Stop complaining about ZA and ZG

85 Worgen Druid
3225
03/01/2011 2:38 PMPosted by Zarhym
Srsly? Jefferey kaplan moved to Titan and he was a GOOD developer

Great point. Your evidence that there was a sudden exodus from the WoW development team comes from knowing for a fact that one developer moved off the WoW team over two years ago. :)


Can we get him back? WotLK was a joke and Cataclysm is following the same trend.

Please scrap Ghostcrawler.

Please give us CMs that talk to the community. We miss people like Caydiem.

Seperate PvE and PvP.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
3320
Ok, I'm just going to say this....Zarhym, please tell the developers good job from me. I'm in college learning how to create games right now, and although I don't know how many people work on WoW, at this point in my learning curve it would take my friends and I years to do what ya'll do in a few months.

As for the topic at hand, I'm perfectly fine with re-using previous content especially if it will add to the lore (as it was stated it will). I'm fine with having to take things slow to be able to switch from normal/heroic/raid although making the new dungeons require a higher gear level means there will be more elitest ##!@@ing in the coming months.
@OP. Please knock it off with the BC servers. That particular little subject has been discussed to death and very logical and sound reasons given for not doing it.

Now then,
I can understand your point Zarhym, and I agree with you on one hand that making old content relavent again is a good thing. On the other hand, though, given everything else that has been going on in this expansion (The complaints for lack of new content, the nerfing of gold from old content to lose the incentive to solo the old raids, and what feels like a push-pull filing system that Blizzard is trying to shuffle the players in to, along with many other issues) bringing these two back is probably being handled at the wrong time. This is a time to add 100% new things with ZA/ZG added when people are proverbially stuffed on the turkey.

Adding the content like this feels like...Well forgive me for quoting Pink Floyd...

Another brick in the wall.

Please understand. I'm all for making old content relavent, but I feel that this is the wrong time to do it.
Edited by Saraliana on 3/1/2011 8:26 PM PST
100 Human Mage
14445

Revisiting a raid you destroyed? I don't think you know why you were originally called to enter Zul'Gurub or Zul'Aman. I don't think you know much of anything about the Zandalari or their past.

But not to worry! You'll have plenty additional lore about the Zandalari, Gurubashi, and Amani tribes to ignore in 4.1. :p


Ooh! Ooh! I know! The blood god Hakkar was being brought physically into this realm by the efforts of the different troll tribe shaman who had their mojo being used against their will! The Hakkari tribe was ultimately the one responsible for this, having been stifled, briefly, by a plucky group of heroes who went into this temple in the Swamp of Sorrows to mess up their prior resurrection/conjuring ritual.

Okay I dunno Zul'Aman as well. This one-armed troll guy was all angry and decided to use animal god totems to infuse his priests with power to snuff out civilization across northern Azeroth?
1 Gnome Rogue
0

Tell us what you do and do not like about the game. That's fine. But stop making up justifications and perpetuating nonsense with the hope it'll somehow make you seem more persuasive and knowledgeable.


I, along with many others, do not like recycled content. Pretty much all of Vanilla has been recycled at this point. Heroics, zones, raids. If you want to talk about "making up justifications" saying that you're not developing new content in order to "move the story forward" that has been going on for 6 years.... maybe you should have thought about that instead of the gigantic waste of time that BC was from a story-line point of view (I would consider that more than an opinion as several times over the years it's been stated by Bliz that Outlands was essentially a "swing and a miss" so to speak). Instead now, those of us who have been here since the start get to essentially go back and do all the same stuff with shiny new packaging that, honestly, we should have done long ago.

I, along with many others, do not like the extreme state of disarray that the games state of "balance" is in, in both pvp and pve, the homogenization of many of the classes, the complete lack of effort into others from a development point of view, the imbalance of lower level brackets, the imbalance of hybrids vs pures and healers/tank vs dps.

Exactly how much clearer would you like it pointed out? Because there's hundreds of threads saying the exact same thing, many proposing solutions and garnering 10-20+ pages of support, that are deleted, locked, or ignored (you can say you guys read "everything" but the lack of responses in most relevant threads vs the amount of responses to "what's your favorite movie" type threads shows where most of the CS/Dev responses are and combined with the lack of changes or implementation of suggestions, even if remade by Bliz for "balance", lends to the feeling of being ignored - but hey, props for plugging J!nx).
85 Tauren Warrior
4870

Tell us what you do and do not like about the game. That's fine. But stop making up justifications and perpetuating nonsense with the hope it'll somehow make you seem more persuasive and knowledgeable.


No offence, (and I'm trying to mean this in a very civil way), but I kinda doubt you understand how arguments work in the 'interwebs'... it kinda happens alot more than you would want to even imagine...
85 Troll Priest
8845

Tell us what you do and do not like about the game. That's fine. But stop making up justifications and perpetuating nonsense with the hope it'll somehow make you seem more persuasive and knowledgeable.

No offence, (and I'm trying to mean this in a very civil way), but I kinda doubt you understand how arguments work in the 'interwebs'... it kinda happens alot more than you would want to even imagine...

Er, that isn't an excuse for anything.

And I'm pretty sure he's exactly aware of how things on the Internet and these boards typically operate.
90 Goblin Rogue
12660
Can we keep complaining about rag's legs?
85 Troll Druid
11130
Zul'Aman is in Ghostlands, which is in Azeroth, not Outland. It's true Ghostlands didn't receive any terrain changes after the Cataclysm, but that doesn't mean the remaining Amani are unaffected by what's happened.

We'll have more information to share on the return of Zul'Aman and Zul'Gurub soon. But for now I'll say this: there is a center of troll civilization yet to be seen in World of Warcraft. There was once an ancient empire of troll tribes united. Zul'Aman and Zul'Gurub becoming key points of interest in Cataclysm plays into this. Perhaps something has happened to once again call for the unity of the disaffected tribes. Perhaps a certain tribe with allegiances elsewhere sees this as a very bad thing. ;)

Altering a certain piece of content from a world(TBC) that has still been unaffected by the cataclysm sure is a backwards way of "Evolving".

I'd honestly just call it being lazy, as the idea of simply revamping old content instead of making new, original content to sink our teeth into is lazy in itself.


You sir, have left me a little dumbfounded, if I read that post correctly, are you possibly hinting at that "new" troll raid we've been hoping for? I don't mean ZG/ZA being that raid, and I pretty sure you can't actually answer that. But thats really how I interpreted that comment.

I basicly read that as, A new mysterious troll tribe has possible allegiances to Deathwing, with a possible raid? I really hope so, but then again i'm HONESTLY happy about Zul'gurub/Zul'Aman coming back, and the "new" Bear/Tiger/Raptor that were mentioned.
90 Dwarf Paladin
10890
From a logical PoV, I totally support the reuse of 'old' zones and instances.

1) Azeroth has a finite amount of landspace,
Nearly all of it is occupied by a race, faction or group of some sort,

So lets say you and your 50 buddies from the local D&D club wanted to set up a base somewhere,
you can either find an unoccupied area in azeroth that fits your needs,
or attempt to evict an existing group and take their area.

clearly you want to avoid self-death, so picking a fight with some peeps and taking their home is risky business.
there's very little empty land in azeroth, you might find an island somewhere, maybe.
or you could find an area where the inhabitant have already been evicted and no one's taken their place (by raiders usually)

If you go with the new land approach, you've got no plans and no real expertise at building a city; you and your buddies will literally be winging it, building whatever you could manage and maybe improve it over time, it would be a lot of hard work.
(don't even contemplate hollowing a mountain for a base, it's unimaginable for beginners)

Old ruins however, they're existing structures which have remained standing uninhabited, it's a lot easier to patch up a ruin to make it livable, than to start fresh at ground zero.

This is why for example Grim Batol, originally built by wildhammer dwarfs - who had the manpower, resources and expertise to build it,
they were evicted by an evil taint caused by inter-dwarf feuding.
the dragonmaw clan, saw it as a good base of operation and set up shop there.
they were evicted by the red dragons.
Twilight hammer took up residence there, and they are its current occupants.

In each case, a group were evicted due to inter-group hostility,
the area was left abandoned,
another group saw an easy home / base and took it over.

that's exactly what's happening in ZA & ZG
big empty areas don't stay empty for long while there's demand for their use.
90 Undead Priest
7490
Zarhym you are my hero.

He just beat your whining argument down, civil-style! :D
03/01/2011 6:47 PMPosted by Scarletfever
blizzard-when someone has a bad day you are supposed to send them home from work or at least give them extra paperwork and sit them in a back room-that way them having a very silly and pointless immature argument doesn't happen in front of the world to embarrass you


Using "-"s as universal punctuation makes you silly and pointless. Also, I'm pretty sure Zar hasn't embarrassed Blizzard at all, just the stooge OP and a few other posters in this thread.
03/01/2011 8:16 PMPosted by Arjác

Great point. Your evidence that there was a sudden exodus from the WoW development team comes from knowing for a fact that one developer moved off the WoW team over two years ago. :)


Can we get him back? WotLK was a joke and Cataclysm is following the same trend.

Please scrap Ghostcrawler.

Please give us CMs that talk to the community. We miss people like Caydiem.

Seperate PvE and PvP.


Pretty sure with just about every CM that has tried to "Talk to the community" has only resulted in them receiving a lot of raging posters. This usually leads to them having to "back off" of posting.
100 Human Mage
7045
My GAWD people! Its not a rehashed raid. It CLEARLY says:

"Originally a 20-player dungeon released in patch 1.7, Zul'Gurub will once again open its gates, featuring updated lore, all-new encounters, achievements, and improved loot! Zul'Gurub is now a level-85 five-player Heroic difficulty dungeon.

Ever a player favorite, the level-70 ten-player dungeon of Zul'Aman is being reintroduced as a level-85 Heroic five-player dungeon."

Its just gonna be a totally NEW 5 man instance, with some scenery we've already seen. Okay? Geez. Its not like Naxx or Onyxia in Wotlk. Its like Heroic Deadmines sort of. Its a whole new experience!

Blizz, I really suggest you make a front page post that clearly states its a new 5 man and not a new raid. @_@ Even the people defending it have no idea its not a rehashed raid!
Edited by Bombmagic on 3/1/2011 9:00 PM PST
100 Dwarf Hunter
14340
Love how people complain about recycleing "old" content but you still see MC/Kara/Sunwell raids forming in trade chat all the time. As far as the new and yes they are new ZA and ZG content coming all i can say is hurray and thank you blizzard for advanceing story lines. Seems like most of the WoW player base don't even follow story lines and lore. They probably don't even read or pay attention to in game text drama either. Can't even begin to count how many times during wrath we would go to kill the lich king and someone in the raid asks "Who is that guy in the chains up there?"
85 Troll Hunter
3620
There's a lot of new content in Cataclysm. There's also a plethora of updated content to advance the story.

Likewise, there's plenty of new content still to come in this expansion. But, we're also going to keep moving existing themes forward when the story calls for it. There were specific reasons for originally entering Zul'Gurub and Zul'Aman, but those reasons by no means wrap up the story of the ancient troll empire. These city ruins still serve a major purpose in troll lore, beyond just providing new locations to gain loot.

We're moving the story of the troll nations forward, and hope you recognize and enjoy that. Hakkar and Zul'jin are gone now. Even so, that doesn't make Zul'Gurub and Zul'Aman irrelevant as key locations of Azeroth.


As a troll player I support this,
Again I also support the fact that Blizzard is paying attention to revamping the old content, I also feel that I should be able to play every instance at heroic level, as I enjoy many of them and wish I could find them challenging on this character again.

Ever considered what it would be like if Random Heroics were actually random of all the instances and not just the three you've been grinding for two months? There's a reason I rarely play and that's because I hate dungeon grinding, Wrath killed that experience for me, when every dungeon felt exactly the same, It was just mages, dragons and zombies.

Now we have trolls, elementals, pirates, pygmies, naga and a few other things, I'd love to see more instances revamped, even the wrath ones in the chunk, make me feel like my character has PTSD, I don't care, but make everything have a top level heroic equivalent I say, and keep pumping out fresh content, because honestly I'd love to see this.
85 Human Priest
1910
03/01/2011 8:58 PMPosted by Bombmagic
Its just gonna be a totally NEW 5 man instance, with some scenery we've already seen. Okay? Geez. Its not like Naxx or Onyxia in Wotlk. Its like Heroic Deadmines sort of. Its a whole new experience!


ZA has the same bosses except the last boss. Almost same trash packs.
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