Unholy PVE Guide (5.2)

90 Gnome Death Knight
16415
Frost dps at single target is bigger than unholy, frost dps at aoe ... no comments xD
I played as unholy at cata, its was fun, fun pvp, the only problem was me.
But at mop... omg the diference at unholy is brutal!! Even at single target dps. Betters dks leaved unholy too.
I have done like 300 matchs at arena 2x and i never saw an unholy dk, NEVER, i mean really really never, at mop.
I heard frost dk will be nerfed (obliterate will do less damage), but that is not an solution for the payers who leaved dk unholy, the solution is improve some unholy skills to ppl pvp with him again. Like death coil, imporve the damage or critical chance.
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100 Orc Warlock
13535
I stopped reading this guide when the OP said to avoid Glyph of Outbreak. At the cost of 1 1/4 of a death coil and a potential loss of DT uptime, you can multi dot. Deathcoil in my current gear, while good, does not do NEARLY the damage of two dots with 30 sec uptime. Situations I've found this glyph extremely useful so far:
Will of the emperor: in between each devestating combo, run out 5 yards (or if youre really pro do it during a DC) and outbreak the other boss. if you cant see how this is a massive dps increase, you should respec frost or reroll warrior.
Elegon: Multidotting the add if you're not assigned to directly dps it.
Garalon: Dotting the far legs if you're assigned to stay on one side of the boss.
Sha of Fear: Multi dotting when adds are out of pestilance range (and reapplying dots on boss when you're out of range)

I won't say its great on every fight, its not, but when used properly in skilled hands, it is extremely effective. OP I would petition for you to consider editing that portion of your guide with this information.
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55 Goblin Death Knight
4705
Glyph of Outbreak is truly awful. Just throw out a Pestilence/BB if you wanna dot !@#$. And you can Pestilence spread as both specs on Ele. You're greatly underestimating the cost of 40 RP for OB.
Edited by Jäckßäuer on 2/10/2013 12:18 AM PST
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100 Orc Warlock
13535
What about will of the emperor where the target is too far away? Or other such fights? In my limited raid experience on my very recently max level DK, I've had very few issues staying competitive with people who signifcantly out gear me by knowing when and how to use all of my class's abilities and glyphs to maximize output.
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90 Human Death Knight
12440
02/10/2013 08:53 PMPosted by Kakkarotftw
What about will of the emperor where the target is too far away? Or other such fights? In my limited raid experience on my very recently max level DK, I've had very few issues staying competitive with people who signifcantly out gear me by knowing when and how to use all of my class's abilities and glyphs to maximize output.


Unholy Blight would likely be a better choice for Multi Dotting in that way, when you use the outbreak glyph for it you are not just losing the Death Coil damage you are also losing the Shadow Infusion stacks and your preferred 75 talent procs.
Edited by Ryudaraku on 2/17/2013 12:52 AM PST
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100 Blood Elf Death Knight
11895
What about will of the emperor where the target is too far away? Or other such fights? In my limited raid experience on my very recently max level DK, I've had very few issues staying competitive with people who signifcantly out gear me by knowing when and how to use all of my class's abilities and glyphs to maximize output.


Unholy Blight would likely be a better choice for Multi Dotting in that way, when you use the outbreak glyph for it you are not just losing the Death Coil damage you are also losing the Shadow Infusion stacks and your preferred 75 talent procs.


Yes, as Ryudaraku explains, Glyph of Outbreak is frowned upon because we have other tools in our skill box that are much more effective for achieving the same goal. Runic Power isn't always monopolized, true, but it's important to look at this from the perspective of opportunity cost with the presence of viable alternatives.
Edited by Heartless on 3/5/2013 7:23 PM PST
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100 Undead Death Knight
13770
So Crit still outweighs Mastery now, eh? Even with the Gargoyle now doing partial Shadow damage (benefitting from Mastery) and Scourge Strike dealing more damage (thus the Shadow portion getting bigger too). How does the Forsaken's "Touch of the Grave" racial figure into the equation as well, since it does Shadow damage and is thus buffed by our Mastery.
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90 Human Death Knight
12440
So Crit still outweighs Mastery now, eh? Even with the Gargoyle now doing partial Shadow damage (benefitting from Mastery) and Scourge Strike dealing more damage (thus the Shadow portion getting bigger too). How does the Forsaken's "Touch of the Grave" racial figure into the equation as well, since it does Shadow damage and is thus buffed by our Mastery.


Mastery doesn't affect the larger portion of Scourge Strike, our melee swings, or anything our ghoul does. All the mastery affected things also benefit from crit as well.
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90 Human Rogue
12895
I'm lost, a few other sources are saying to gem straight haste unless a hybrid is called for for a strong bonus. :( halp please.
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100 Draenei Death Knight
13560
I'm lost, a few other sources are saying to gem straight haste unless a hybrid is called for for a strong bonus. :( halp please.

A few other sources must be wrong then.

That being said, are any DKs here around the point where Crit starts taking over Haste? Right now my sims are showing that I get more DPS per point into Crit vs Haste. Anybody else running into these problems?
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
NI
10290
03/13/2013 10:57 PMPosted by Serrias
I'm lost, a few other sources are saying to gem straight haste unless a hybrid is called for for a strong bonus. :( halp please.

A few other sources must be wrong then.

That being said, are any DKs here around the point where Crit starts taking over Haste? Right now my sims are showing that I get more DPS per point into Crit vs Haste. Anybody else running into these problems?


WARNING: this information is based on the fact that Serrias is 507ilevel at the time of this post
Your problem is that your running Runic Corruption. As matron heartless said, Runic Corruption starts to get overtaken by Runic Empowerment and Blood Tap. This makes sense because increasing the regeneration of your runes when you already have enough haste from your gear to make your GCD capped without the extra rune regen.
I suggest Bloodtap since it scales better the Empowerment and is less intimidating then it actually looks.

EDIT: Blood tap macros are bad
Edited by Bonjwa on 4/9/2013 5:48 AM PDT
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90 Draenei Priest
6905
Thanks for making this very clean and organized, very helpful and efficient. (:
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90 Pandaren Monk
12015
It is quite funny that after every patch someone will post how Heartless stole the guide from EJ.
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90 Gnome Death Knight
16415
Things changed now, we are not in 5.0 anymore, and unholy is an good choice now^^
But im having an problem with reforge, with hit/exp cap>mastery>haste>crit, ive done more dps at dummy than hit/exp cap>haste>crit>mastery.
And i dont see how mastery is worst than crit. And Death Syphon has more damage than Scourge Strike, even in my try with haste>crit>mastery, with high mastery Death Syphon its the best for dps i think.
But im confused, help me a little bit here. Is askmrrobot wrong? Mastery>haste>crit? Or Haste>crit>mastery (second mrrobot words)?
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
NI
10290
Things changed now, we are not in 5.0 anymore, and unholy is an good choice now^^
But im having an problem with reforge, with hit/exp cap>mastery>haste>crit, ive done more dps at dummy than hit/exp cap>haste>crit>mastery.
And i dont see how mastery is worst than crit. And Death Syphon has more damage than Scourge Strike, even in my try with haste>crit>mastery, with high mastery Death Syphon its the best for dps i think.
But im confused, help me a little bit here. Is askmrrobot wrong? Mastery>haste>crit? Or Haste>crit>mastery (second mrrobot words)?


Death Siphon costs a death rune, so you still have to spend 2/6 of your runes no matter what on SS because reaping doesn't convert Unholy runes into death runes. Scourge Strike's mastery scaling is pretty bad to a good portion of it being physical damage. So lets say you have 30% mastery, well your increasing the damage of ~40% of your scourge strike's damage by 30%. Now lets do the math: 0.30x0.40=0.12 or 12% damage increase on scourge strike from 30% mastery which is 18000 Mastery - Base Mastery (30x600, 600 mastery = 1%). On top of that Festering strike, auto attacks, Timmy, and Army dont scale with mastery. Every spell we have can crit.
Haste is just plain too good for Dks
-Faster Rune Regen
-More Autoattacks = More Sudden Doom = Faster/Better Uptime DT and more effective tier 5 talents
-All pets scale with haste aswell

Death Siphon is terrible for dps, death pact costs nothing and heals nearly 70% of your HP.

Unholy Stat weights calculated by the amazing Mendenbarr are below
http://elitistjerks.com/f72/t130584-unholy_dps_5_2_thunderstruck/p4/
Edited by Bonjwa on 4/9/2013 9:36 PM PDT
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90 Worgen Death Knight
15050
Hi, I had a question about how to turn a single blood or a single frost rune back into a death rune in the middle of a fight. If there's more than 1 target to hit, I assume you'd use the single blood rune on blood boil to turn it back into a death rune. But if it's just single target, do you wait for one of the death runes to pop back up and then use a festering strike that would consume the blood and death rune? or should you just not wait at all and use the single blood on a blood boil. Also the same question for a frost rune and using icy touch or waiting for a festering strike.

Sorry if it's kind of hard to understand what i'm asking, i'm not the best at putting what's in my head into words..

Thanks in advance!

(p.s., Heartless, I love your guide, i've been using it from EJ since cata, awesome stuff)
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90 Orc Death Knight
16105
Hey guys!
I have a great doubt as to merge items in this new patch ..
It really is worth it to use 4 pieces of tier (normal 522) and earn your bonus, equal to using right now I just look at my armory ..
or would it be better to take some heroic pieces (535) / thunderforged (528) or even heroic thunderforged (541).

Type the chest that drops the jin'rok and legs which drops the horridon, either 535 or 541.

It's worth breaking the 4 piece bonus of tier normal mode and just use the 2 piece bonus along with 3 pieces without being tier, but being 528/535/541?

I tried to look for something in some forums but did not find anything .. I think only testing in simcraft same ..

Been a while that I have this doubt, excuse anything, and my bad english ..
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100 Human Death Knight
15260
Hi, I had a question about how to turn a single blood or a single frost rune back into a death rune in the middle of a fight. If there's more than 1 target to hit, I assume you'd use the single blood rune on blood boil to turn it back into a death rune. But if it's just single target, do you wait for one of the death runes to pop back up and then use a festering strike that would consume the blood and death rune? or should you just not wait at all and use the single blood on a blood boil. Also the same question for a frost rune and using icy touch or waiting for a festering strike.

Sorry if it's kind of hard to understand what i'm asking, i'm not the best at putting what's in my head into words..

Thanks in advance!

(p.s., Heartless, I love your guide, i've been using it from EJ since cata, awesome stuff)


In single target situations you should save blood-frost runes for Festering strike. This way you keep your diseases on the target long enough for outbreak to come back up. The reason SS>FS in priority is not because SS hits harder then FS but because SS hits harder per a rune used. FS still hits damn hard though. A blood boil and a Icy touch will not do as much damage as a FS.

Hey guys!
I have a great doubt as to merge items in this new patch ..
It really is worth it to use 4 pieces of tier (normal 522) and earn your bonus, equal to using right now I just look at my armory ..
or would it be better to take some heroic pieces (535) / thunderforged (528) or even heroic thunderforged (541).

Type the chest that drops the jin'rok and legs which drops the horridon, either 535 or 541.

It's worth breaking the 4 piece bonus of tier normal mode and just use the 2 piece bonus along with 3 pieces without being tier, but being 528/535/541?

I tried to look for something in some forums but did not find anything .. I think only testing in simcraft same ..

Been a while that I have this doubt, excuse anything, and my bad english ..


Our tier bonus' this patch are pretty amazing and in general I would think its best to the keep them, but Thunderforged items makes theorycrafting tricky because its hard to count on them dropping.
For a 522 to 535 or 535 to 541 I would defintely say that the teir comes out ahead, but a 522 to 541 the extra stats may be better but you would need four 541 ilevel perfectly itemized items to compensate for the lost bonus'. This is all speculation though. Best suggestion is that you just use simcraft,

"when in doubt, sim it!"
-mendenbarr
Edited by Wheva on 4/22/2013 5:04 AM PDT
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90 Human Death Knight
12440
03/13/2013 10:57 PMPosted by Serrias
I'm lost, a few other sources are saying to gem straight haste unless a hybrid is called for for a strong bonus. :( halp please.

A few other sources must be wrong then.

That being said, are any DKs here around the point where Crit starts taking over Haste? Right now my sims are showing that I get more DPS per point into Crit vs Haste. Anybody else running into these problems?


With the new RPPM system I am not sure how this would happen, as our New meta, and one of our set bonuses go off the PPM system and are to my understanding are affected by haste.
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100 Draenei Death Knight
13560
04/24/2013 12:23 PMPosted by Ryudaraku

A few other sources must be wrong then.

That being said, are any DKs here around the point where Crit starts taking over Haste? Right now my sims are showing that I get more DPS per point into Crit vs Haste. Anybody else running into these problems?


With the new RPPM system I am not sure how this would happen, as our New meta, and one of our set bonuses go off the PPM system and are to my understanding are affected by haste.

Yeah it's not worth it. RotFC alone gives us a high value for Haste, the combining RPPM trinkets, the set bonus, and the meta, Haste is now lol.
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