Feb 18th Hunter Hot"fixes"

90 Draenei Hunter
12990
02/22/2011 5:43 PMPosted by Bownage
Marksmanship's burst damage in PvP was indeed higher than we wanted, and we felt that Aimed Shot was the best place to bring burst back into line, so we've reduced its damage, including the Aimed Shot! generated by the Master Marksman proc, by about 20%. To help compensate for the loss of dps and improve Survival and Beast Mastery output, Aspect of the Hawk should now provide 2000 attack power at level 85. This will also make the talent One with Nature more powerful as well. The net effect of the change to Aspect of the Hawk should result in a buff to Survival and Beast Mastery in PvE and (in combination with the Aimed Shot nerf) a slight reduction to PvE Marksmanship dps. The changes should also make Aimed Shot less attractive once a target drops below 80% health and Careful Aim no longer applies. These changes should be live now.


What is to be done about MM's sustained dps in PvP? Right now, we do an aimed shot and then a chimera and are completely OOF while we spam steady shots that crit for 2k, much larger changes need to be done than a non-scaling "fix" to hawk. Mainly, we need steady shot to have armor penetration so it can have similar damage to cobra shot. While it wouldn't be near cobra shot damage due to mastery in the SV tree, right now steady shot damage in PvP is laughable.

Aspect of the hawk should be a % of RaP. This change is going to make SV very powerful while under geared, AGAIN.. Which is exactly why you nerfed it.

Also, the changes are not live right now.
QFT. Hunters have historically dominated early on because our base damage is way too high, but we've never scaled well (see: Classic, when, pre-ranged weapon buff, there was a net gain of about 11 weapon from Striker's Mark off Magmadar and Nerubian Slavemaker off Kel'thuzad). Crit is really the only stat all 3 specs scale well with (Mastery is is a distant 3rd for Marks while Haste is very good, while Haste is worth about 66% of Mastery for BM and SV).

I'm going to say it right now...nerf the crap out of the base damage on Explosive Shot and Black Arrow, but greatly increase their RAP scaling. BM and SV barely touch weapon damage for their basic attacks (Cobra, Kill, and Auto Shot), so that's a major itemization gap in 2 specs (and why MM took off in Wrath mid-T8). Survival dominated early Cata because of this fact, got gutted in the wrong places, and then gets another static just-dinged-85-gonna-dominate-now buff.

Every other self-buff in the game is a percentage of damage, haste, resource regen, etc. Why is Hawk the only outlier? A 10% damage increase would be fine, although all 3 specs suffer heavily from movement (Survival loses Sniper Training, BM has to deal with pet pathing/AI issues, and MM has to deal with losing hard-cast Aimed Shots), so it wouldn't be ideal given the current design of encounters.
86 Goblin Hunter
3145
Heya Daxx, just have a quick question. I love the game you made and think its getting better with each patch =)

My question is, what are Blizzard's plans to fix hunters in arenas?
90 Blood Elf Hunter
9345
Aspect of the hawk is still only giving 638 Ap


Thanks blizz, gonna love being on the bottom of the meters for tonight, hopefully you can fix it within the next few weeks.
85 Night Elf Hunter
4775
02/22/2011 5:29 PMPosted by Daxxarri
To help compensate for the loss of dps and improve Survival and Beast Mastery output, Aspect of the Hawk should now provide 2000 attack power at level 85.


This isn't in the game.
90 Orc Hunter
10060
Both the buff to Hawk and the nerf to Aimed Shot are not implemented yet, so it'll be just be the same.
100 Worgen Hunter
11445
02/22/2011 5:29 PMPosted by Daxxarri
Essentially, ranged attacks in World of Warcraft have always had a built in 0.5 second delay to their cast time. Since this does not apply to instant attacks


The Multi-Shot of every version of the game but Cata would like to have a word with you on this one.

But seriously this post reeks of Press Release smooth over BS. I know we beg and plead and complain about how we never receive a blue post for anything, but when this is the quality of the ones we receive its just amazing to me. I feel like this was typed/read directly from prepared notecards by a lawyer.

You've successfully provided us with ZERO new information or even a logical explanation of things that aren't even currently working according to how your patch notes said they would. Meanwhile you simultaneously tried a cover up/smooth over of stuff that should have been adressed WEEKS ago. The deterrence thing and 0.5 cast time are just unbelievable to me though. For me to even come anywhere close to believing this and thinking you guys have any clue what you're doing, do yourselves a favor and start adressing things immediately so you don't look like you're going "Umm ummm, we have to say something. Tom had a law degree right? Have him whip up some PC bs to tie them over until we distract them with the next kneejerk nerf/buff."

You want a small tip for one thing? People aren't using your wanted "focus dump" of arcane shot for one main reason. It doesn't proc piercing shots. Add that to piercing shots if you want people to even look in its direction.
Edited by Reolas on 2/22/2011 6:07 PM PST
90 Blood Elf Hunter
9345
02/22/2011 6:01 PMPosted by Grafix
Except, these hot fixes ARE NOT LOVE and aspct still only gives 700 AP


I think the AiS nerf is live, just not the aspect.
85 Orc Hunter
12485
02/22/2011 6:07 PMPosted by Fuzzer
Except, these hot fixes ARE NOT LOVE and aspct still only gives 700 AP


I think the AiS nerf is live, just not the aspect.


Its been like that since they announced the changes last week iirc.

On dummies unbuffed i could crit for 45k with aimed, after the announced changes only 37ish
Community Manager
02/22/2011 6:01 PMPosted by Lefuza
To help compensate for the loss of dps and improve Survival and Beast Mastery output, Aspect of the Hawk should now provide 2000 attack power at level 85.


This isn't in the game.


Noted, I misunderstood some information and jumped the gun. They should be live soon, however.
90 Worgen Hunter
2290
Are you aware how the change to aspect of the hawk promotes stance dancing for hunters again in PVP? This was a mechanic you wanted to avoid in WotLK by introducing Dragonhawk, a combination of monkey and hawk. Now its returned and its annoying.

I really hope the Hawk buff is a temporary fix until you can get better changes in for a later patch such as possibly pet armor penetration for BM, higher steady shot damage for MM, and better black arrow and explosive shot damage for Surv. These are all areas in their respective specs that need help, and benefit both in PVP and PVE.
Edited by Hollowpoint on 2/22/2011 6:13 PM PST
Community Manager


Finally, we also wanted to let you know that Deterrence is functioning properly: once in use, Deterrence cannot be canceled by disarm effects, but it remains possible to temporarily delay a hunter’s use of Deterrence with the judicious use of disarm effects. In combination with some of the recent adjustments to melee mobility, Deterrence should still be more effective overall. We'll continue to keep an eye on it.


Deterrence was never, ever, EVER able to be cancelled by disarm effects. This is a CHEAP answer to the fact that we cannot deterrence while disarmed. You give us a blatant NERF and try to call it a buff?

I don't know if you noticed... but we are at the bottom of the bottom in arenas. Nerfs aren't what we need.


In the past Deterrence provided 100% parry, which could only be performed with a melee weapon equipped. Now it provides 100% miss chance, which means that your avoidance will still work.

The real issue is that some attacks, especially rogue attacks like Cheap Shot, could not be parried. Therefore a rogue could Cheap Shot through Deterrence, which totally countered the intent of Deterrence as a melee defense. With this change, Cheap Shot should correctly miss a hunter under Deterrence.

Wait, is that all ranged attack or ranged physical attacks?

Cause if its all ranged attacks, as a spellcaster, all i can say is.... whaaaaT??!?


It applies to attacks based on the ranged weapon slot. Those are not the same as spells, and this largely applies to hunters. Other non-spell ranged attacks in the game tend to use the melee weapon (like Shattering Throw) or are instant (like Fan of Knives).
90 Orc Hunter
11735
02/22/2011 6:11 PMPosted by Daxxarri
Noted, I misunderstood some information and jumped the gun. They should be live soon, however.


Thank you for clarifying. Hopefully these will go in tonight/tomorrowish?
100 Worgen Hunter
11445
02/22/2011 6:11 PMPosted by Grafix
you know this game is fial when blizzard doesnt even know their own changes arent live


With their current track record it'll probably get the same nerf twice because of that and pop back down to 100% weapon damage. On the bright side Aspect of the Hawk will now provide FOUR THOUSAND attack power!
85 Orc Hunter
10195
Finally, we also wanted to let you know that Deterrence is functioning properly: once in use, Deterrence cannot be canceled by disarm effects, but it remains possible to temporarily delay a hunter’s use of Deterrence with the judicious use of disarm effects. In combination with some of the recent adjustments to melee mobility, Deterrence should still be more effective overall. We'll continue to keep an eye on it.


Rofl this is definitely on par with the whole steady shot/cobra shot haste thing. This is exactly how deterrence functioned before. What are we going to get next patch, Aspect of the Fox now allows steady shot and cobra shot to be cast while moving?
90 Dwarf Hunter
14760

Marksmanship's burst damage in PvP was indeed higher than we wanted, and we felt that Aimed Shot was the best place to bring burst back into line, so we've reduced its damage, including the Aimed Shot! generated by the Master Marksman proc, by about 20%.


I realize you guys don't typically comment on exact formula details, but given we've been waiting on this fix for several days and are still in the dark as to the exact nature of the aimed shot formula change, I was hoping you could clarify.

The hotfix notes stated the weapon damage multiplier was being reduced to 160%. Is this the only change being made? Or is the formula being adjusted to only apply the weapon damage multiplier to the weapon damage portion of the formula (as it is in most shots) rather than also affecting the RAP and base damage portions? (as seems to be the case currently) Any clarification you could give would be much appreciated, as it makes a fairly large difference in our analysis of how the changes will affect MM dps.
02/22/2011 6:07 PMPosted by Fuzzer
Except, these hot fixes ARE NOT LOVE and aspct still only gives 700 AP


I think the AiS nerf is live, just not the aspect.
Nope, AiS isn't live, either. Tooltip still says 200% damage.
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