[Feedback] proposed changes to Lifebloom

90 Blood Elf Priest
12135
03/01/2011 6:54 PMPosted by Bashiok
The change to Efflorescence becoming a smart heal was actually originally just a bug. Since so many of you responded so favorably to it though, we're actually going to redesign Efflorescence to work similarly. We expect the redesign to help the talent be more useful in 5 and 10 player content as well. We'll have more details at a later time.
Will this also apply to the other ground-targeted AE heals (Sanc, Healing Rain) or just Efflo?
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Can you reply as to what the thought was for nerfing boomkins? You'd think they would get some sort of buff because of pvp... not a dmg nerf.
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85 Night Elf Druid
9385
03/01/2011 6:54 PMPosted by Bashiok
We're a bit worried about Resto being too powerful in PvP


Not gonna lie, I'm somewhat concerned about how it will affect Balance PvP given what a notoriously cra-I mean poor state it is. (Especially on top of the cyclone duration nerf)
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85 Tauren Druid
6465
Thx Bashiok for the info!

As long as the thread is derailed... I agree that if Efflorescence becomes a smart heal, so should all ground targeted heals.

Also, I think that Healing Rain, Earthquake, and all ground targeted aoe spells should be instant cast, except the few heavy hitting channeled spells. Things and people move around so often, that it seems cruel to make a cast time on a ground targeted spell.

:)
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85 Night Elf Druid
3490
03/01/2011 6:54 PMPosted by Bashiok
We're a bit worried about Resto being too powerful in PvP.


Ugh. I'm so tired of this excuse. Things are being broken again and again in PvE due to the PvP crowd being so incredibly loud with their complaints. They were beaten by a class. "Nerf the class, Blizzard!" and then comply. Oh no! We broke PvE!

Do this, and all of your issues balancing PvE and PvP together will be solved:

03/01/2011 8:34 AMPosted by Treehuggur
2) If PvP must stay, then change class mechanics so that when players enter arenas and BGs the mechanics change to what you determine to be more ‘class balancing’. This way you don’t have to break the PvE game every time you need to ‘balance’ PvP.


This is the most intelligent solution I've ever read. But it won't happen. Instead, we'll keep breaking PvE things to appease the PvP crowd. Makes me sad :(
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90 Night Elf Druid
7050
We're a bit worried about Resto being too powerful in PvP. We wanted to try out the Lifebloom changes to see if it fixed the problem. We don’t think it's quite the right change though, so we're going to revert the Lifebloom mana nerf, but keep the reduced bloom effect. We'll have to keep watching this.

The change to Efflorescence becoming a smart heal was actually originally just a bug. Since so many of you responded so favorably to it though, we're actually going to redesign Efflorescence to work similarly. We expect the redesign to help the talent be more useful in 5 and 10 player content as well. We'll have more details at a later time.


It's really driving me crazy that you guys are changing one thing or another for the sole purpose of PvP or PvE. To quote: "We're a bit worried about Resto being too powerful in PvP." So, you nerf the spell to the detriment of already struggling PvE healers? I'm happy to hear about the mana revision, but punishing PvP players at the cost of increased difficulty for PvE players doesn't seem to go along with the "balance" that I read about in the forums you claim to try to achieve.

So many changes in 4.0.6 are focused on changing PvP performance I fear that the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. Either PvP suffers or PvE suffers. What are you doing to balance both?
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85 Blood Elf Warlock
5990
We're a bit worried about Resto being too powerful in PvP. We wanted to try out the Lifebloom changes to see if it fixed the problem. We don’t think it's quite the right change though, so we're going to revert the Lifebloom mana nerf, but keep the reduced bloom effect. We'll have to keep watching this.

The change to Efflorescence becoming a smart heal was actually originally just a bug. Since so many of you responded so favorably to it though, we're actually going to redesign Efflorescence to work similarly. We expect the redesign to help the talent be more useful in 5 and 10 player content as well. We'll have more details at a later time.


Well thank god you're reverting the mana change. That would have been too punishing on pve druids. I don't really agree with the bloom nerf either, but I suppose if I had to take one of them it would be that one.
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90 Draenei Paladin
10240
03/01/2011 7:51 PMPosted by Bravehearthh
Resto PVE is so dismally weak that it's a burden to log on to raid. You have no legitimate justification to even be considering any form of mana nerf to resto druid right now. Stop ruining my raid experience with your crappy pvp sidegame.


Weak? A burden? We're one of the best efficient healers out of the rest, and highest HPS maintainable (outside of holy priests)

Maybe its you instead of the class that the problems why you haven't progressed farther then 2 bosses in one raid.


Have you even looked at a druid recently? Druids can hardly be called efficient and hps aren't doing much better. I'm going to assume you're talking about Paladins for which both statements are true and more fitting considering your use of "we're" and the fact that you're posting from a paladin. Also the main reason why we're having trouble getting further in the instances is because we had 2/3 of our healers being druids and quite a few healers quit playing a healing class or quit the game all together due to balancing issues.
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80 Troll Druid
1390
We're a bit worried about Resto being too powerful in PvP. We wanted to try out the Lifebloom changes to see if it fixed the problem. We don’t think it's quite the right change though, so we're going to revert the Lifebloom mana nerf, but keep the reduced bloom effect. We'll have to keep watching this.

The change to Efflorescence becoming a smart heal was actually originally just a bug. Since so many of you responded so favorably to it though, we're actually going to redesign Efflorescence to work similarly. We expect the redesign to help the talent be more useful in 5 and 10 player content as well. We'll have more details at a later time.


thanks a lot for the info! any chance we can get some insight on the tranquility change? is that the intended cooldown change for druids Neth spoke about or is something else in the works? it's listed as 2.5/5 minute reduction but as a specialization passive, is it intended to be a 5 minute reduction?
Edited by Droodbro on 3/1/2011 9:22 PM PST
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90 Human Priest
13670
03/01/2011 7:43 PMPosted by Jaryn
We're a bit worried about Resto being too powerful in PvP. We wanted to try out the Lifebloom changes to see if it fixed the problem.


I can't begin to explain how angry this makes me. Resto PVE is so dismally weak that it's a burden to log on to raid. You have no legitimate justification to even be considering any form of mana nerf to resto druid right now. Stop ruining my raid experience with your crappy pvp sidegame.

To be clear: I don't care that the mana increase was reverted. I'm PISSED that you even thought about it. You should be worrying about making resto remotely enjoyable again in a raid environment. Seriously, you've utterly failed resto druids this expansion. It's miserable.
^This.
Balancing PVP on the back of raid PVE is just totally wrong and always will be.
Worse, though, is this constant tinkering that Blizzard is doing to pretty much all classes. It is a constant annoyance and disruption of the game. And we know they do it because now they can. There is no other reason.
Edited by Gellar on 3/1/2011 9:28 PM PST
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85 Tauren Druid
5435
I'd take the mana cost nerf if you allow Lifebloom to be stacked up to 5 times...
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Not a frequent poster either, but I thought I'd add my two cents about this.

I have to agree with the people who have been voicing complaints about the battle between PvP and PvE balancing. Though some of them have written in a rude and inflammatory nature, the validity of the claims is unaffected. This is not a new problem for the game. As someone who has played since vanilla, I feel that the problem really started around the time arena was introduced and given so much importance, but that's neither here nor there. My request is simple:

Please stop trying to balance PvP and PvE together

The two aspects of the game are completely different, and should not be given the same treatment. What is perfectly fine in one situation is terrible imbalanced in the other. I know that this is not a completely alien concept, since it was the reasoning behind several already implemented differences between the two. For example, I can't use battle rez in the arena because that would be a bit unfair. Yet there is a denial that anything further than this kind of "cooldown cap" has to be implemented to finely tune PvP, and an insistence that the best way to make orange juice is the best way to make apple juice too.

The suggestion made by a previous poster that you implement a system wherein entering a pvp situation changes the way certain spells work is fantastic. Yes, it might be a great deal of work to implement. Yes, it might complicate the game somewhat. But it is also one of the only ways to do this fairly. Please consider this option.
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72 Tauren Druid
380
How hard would it be to distinguish between zones? Like if you're in Arena/BG your spells would be in PVP mode, while anywhere else it would be in PVE mode. Then you could balance one without touching the other. Is this not feasible in this day and age?
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85 Worgen Druid
4775
I haven't seen this mentioned yet, but the reduced bloom healing also reduces the effectiveness of ToL and raid-blanketing Lifeblooms to handle damage spikes.

However, I guess I can trade that in for a 3 minute Tranquility! RAH!
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90 Night Elf Druid
7050
03/01/2011 9:32 PMPosted by Beârtìòn
How hard would it be to distinguish between zones? Like if you're in Arena/BG your spells would be in PVP mode, while anywhere else it would be in PVE mode. Then you could balance one without touching the other. Is this not feasible in this day and age?


They already do it. You tried to cast rebirth in an arena lately?
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90 Blood Elf Priest
6345
03/01/2011 9:43 PMPosted by Thanaris
How hard would it be to distinguish between zones? Like if you're in Arena/BG your spells would be in PVP mode, while anywhere else it would be in PVE mode. Then you could balance one without touching the other. Is this not feasible in this day and age?


They already do it. You tried to cast rebirth in an arena lately?


This is mostly what confuses me. A lot of spells and effects already differ between PvP and PvE targets. Can't we just have a button to toggle us between PvE and PvP tooltips? I really think all these hotfixes and rebalances are way more confusing to players than dynamic PvP/PvE effects and tooltips.
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90 Worgen Druid
6655
awsome change for efflo, thank you.
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85 Night Elf Druid
12655
Sheesh, go raid for a few hours and the thread goes off the rails on a crazy train.

Thanks Bashiok for addressing the original post, and it's a great relief to hear Blizz is reverting the proposed mana changes to Lifebloom.

I understand it would take an enourmous amount of new coding but I do hope the development team gives some due consideration to our suggestions for having the class mechanics adjust for PvP when doing arenas and BGs and adding a third talent spec option that is only for PvP so that you can better balance PvP without always affecting PvE.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
0
We're a bit worried about Resto being too powerful in PvP. We wanted to try out the Lifebloom changes to see if it fixed the problem. We don’t think it's quite the right change though, so we're going to revert the Lifebloom mana nerf, but keep the reduced bloom effect. We'll have to keep watching this.

The change to Efflorescence becoming a smart heal was actually originally just a bug. Since so many of you responded so favorably to it though, we're actually going to redesign Efflorescence to work similarly. We expect the redesign to help the talent be more useful in 5 and 10 player content as well. We'll have more details at a later time.


Have you seen shammies in PvP?
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