Feb 18th Hunter Hot"fixes"

85 Blood Elf Hunter
6480
02/21/2011 4:29 PMPosted by Fuzzer
This hotfix in my eyes just is going to set out the normal players from the heroic players, as the heroic players will be aspect dancing there asses off to be able to compensate for the AiS nerf. Now I know aspect dancing doesn't like a lot of work but mix that in with watching an 8 second ISS buff, your focus, your CD's, and the fight all in one, and you got yourself a headache. I know it sounds like I'm QQing about how hard my rotation is, but compare a hunter rotation to a mage rotation, and its a big gap of skill.
Takes me no skill to write macros to do the aspect shifting for me, its just another weird hunter thing we fix by using macros. Switching aspects in PvE manually for running steady shots is not something I'd call skillful to be honest, and you'd probably want some macros anyway to make sure any chimera/arcane shots you fire while running are in Hawk. Sure you could do it all manually but why bother?
90 Pandaren Hunter
16350
i think they need to nerf aimshot by half and leave aimshot! alone.

i think thats how it works for mages isnt?

maybe make it like exo for ret paladins when you get a proc you proc a instant cast free of focus and 20-40% more damage.

isnt hard to fix aimshot hardcast and aimshot!.

they need tho to remove the BS of aspect dancing, in raids there is stuff you gota look for, pay attention to your rotation, listen to vent watch for something happen then switch to fox in case you need to move and cast a steady shot or stay in hawk to shoot a couple of arcane shots to replace that aimshot hardcast that was comming in the rotation.

another thing is allow hunters to switch aspects even if you are already casting, it may not make that shot you are casting castable on the move but they next should. right now if you are casting a steady shot and you hit fox nothing will happen, you gota wait until you finish the cast to change to fox to then cast the next steady shot. maybe make the aspect something the pet does that way it dosnt interfere with the gcd of the hunter.

i kinda agree to anything that zeherah posted. the rotation of MM aimshot hardcast atm is the worse, is nice to see 60-70-80k numbers poping out of your screen every 5 sec but isnt fun when you cant mantain that as soon as you have to move 1 inch.
85 Orc Hunter
5805
wtf perrito. You were an orc like an hour ago.

I still don't see why we even need a hardcast AiS if we're all looking for ways to make it unappealing to use. Just make MMM our tree bonus and ditch the hardcast all together. Up the proc rate, make it stack to 3. Tada!
90 Pandaren Hunter
16350
wtf perrito. You were an orc like an hour ago.

I still don't see why we even need a hardcast AiS if we're all looking for ways to make it unappealing to use. Just make MMM our tree bonus and ditch the hardcast all together. Up the proc rate, make it stack to 3. Tada!


this work too, like how arcane misiles work now.

85 Orc Hunter
3520
with the scaling issue and the upper end il... Where it starts to become crap isn't the only issue. The main problem is that when someone with il 318 goes into heroics and KICKS THE CRAP out of everyone because Aspect of the hawk is OP for him. This leads to people in 346 gear coming on to these forums and complaining that hunters are OP and its rediculous and they'd be right to do so. So the problem here is that when different classes scale in different ways. People are just going to go off what theyre seeing atm. And people are going to assume that if someone is getting better gear, then theyre dps will go up at about the same rate.
85 Draenei Hunter
9415
02/22/2011 2:21 PMPosted by Grumpsh
with the scaling issue and the upper end il... Where it starts to become crap isn't the only issue. The main problem is that when someone with il 318 goes into heroics and KICKS THE CRAP out of everyone because Aspect of the hawk is OP for him. This leads to people in 346 gear coming on to these forums and complaining that hunters are OP and its rediculous and they'd be right to do so. So the problem here is that when different classes scale in different ways. People are just going to go off what theyre seeing atm. And people are going to assume that if someone is getting better gear, then theyre dps will go up at about the same rate.


If I had one guess I'd say they balked on the 2k atp on Hawk specifically because of this. To a brand new 85 Hawk is going to be retard strong. I can't think off the top of my head where this would cause anything more than a perception of imbalance in heroic dungeons, or at the lowest ratings in arenas but who knows.
85 Night Elf Hunter
2880
1) Combine AotH and AotF. Aspect of the Walrus. We don't care what you name it. Having aspects with clearly defined roles (Damage, Mobility, Utility) is a good concept. Having multiple aspects that must be constantly switched between for the same role is not.

2) Recode Aspects to work like stances, so they can be efficiently macro'd to shots. (e.g. they don't recast over and over again) This is far and away a worse choice than option #1, but anything is better than the planned implementation.
85 Worgen Hunter
5030
I suspect they are going to nerf aimed shot more after they read the simcraft coming out of EJ showing MM hunter will still be doing more DPS hard casting aimed shot and i believe that's why they wanted to nerf aimed to begin with

And sense they don't do any in house testing on their own and rely on data from us paying customer
90 Orc Hunter
3415


You should probably do one of the billion of things that can prevent an Arcane Mage from casting. Can I counterspell aimed shot now? If I stun you for two seconds does your focus reset to 0? Apples and Oranges, friend.


no, but you could root the hunter, stand in melee range, and he cant shoot you at all.
Community Manager
Reduce burst capability of marks hunters
Maintain the PvE dps of marks, while increasing the overall dps of the other two specs


That's mostly on target, but there's a little more to it. We actually had a few different goals with these hotfixes. While it’s true that we wanted to reduce Marksmanship burst in PvP, that’s only part of the story; we equally wanted to make Survival and Beast mastery more attractive choices in PvE. That involved bringing Marksmanship damage down a bit in fights where little or no movement is required, and reducing the amount of Aimed Shot spam once mobs drop below 80%.

Marksmanship's burst damage in PvP was indeed higher than we wanted, and we felt that Aimed Shot was the best place to bring burst back into line, so we've reduced its damage, including the Aimed Shot! generated by the Master Marksman proc, by about 20%. To help compensate for the loss of dps and improve Survival and Beast Mastery output, Aspect of the Hawk should now provide 2000 attack power at level 85. This will also make the talent One with Nature more powerful as well. The net effect of the change to Aspect of the Hawk should result in a buff to Survival and Beast Mastery in PvE and (in combination with the Aimed Shot nerf) a slight reduction to PvE Marksmanship dps. The changes should also make Aimed Shot less attractive once a target drops below 80% health and Careful Aim no longer applies.

This is also good time to clear up some of the confusion about hunter shot cast times. Essentially, ranged attacks in World of Warcraft have always had a built in 0.5 second delay to their cast time. Since this does not apply to instant attacks, for hunters it only really applies to Aimed Shot, Steady Shot and Cobra Shot. Prior to the 4.0.6 changes, Aimed Shot was listed with a 3.0 cast time, but due to the delay, in reality it had a cast time that amounted to 3.5 seconds. Now that it is listed at 2.4 seconds, the actual cast time is now closer to 2.9, which is where we want it to be. We realize this caused some confusion (even for us), and we’re going to see if we can make the 0.5 second delay more visible in the future.

Finally, we also wanted to let you know that Deterrence is functioning properly: Deterrence now provides 100% miss chance rather than 100% parry chance and remains in effect even if the hunter's weapon is disarmed, but it's still possible to temporarily delay a hunter’s use of Deterrence with the judicious use of disarm effects. Previously, certain attacks which could not be parried, such as Cheap Shot, would still land even when Deterrence was in effect; such attacks now shouldn't hit. In combination with some of the recent adjustments to melee mobility, Deterrence should still be more effective overall. We'll continue to keep an eye on it.
Edited by Daxxarri on 2/22/2011 6:39 PM PST
85 Blood Elf Hunter
7430
02/22/2011 5:29 PMPosted by Daxxarri
Finally, we also wanted to let you know that Deterrence is functioning properly: once in use, Deterrence cannot be canceled by disarm effects, but it remains possible to temporarily delay a hunter’s use of Deterrence with the judicious use of disarm effects. In combination with some of the recent adjustments to melee mobility, Deterrence should still be more effective overall. We'll continue to keep an eye on it.


This is the reason why Blizzard keeps getting blasted by the hunter player base.

Deterence was working PRIOR to the patch like this:

We could not be disarmed WHILE we were under the effects of deterrence.

We were promised a deterence that could be used even while disarmed. That is why I bought my PvP Polearm over the daggers. Do you realize how much misinformation you as a company have provided hunters? This matters because I could use deterence when warriors and shadow priests disarm me if I had 2 daggers.

There really is no clarity about anything. Nobody has ever relayed the message that RANGED attacks have a build in 0.5s Cast to everything.

Why is this type of information not even properly stated. As a company you really need to be ashamed of yourselves for not being in touch with the player base.

Quite frankly I am very angry with all this.
85 Orc Hunter
12485

Marksmanship's burst damage in PvP was indeed higher than we wanted, and we felt that Aimed Shot was the best place to bring burst back into line, so we've reduced its damage, including the Aimed Shot! generated by the Master Marksman proc, by about 20%. To help compensate for the loss of dps and improve Survival and Beast Mastery output, Aspect of the Hawk should now provide 2000 attack power at level 85. This will also make the talent One with Nature more powerful as well. The net effect of the change to Aspect of the Hawk should result in a buff to Survival and Beast Mastery in PvE and (in combination with the Aimed Shot nerf) a slight reduction to PvE Marksmanship dps. The changes should also make Aimed Shot less attractive once a target drops below 80% health and Careful Aim no longer applies. These changes should be live now.


Aspect of the hawk is still only giving 638 Ap
Edited by Lawlhunter on 2/22/2011 5:44 PM PST
90 Blood Elf Hunter
9345
a slight reduction to PvE Marksmanship dps


But why? Yes our DPS was high for fights that had little to no movement but with encounters such as Al'akir where there is quite a bit of moving involved you can see hunter DPS drop significantly due to this movement.
72 Goblin Warlock
570
I'm not trying to sass you, this is a genuine question. How is a static AP buff going to fix the poor scaling issues faced by BM and SV? You give us a 2k AP fix, that's good for this tier. What happens when weapon damage goes up and MM out strips BM and SV damage again?

Have you considered tweaking Steady Shot's damage? I swap to SV for AoE heavy fights and it's frankly depressing to watch 22k-ish crits with Cobra Shot and then go back to 10k crits with Steady. I understand it's balanced around the piercing shots bleed and the Wild Quiver mastery but outside of Aimed Shot MM damage feels incredibly pathetic.
85 Worgen Hunter
5115
02/22/2011 5:29 PMPosted by Daxxarri
This is also good time to clear up some of the confusion about hunter shot cast times. Essentially, ranged attacks in World of Warcraft have always had a built in 0.5 second delay to their cast time. Since this does not apply to instant attacks, for hunters it only really applies to Aimed Shot, Steady Shot and Cobra Shot. Prior to the 4.0.6 changes, Aimed Shot was listed with a 3.0 cast time, but due to the delay, in reality it had a cast time that amounted to 3.5 seconds. Now that it is listed at 2.4 seconds, the actual cast time is now closer to 2.9, which is where we want it to be. We realize this caused some confusion (even for us), and we’re going to see if we can make the 0.5 second delay more visible in the future.


Thank you for posting Daxx.

I am curious however, Cobra shot and Steady shot tooltips and casts match. There doesn't appear to be this 0.5 second disparity. It seems Aimed tooltip and actual cast time are the only ones in disagreement.

For example, my Cobra shot tooltip says 1.66 sec cast time. It takes 1.66 sec to cast.
However, Aimed shot lists 2.4 and takes 2.9 sec to cast. (unsure of the actual numbers, I am not online right now.)
1 Goblin Hunter
0
02/22/2011 5:29 PMPosted by Daxxarri
This is also good time to clear up some of the confusion about hunter shot cast times. Essentially, ranged attacks in World of Warcraft have always had a built in 0.5 second delay to their cast time. Since this does not apply to instant attacks, for hunters it only really applies to Aimed Shot, Steady Shot and Cobra Shot. Prior to the 4.0.6 changes, Aimed Shot was listed with a 3.0 cast time, but due to the delay, in reality it had a cast time that amounted to 3.5 seconds. Now that it is listed at 2.4 seconds, the actual cast time is now closer to 2.9, which is where we want it to be. We realize this caused some confusion (even for us), and we’re going to see if we can make the 0.5 second delay more visible in the future.

Wait, is that all ranged attack or ranged physical attacks?

Cause if its all ranged attacks, as a spellcaster, all i can say is.... whaaaaT??!?
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