kind of feedback. If you've any additional criticisms or thoughts about Archaeology item cooldowns, please feel free to share them (constructively, of course). :)


My issue is bag space. Why would I waste my bag space on items that I can never use? 20sec out of 1.66 hours? No thanks, I'll just throw it in my bank and forget about it.

Isn't the point of the items to be fun and usable? 10-20seconds is just too little to be even worth the effort.

Now if you guys considered adding a keyring for this kind of stuff... then you'd be talking and I don't care what kind of cooldown you have because said items are not competing for bag space.
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100 Undead Priest
17125
tripple post!
Edited by Poena on 3/1/2011 10:12 AM PST
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85 Tauren Druid
13575
I'll be honest, i've spent around half a million gold on vanity items/mounts/pets, countless hours farming archaeology items. I still believe the gold spent was worth it. The reward for the time spent on archaeology is another story entirely, it has to be the most disappointing timesink i've ever had the misfortune of enduring. Yes while farming for months to get these items is my choice i don't believe the reward justifies the means anymore, but unfortunately for me i'm too far in to stop now, i maintain hope that the cooldowns for these items will be lowered substantially or the duration increased. You maintain that the numbers picked aren't arbitrary in number, and tell us you want the items to have a different cooldown than others. I simply ask why? If the true intent of these items is to have fun like you previously said, you're doing it wrong.
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Community Manager
03/01/2011 8:32 AMPosted by Setanta
Dozens of pages of constructive feedback, deeply disturbed that this bit of archaeology about cooldowns is what gets Blizzard's attention.


So, the reason I posted in this thread is actually pretty straightforward. Comparatively, the topic of Archaeology item cooldowns is pretty uncommon. It's a valid discussion, but it's not really talked about a lot, so we're interested in hearing more about what players have to say. By posting, I just wanted to thank those who had broached the topic, as well as encourage more players to weigh in with their thoughts and ideas.

Now, there may be other threads or discussions related to Archaeology out there that we haven't jump into, but that doesn't mean we're intentionally ignoring them. There are very legitimate reasons why we tend to stay out of certain discussions -- for example, we may not have any new information to communicate at the time, or the discussion itself may be really constructive and the last thing we want to do is make a post and risk changing the tone or direction of the conversation (which tends to happen a lot whenever we do post).


02/28/2011 8:50 PMPosted by Comfortabull
We just want some acknowledgment that, "Hey, we see that you guys are not having fun with the way it was implemented, so we are looking into it."


To sort of continue with Setanta's post, we know you have more overarching concerns about Archaeology. We like the current model for Archaeology, so we may not agree with all the posts we see, but we definitely feel that improvements can be made. We don't have any plans for change that we can share right now, but iterating on the profession is something we want to do.

I wish I could give you more than that after such a good post, but I hope you can at least take some comfort in knowing that we're very open to your feedback (and reading it), and that we're not opposed to meaningful changes to Archaeology in the future.
Edited by Lylirra on 3/2/2011 6:14 PM PST
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85 Troll Druid
9790
02/28/2011 5:36 PMPosted by Kaleesh
Especially when I can't even use them in Moonkin form!! D:


1000x this. I used to think it was some sort of technical limitation that prevented me from having a fun shape-shift effect while in one of my druid forms. But in the time I've been playing, I've come across at least a few buffs that stack with my druid forms. Off the top of my head: Narain's Turban, from the AQ gates quest line. I was able to enter moonkin form and keep the disguise buff, while in combat.

I absolutely love collecting these sorts of items, and I love using them. It makes me sad when I'm in a raid, the hunter next to me pops Iron Boot Flask or a Frenzyheart Brew, and I can't play along.

02/28/2011 5:15 PMPosted by Lylirra
We may not always get the values right initially, so knowing what feels good to you and what doesn't -- and why-- is really helpful.


Between the archaeology novelties having such lengthy cooldowns, breaking in combat and not stacking with my druid forms, they unfortunately just rot in my bank along with my other awesome transformation items.
Edited by Bitshift on 3/1/2011 9:15 PM PST
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90 Worgen Mage
15160
Now, there may be other threads or discussions related to Archaeology out there that we haven't jump into, but that doesn't mean we're intentionally ignoring them. There are very legitimate reasons why we tend to stay out of certain discussions -- for example, we may not have any new information to communicate at the time, or the discussion itself may be really constructive and the last thing we want to do is make post and risk changing the tone or direction of the conversation (which tends to happen a lot whenever we do post).


Let me just respond to this.

I was one of the people actively posting on both the Beta forums and the Live forums in regards to issues with Archeology. I understand that not every thread can be responded to and in fact some threads can be left alone and strictly speeaking what you say is correct however this unfortunately cannot apply to the lack of response in Archeology.

I mean this simply in this specific case the lack of responses and clarity in relation to this profession were left far too long. In my case I had been offering feedback and engaging in threads for a period of 4 months (including Beta) and not a single issue was addressed, by Blue post, or clarity in relation to upcoming changes that could be considered "nerfs" (changes not for the better) both prior to and after implementing them.

In fact, I felt so strongly about this profession being ignored (and still is) that I have given up the profession in it's entirety - none of my alts have learnt the skill and I have no intention of doing so. This was, by direct result, of sinking a ridiculous amount of time into this profession only to have every issue and complaint about the profession utterly ignored - and I am sorry but months of the issues and forum posts going unanswered cannot be explained by the usual "we do not post in every thread etc etc" response.

This has lead to many players feeling the profession is both disconnected from the player > developer and additionally that Blizzard don't really give a hoot about it. Obviously these views may not be correct but it is not my fault I have ended up here and afailing to acknowledge that this responsibility is not the players to begin with is neither helpful nor does it foster the likelyhood of better communication - especially when the communication on the forums has been subjected to blue posts recently wanting ideas on how to better improve this communication.

Ultimately, you are well aware of the length and breadth of the issues players have been posting in relation to Archeology and you must also be aware that this Blue post is the FIRST I have ever seen where a Blue poster has given any offerings as to the direction of the profession or whether Blizzard are happy with it.

None of the issues that still exist and have been posted about have even got a "look see" and judging by this response, they won't.

I am truly sorry when I say that at this stage, I do not ever see myself touching the profession again. I am sure new people to the game and new people to Archeology may be happier with the profession now and not have the stigma that was attached to those of us that began the expansion with this profession but it is hard to come to like a profession that has been and still is plagued with issues and seems to be disregarded by Blizzard posters.
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85 Tauren Druid
13575
03/01/2011 9:11 PMPosted by Virtutis
Now, there may be other threads or discussions related to Archaeology out there that we haven't jump into, but that doesn't mean we're intentionally ignoring them. There are very legitimate reasons why we tend to stay out of certain discussions -- for example, we may not have any new information to communicate at the time, or the discussion itself may be really constructive and the last thing we want to do is make post and risk changing the tone or direction of the conversation (which tends to happen a lot whenever we do post).


Let me just respond to this.

I was one of the people actively posting on both the Beta forums and the Live forums in regards to issues with Archeology. I understand that not every thread can be responded to and in fact some threads can be left alone and strictly speeaking what you say is correct however this unfortunately cannot apply to the lack of response in Archeology.

I mean this simply in this specific case the lack of responses and clarity in relation to this profession were left far too long. In my case I had been offering feedback and engaging in threads for a period of 4 months (including Beta) and not a single issue was addressed, by Blue post, or clarity in relation to upcoming changes that could be considered "nerfs" (changes not for the better) both prior to and after implementing them.

In fact, I felt so strongly about this profession being ignored (and still is) that I have given up the profession in it's entirety - none of my alts have learnt the skill and I have no intention of doing so. This was, by direct result, of sinking a ridiculous amount of time into this profession only to have every issue and complaint about the profession utterly ignored - and I am sorry but months of the issues and forum posts going unanswered cannot be explained by the usual "we do not post in every thread etc etc" response.

This has lead to many players feeling the profession is both disconnected from the player > developer and additionally that Blizzard don't really give a hoot about it. Obviously these views may not be correct but it is not my fault I have ended up here and afailing to acknowledge that this responsibility is not the players to begin with is neither helpful nor does it foster the likelyhood of better communication - especially when the communication on the forums has been subjected to blue posts recently wanting ideas on how to better improve this communication.

Ultimately, you are well aware of the length and breadth of the issues players have been posting in relation to Archeology and you must also be aware that this Blue post is the FIRST I have ever seen where a Blue poster has given any offerings as to the direction of the profession or whether Blizzard are happy with it.

None of the issues that still exist and have been posted about have even got a "look see" and judging by this response, they won't.

I am truly sorry when I say that at this stage, I do not ever see myself touching the profession again. I am sure new people to the game and new people to Archeology may be happier with the profession now and not have the stigma that was attached to those of us that began the expansion with this profession but it is hard to come to like a profession that has been and still is plagued with issues and seems to be disregarded by Blizzard posters.


My hero!



03/01/2011 9:10 PMPosted by Bitshift
Especially when I can't even use them in Moonkin form!! D:


1000x this. I used to think it was some sort of technical limitation that prevented me from having a fun shape-shift effect while in one of my druid forms. But in the time I've been playing, I've come across at least a few buffs that stack with my druid forms. Off the top of my head: Narain's Turban, from the AQ gates quest line. I was able to enter moonkin form and keep the disguise buff, while in combat.

I absolutely love collecting these sorts of items, and I love using them. It makes me sad when I'm in a raid, the hunter next to me pops Iron Boot Flask or a Frenzyheart Brew, and I can't play along.

We may not always get the values right initially, so knowing what feels good to you and what doesn't -- and why-- is really helpful.


Between the archaeology novelties having such lengthy cooldowns, breaking in combat and not stacking with my druid forms, they unfortunately just rot in my bank along with my other awesome transformation items.



This too, honestly the fact that this issue has been ignored for so long is astounding. If other druids want these changes (and we know you do) please make your voice heard!
Edited by Cryless on 3/1/2011 9:29 PM PST
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85 Orc Death Knight
7825
Look, there really is no such thing as an overpowered RP item. If you make things that do coll little "X item turns you into y thing" or "summons z non-combat pet(s)" then you should make it work for RP. This means removing the CD, allowing it during non-PvP combat, and removing any duration timers.

I really cannot fathom why there is such a lack of consideration for the practical use of RP tools, which is exactly what these items are.

My vote is that Blizz fix it as I stated.
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90 Human Paladin
0
03/01/2011 6:46 PMPosted by Lylirra
We like the current model for Archaeology, so we may not agree with all the posts we see, but we definitely feel that improvements can be made


The 60 page thread in the profession forum seems to indicate that the players don't like much about the current model. Improvements can and should be made. Respectfully Blizz, please change the profession into something fun, rather than the current punishing RNG grind that it is now.
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30 Orc Warlock
0
In regards to bag space:

What makes archeology stand out from Tabards/toys etc is that the interface for custom archeology item space already exists, in your book.
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85 Night Elf Druid
5755
Requesting 10 minute CD with like a minute duration on scarab storm so when I'm in stealth, people can see me coming and I'm all "LOL THE MUMMY"

I kinda wish scarab swarm was actually a pet as is, I'd actually use it all the time. That'd just be silly though.




Edit: I remember when slow fall cloak was on a 30 minute cooldown. It was lulz.


I vote this the best post in the thread.

Your Pal,
Jubber
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I'd be fine with the Cooldowns IF the items did only last for 20 seconds I mean really. It seems items that last for 20 secs have a 10 min Cooldowns and things that last for 30 secs have a 100 min Cooldowns well good thing my naga trinket isn't 10 sec's longer.
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