Blizzard what are your intentions with disc?

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85 Blood Elf Priest
10125
03/01/2011 1:28 PMPosted by Lylirra
it is being made very obvious that you just dont want us to cast shield at all. unfortunately there are several talents and a mastery devoted to a spell that you dont want us casting. so what is the point? what are your intentions with this spec/with this class?


We want Power Word: Shield, Power Word: Barrier, and Divine Aegis to continue to be an important part of a Discipline priest's rotation. We want you to use those spells frequently.


So....you increase the CD on one of these spells you want us to use frequently?

03/01/2011 1:28 PMPosted by Lylirra
The changes we've made through hotfixes and those that we currently have planned for 4.1. aren't intended to remove that element of gameplay at all, but simply refine it and bring it more in line with our design goals for the spec as a whole.


For weeks now we have been asking what exactly those goals are. I appreciate your response, but some details on what Blizz expects from Disc would be appreciated even more.

For myself, the only viable option I had anymore was to go Holy. And reading the latest nerf to PW:B, I find myself thinking sadly that I will never go back to Disc.

03/01/2011 1:28 PMPosted by Lylirra
As we've stated in the past ([url]http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2089271114?page=25#485[/url]), we don't want Discipline priests to use their shields to exclusion of everything else -- including, potentially, a more efficient heal. While damage mitigation is what Discipline priests are known for and something that you do very well, we also want you to cast important spells like Penance, Greater Heal, and Flash Heal.


Here is the problem with this. We ALREADY do this. We have BEEN doing this. But when you nerf our signature spells and do not compensate these other heals, we are not left with many options. It has been stated repeatedly on these forums that our healing spells are weak and in need of buffing. Please, please listen to us.

03/01/2011 1:28 PMPosted by Lylirra
Even so, we know that a lot of players want a class specialization that does nothing but shield, and that's fair -- but that's not the direction we want to take with Discipline priests right now. We want you to use the spell that's most appropriate for the situation, be that a heal, a shield, or an offensive ability like Smite. Your shields will still have their time and place, of course, and we'll make sure that you have good reason to cast them, but they just won't be the only thing you use to keep an ally alive.


Again, this is already what we are doing. These nerfs you've given us are due to a small minority of top-geared priests...and yet they affect EVERY disc priest.

Let me give you an example. I have a level 42 priest on Dentarg. She does not have Rapture yet, or Shadowfiend. Trying to quest now with PW:S being so expensive has become hell. During one-on-one fights it's okay, but if she is facing an elite or more than one mob, then I very quickly find myself going OOM because of the crippling cost of shielding myself just to stay alive. I then have to resort to wanding, which is next to useless, and pray that I can regen enough mana while my shield still holds that I can cast it again when it breaks. And then of course I'm OOM again and the cycle begins all over.

Do the devs understand at all what they've done here? By nerfing the class for a select few, they have broken it for everyone else.

85 Night Elf Priest
7275
it is being made very obvious that you just dont want us to cast shield at all. unfortunately there are several talents and a mastery devoted to a spell that you dont want us casting. so what is the point? what are your intentions with this spec/with this class?


We want Power Word: Shield, Power Word: Barrier, and Divine Aegis to continue to be an important part of a Discipline priest's rotation. We want you to use those spells frequently. The changes we've made through hotfixes and those that we currently have planned for 4.1. aren't intended to remove that element of gameplay at all, but simply refine it and bring it more in line with our design goals for the spec as a whole.

As we've stated in the past ([url]http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2089271114?page=25#485[/url]), we don't want Discipline priests to use their shields to exclusion of everything else -- including, potentially, a more efficient heal. While damage mitigation is what Discipline priests are known for and something that you do very well, we also want you to cast important spells like Penance, Greater Heal, and Flash Heal. Casting those heals doesn't make you a Holy priest, especially if you're using them to leverage other key talents in the Discipline arsenal (like Renewed Hope, Strength of Soul, and Train of Thought).

Even so, we know that a lot of players want a class specialization that does nothing but shield, and that's fair -- but that's not the direction we want to take with Discipline priests right now. We want you to use the spell that's most appropriate for the situation, be that a heal, a shield, or an offensive ability like Smite. Your shields will still have their time and place, of course, and we'll make sure that you have good reason to cast them, but they just won't be the only thing you use to keep an ally alive.


The above aside, we really appreciate your feedback, and encourage you to keep talking about what you'd like to see from the priest class, and Discipline especially.


you have no idea what you're doing and that is reflected in the fact that you don't know what you're talking about. you removed all of the boosts to flash heal with this expansion. there are zero talents that benefit flash heal in the disc tree. tell me why anyone should cast it?

how about you stop making changes until you know how people actually play the game you're working on. because you clearly don't.

i'll give you a free tip: disc doesn't have a rotation. it never had a rotation. it only ever had flash heal and bubbles, and you are trying to remove both and replace them with nothing. if you knew that there never was disc 'rotation' you wouldn't be making such nonsensical statements.
Edited by Xayd on 3/1/2011 2:08 PM PST
85 Human Hunter
3675
a cap to shields is a perfect fix why does blizzard ignore these suggestions. revert the mana cost and cap shields to about five or six and you're done.
90 Draenei Priest
15330
I do like the following change
* It is now possible to remove Weakened Soul effects that were a result of another priest's Power Word: Shield through Strength of Soul.


This fixes a huge bane of disc and holy being in the same group. It is common practice to tell a holy that they cant use their shields. This is because the weaken soul would make it impossible for the disc to shield people. I feel the change helps to eliminate this problem.

I also like the reduction of how long shield lasts. 15 seconds makes it less likely that a priest will try to bubble an entire 25man raid. When i played a disc i felt like my absorption abilities went to waist at times.

I would like if a shield runs out as a disc priest that the remaining amount to be absorbed will become a heal. this means if you cast penance that puts divine aegis on a mage and brings them up to 60% health, the resulting aegis doesnt fall off after 15 seconds without doing anything.

It would be nice to cast heal on a person that hits them for 15k, puts a 1.5k shield on the person, which runs out after 15 seconds, and grants them the 1.5k as a heal.

This would also make poh seem less "spammy" when I need to do aoe healing.

I'll actually make a topic with this suggestion.
Edited by Sophia on 3/1/2011 2:11 PM PST
Community Manager
03/01/2011 1:33 PMPosted by Tiduz
I would like to see the 4 piece bonus balanced for discipline, if you don't know what I'm talking about check out the numerous threads about the tier piece imbalance for disc vs holy.


This is feedback we've seen quite a bit, and it's good. With the changes to Chakra in 4.0.6, we realize a lot of players feel that the Holy 4-piece set bonus is currently much stronger than its Discipline counterpart. We don't disagree and it's something we've been actively discussing changing in 4.1 (for example, we're considering potentially removing the Weakened Soul requirement on Penance targets in order for the Spirit bonus to apply).
Edited by Lylirra on 3/1/2011 4:16 PM PST
85 Tauren Druid
7030
That would certainly be very nice. Right now Disc bonus is world behind Holy, and though Holy bonus is a little too good TBH, it's still behind the rest of the other healers bonus.
85 Undead Priest
3390
That sounds great. I think discipline is in a pretty good place right now, I raid heal both 10 and 25ms with it. But I would like to actually be viable to raid heal chim. Prayer of healing will not work if 3 ppl in my assigned group are low and absorbs do nothing.
85 Draenei Priest
4855
I understand that you want us to use other spells and that's all fine and dandy but the entire talent tree needs to be reworked. 1/3 of our talents are tied DIRECTLY to PW:S as well as our mastery being tied DIRECTLY to absorption amounts. Want us to use Divine Aegis? make it proc off something besides crit and PoH. We spent 3 whole points into getting DA just so we can get a now 3 min raid cd yet the only time we really see DA is with PoH.

Penance is on too long of a cd even when we use it right when it's up and you wanted us to STEP AWAY from flash heal in this new healing model and not use it unless it's an emergency. Greater heal has always been our staple heal and that's what we've been spamming the entire time with PoH because outside of that, there ARE NO other spells for us to use. We get NO bonus at all to ANY of our healing done unless you spec into AA, our main spec is to MITIGATE damage.

Of course it is expected that we heal as well but right now we mitigate barely ANYTHING and spend more time healing because we cannot AFFORD the MP to mitigate.

This is vastly untrue for 25man as they have more mana regen capabilities to use but 10 mans discs suffer greatly from all these nerfs because our talent trees have NO synergy besides PW:S.
86 Draenei Priest
7770
I would like to see the 4 piece bonus balanced for discipline, if you don't know what I'm talking about check out the numerous threads about the tier piece imbalance for disc vs holy.


With the changes to Chakra in 4.0.6, we realize a lot of players now feel that the Holy 4-piece set bonus is stronger than its Discipline counterpart. We don't disagree and it's something we've been actively discussing changing in 4.1 (for example, we're considering potentially removing the Weakened Soul requirement on Penance targets in order for the Spirit bonus to apply).


That really wouldn't fix the disparity between the two. Penanace still has a 10sec. CD while glyphed and we have no window of time before the buff falls off, while holy has 30secs?

Also 9 times out of 10 the tank (whom we should be healing) would have the weakened soul debuff anyway. Also if the player doesn't need a heal, we'd just be wasting mana to get a proc that would return the wasted mana and we'd not really get any benefit.
Edited by Pleasuriser on 3/1/2011 2:24 PM PST
85 Night Elf Priest
7275
03/01/2011 2:20 PMPosted by Pleasuriser


With the changes to Chakra in 4.0.6, we realize a lot of players now feel that the Holy 4-piece set bonus is stronger than its Discipline counterpart. We don't disagree and it's something we've been actively discussing changing in 4.1 (for example, we're considering potentially removing the Weakened Soul requirement on Penance targets in order for the Spirit bonus to apply).


That really wouldn't fix the disparity between the two. 9 times out of 10 the tank (whom we should be healing) would have the weakened soul debuff anyway. Also if the player doesn't need a heal, we'd just be wasting mana to get a proc that would return the wasted mana and we'd not really get any benefit.


disc is not a tank healer. that's where both you and they are wrong.

shaman and paladins are tank healers.
85 Human Hunter
3675


That really wouldn't fix the disparity between the two. 9 times out of 10 the tank (whom we should be healing) would have the weakened soul debuff anyway. Also if the player doesn't need a heal, we'd just be wasting mana to get a proc that would return the wasted mana and we'd not really get any benefit.


disc is not a tank healer. that's where both you and they are wrong.

shaman and paladins are tank healers.


This is also an issue what ever happened to the no niches thing that blizzard threw around at the start of the expansion...
85 Blood Elf Priest
6480
I would like to see the 4 piece bonus balanced for discipline, if you don't know what I'm talking about check out the numerous threads about the tier piece imbalance for disc vs holy.


With the changes to Chakra in 4.0.6, we realize a lot of players feel that the Holy 4-piece set bonus is currently much stronger than its Discipline counterpart. We don't disagree and it's something we've been actively discussing changing in 4.1 (for example, we're considering potentially removing the Weakened Soul requirement on Penance targets in order for the Spirit bonus to apply).


That wouldn't address the issue that it would require using penance on cd with glyph to match holy's uptime, when penance is not generally something you want to use on cooldown. Increasing the duration of the buff for discipline would do a lot more to balance the uptimes without enforcing a strict playstyle that is suboptimal and requires penance to be glyphed.

Penance is efficient and heals for a fair bit, its a good spell, but its more valuable to save for when its needed or when its more optimal, like when someone dips low and already has weakened soul, or when a tank dips. At the very least you want to use it when its not going to overheal terribly. In 99% of situations when some sort of quick strong heal is needed pw:s is a better answer then penance - most of the time I use penance the target already has weakened soul anyway. When most of the raid is topped off you simply are not going to use penance. You may use smite and stack evangelism, or you may preshield (with 15 second shields, probably not that much preshielding aside from burst aoe damage). When aoe is going out your going to be using PoH with AA, if someone dips lower than the others you may cast pw:s and then go back to poh, or if that person has weakened soul already, you may cast penance. For tank healing penance could be used more often but druids and paladins do that job much better.

Basically, balancing the tier bonus with that fix would solve nothing. It would increase the uptime very slightly and still be nowhere near the 95-100% uptimes that holy sees.
Edited by Tiduz on 3/1/2011 2:37 PM PST
85 Blood Elf Priest
6395


Thanks for responding, we've been waiting for a Blue response.

We get what you're saying, but with Disc's current talents, our direct heals just feel like a watered down version of Holy. If shields are getting less emphasized, then we need our direct heals (especially Penance) to feel more important. Strength of Soul and Train of Thought are cool talents, but they affect cooldowns and debuffs more than making our direct heals actually useful. Casting Heal so we can get PW:S up again faster is an awesome mechanic, but if PW:S is too expensive to cast that often, then even that's not so helpful, and the talent is borderline useless in AoE.

I think playing the bubble bot in Wrath was reallllly boring. I don't want to return to that playstyle. But I feel like if shields are gonna be the focal point of the tree, then they need to be the focal point of the tree, and with one castable shield spell, we can't have that without spamming that spell.

I think Disc needs a new absorb spell, and we need some more incentives to cast our direct heals so they feel different from Holy.


THIS.

100% this.
86 Draenei Priest
7770
disc is not a tank healer. that's where both you and they are wrong.

shaman and paladins are tank healers.


Don't forget druids too.

85 Tauren Druid
7030
Maybe my Disc priest is just too good, but seeing at our H omni kill:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/k51xz7vallz74wz9/details/3/?s=2246&e=2793

- His PW:S + Glyph is doing almost 70% of his healing
- His output is more than good, on par with mine actually and I was ranked for WoL that fight
- He is not being fed by innervates, like not even one

So, he seems to be still prevention focused, self reliant, and very good compared with resto druids. I fail to see the issue with disc priests.
86 Draenei Priest
7770
Maybe my Disc priest is just too good, but seeing at our H omni kill:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/k51xz7vallz74wz9/details/3/?s=2246&e=2793

- His PW:S + Glyph is doing almost 70% of his healing
- His output is more than good, on par with mine actually and I was ranked for WoL that fight
- He is not being fed by innervates, like not even one

So, he seems to be still prevention focused, self reliant, and very good compared with resto druids. I fail to see the issue with disc priests.


WOL

Argument irrelevant.
85 Undead Priest
3390
Disc is one of the best tank healing specs Imo, but no 25m raid ive been in ever just uses one healer to tank heal. While my guild uses 2 druids to tank heal, I could definitely switch in with them with all my extremely powerful tools:

-27k sheilds
-30k penance
-46k gheal crits
-Pain supression- my own tank cooldown
-PW:Barrier- olook another tank cooldown
-Strength of soul mean I can put another 27k shield within 6 secs of the last one
-Inner Focus- Free 25%+ crit gheals
-Renewed Hope +10% more crit to single target heals on ppl I shielded (ie: the tank)


As far as our mastery goes I think its good for when there is constant aoe damage going out.

In fights where there is only spikes of damage, it gets hard to raid heal back to 100% when you know all of that absorb your building up is going to fade before the next bout of damage, meaning that we become insanely innefficient on certain fights as opposed to others.

If disc has any issue, its not tank healing... yet.
85 Blood Elf Priest
6480
A 50% reduction to the duration of PW:S is the main problem heading into 4.0.1, there are other issues as well though.
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