[Feedback] proposed changes to Lifebloom

85 Night Elf Druid
14060
Overall healing doesn't matter. You need to compare each boss fights to get a true feel of how well healers are performing on each fight. And on most fights, they are within 1%.
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85 Worgen Druid
5650
03/02/2011 9:07 AMPosted by Yumei
Overall healing doesn't matter. You need to compare each boss fights to get a true feel of how well healers are performing on each fight. And on most fights, they are within 1%.


Time for some comic relief!

Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBZQN-k21mM
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85 Tauren Druid
9460
We're a bit worried about Resto being too powerful in PvP. We wanted to try out the Lifebloom changes to see if it fixed the problem. We don’t think it's quite the right change though, so we're going to revert the Lifebloom mana nerf, but keep the reduced bloom effect. We'll have to keep watching this.

The change to Efflorescence becoming a smart heal was actually originally just a bug. Since so many of you responded so favorably to it though, we're actually going to redesign Efflorescence to work similarly. We expect the redesign to help the talent be more useful in 5 and 10 player content as well. We'll have more details at a later time.


It would be really nice if balance and feral druids didn't continually suffer nerfs for the sake of Resto.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2140190148
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85 Worgen Druid
5650
03/02/2011 9:16 AMPosted by Hydrax
Overall healing doesn't matter. You need to compare each boss fights to get a true feel of how well healers are performing on each fight. And on most fights, they are within 1%.


Time for some comic relief!

Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBZQN-k21mM


Not even a troll? You guys are no fun.
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90 Worgen Druid
13940
I watched it.. makes me want to grab the trinket next time it drops, but I doubt I could make a cool little music vid out of it since I'm terribly lacking in the creativity department. =|
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85 Night Elf Druid
3915
I'm okay with the 20% reduced effect on the bloom itself. Why? Let me tell you:

A LBx3 for me ticks at 1,400 and will bloom 18-19kish. That tick is about half what my rejuv ticks at (3,200); plus I have an extra tick in there from haste (6 on LB, 5 on rejuve). The bloom part is on par with my Healing Touch. LBx3 is also not significantly different in mana cost then a rejuv is for me ( <500 mana difference). So for the same mana as rejuv, I get half of a rejuv plus a HT currently, that's a bargin regardless how you look at it. With the reduced bloom I will still see 16-17k, still not bad.

Now lets look at PvE gameplay with LB. In PvE I rarely let LB expire on the tank, if I do its because I mis-cast it on someone else, was silenced/rooted/stunned/etc, or was busy healing elsewhere (usually someone standing in the fire...). With that being said, I proabably won't notice the 20% reduced bloom. I know I'm not the only druid who does this either, dare I say the majority of us use this tactic.

As long as the nerf only affects the bloom at the end (as per the March 1st patch notes), I see minimal impact on PvE healing. I don't PvP heal enough, at least aside from BGs, to know how it will affect performance there.
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85 Worgen Druid
5650
03/02/2011 10:02 AMPosted by Squishes
I watched it.. makes me want to grab the trinket next time it drops, but I doubt I could make a cool little music vid out of it since I'm terribly lacking in the creativity department. =|


Ah, they changed it so you don't tweak out anymore :(
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90 Worgen Druid
13940
03/02/2011 10:13 AMPosted by Hydrax
I watched it.. makes me want to grab the trinket next time it drops, but I doubt I could make a cool little music vid out of it since I'm terribly lacking in the creativity department. =|


Ah, they changed it so you don't tweak out anymore :(


Pity.. I'll probably still pick the trinket up though since I used to always carry a mana regen trinket in my bags just in case. Only reason I don't have it now is because I thought the last one that dropped was going to get grabbed by our holy pally, but I found out after raid that it went to DE -_-
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85 Night Elf Druid
2685
How hard would it be to distinguish between zones? Like if you're in Arena/BG your spells would be in PVP mode, while anywhere else it would be in PVE mode. Then you could balance one without touching the other. Is this not feasible in this day and age?


Can't they just the use the PVP flag???
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85 Tauren Druid
4900
I like the idea of making Efflo smart. Can this be an opportunity to visit and discuss unlinking the talent from living seed or perhaps swapping living seed and natures bounty? Living seed does 1 to 2 percent of my healing, very disappointing for three points. I see it as much more of a pvp talent, where regrowth is the prime cast heal. At least making natures bounty the prereq would keep both talents raid heal focused. Even more frustrating, the only real way to have living seed be good is with natures bounty, which you are hard pressed to get with the six point sink for Efflo. Swapping the two would allow the linked talents to share a focus and living seed can become optional for those limited situations where its actually viable.
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The problem with nerfing the bloom in PVE is that it's a non-trivial reduction to healing in ToL form.
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85 Tauren Druid
6465
03/02/2011 7:50 AMPosted by Usples
However, the main issue is, and not from our two build options, is that unfortunately the most popular Resto spec out there is still the 7/0/34 one without any points in MG. So the larger community, in my eyes, needs to re-think their build before we can really turn round and say that there are mana issues in general.


I feel you're mistaken. We don't have any talents that significantly impact mana for a 10 minute battle. I have Moonglow, as you suggest. The only talent I skipped was Furor, as I calculated it about 60 mp5, and chose Genesis (+2/4/6% healing) instead.

Doing Heroic Maloriak, I used every avenue available to me for mana. I used the innervate from a boomkin on cooldown. I had mana tide totems from 2 shammies. I used my own innervate on cooldown, used my trinket on cooldown, used my clearcasts. I kept 3 Lifeblooms rolling and used my tier bonus. I used a full Concentration potion. I avoided casting any spell besides Lifebloom Swiftmend Rejuv WG. I didn't use the heaviest mana cost spells, if I could avoid it.

I had less overhealing than other healers at about 35%, which is high for me but not obscene, and I still went completely oom before the burn phase.

Furthermore, our raid took less damage per second than any of the top 200 listing for resto druids on H-Maloriak. So our healers were not even casting all the time! When I have done everything in my power to do, and my character just becomes unplayable before the end of an encounter, that's just not so peachy. There is an issue.

I hear people saying not to look at worldoflogs, and others saying not to look at personal experiences. You may disagree on which is a better source of data, but I have both. I can also show in WoL how I have only 55% the regen of a paladin.


PS - Yanaluha, I think that was the point, and suggest that, if arena ToL LBs are the issue, they can make it back up by putting something into WG, which is never full force in an arena match. They could make our Mastery work on all WG targets, for starters, if I cast a WG on someone with a Rejuv on them.

Edited by Lyelu on 3/2/2011 11:15 AM PST
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100 Night Elf Druid
18955
This change makes the issue of tank swaps (already annoying at 3 gcds) even worse by increasing the mana cost. I understand that it's difficult to give us the ability to adjust to tank swaps without overpowering us in small group pvp, but this change serves to push us further into a niche of raid and not tank healers.

Personally, I'd really like to see a shortish (~30 sec) cooldown ability similar to Soul Swap that allows us to transfer our Lifebloom stack. But given that Lifebloom is already apparently overpowered in pvp, I'm not getting my hopes up.
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90 Worgen Druid
13940
This change makes the issue of tank swaps (already annoying at 3 gcds) even worse by increasing the mana cost. I understand that it's difficult to give us the ability to adjust to tank swaps without overpowering us in small group pvp, but this change serves to push us further into a niche of raid and not tank healers.

Personally, I'd really like to see a shortish (~30 sec) cooldown ability similar to Soul Swap that allows us to transfer our Lifebloom stack. But given that Lifebloom is already apparently overpowered in pvp, I'm not getting my hopes up.


Bashiok already posted that they didn't like the mana change and are reverting that one. Just the bloom is getting nerfed now
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85 Worgen Druid
5650

PS - Yanaluha, I think that was the point, and suggest that, if arena ToL LBs are the issue, they can make it back up by putting something into WG, which is never full force in an arena match. They could make our Mastery work on all WG targets, for starters, if I cast a WG on someone with a Rejuv on them.


Plus we already know they aren't against making a huge change that's limited to arena only, if that's really the problem, I mean...

Heroism anyone?
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85 Night Elf Druid
14060
03/02/2011 11:05 AMPosted by Lyelu
Doing Heroic Maloriak, I used every avenue available to me for mana. I used the innervate from a boomkin on cooldown. I had mana tide totems from 2 shammies. I used my own innervate on cooldown, used my trinket on cooldown, used my clearcasts. I kept 3 Lifeblooms rolling and used my tier bonus. I used a full Concentration potion. I avoided casting any spell besides Lifebloom Swiftmend Rejuv WG. I didn't use the heaviest mana cost spells, if I could avoid it.

I actually took a few minutes to compare it to our kill last night, major differences are fight duration (11:45 vs 10:17), 1 vs 2 discs, and us using an extra paladin for no particular reason.

Your 4T11 uptime was 45.7% (which isn't terrible, but if you have mana issues it pays off to pay more attention to it.)
Your raid took 10075544 sludge damage vs 6612064 for ours.

My mana was fine, yours and your other raid healers' mana was probably getting drained during the black phase.

Anyway, it's for things like that I refuse to drop my mana talents for progression. Don't forget that 2/3 Furor also increases mana gains from Innervate, Replenishment, Revitalize and Hymn of Hope.
Edited by Yumei on 3/2/2011 11:39 AM PST
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91 Tauren Druid
11300
Sometimes I wonder what Blizzard are thinking. Resto druids overpowered in PvP?

If, once engaged, any class lets me get off 3 LBs and then lets the LBs bloom 9 seconds later, without dispelling them, the problem is not an extra 10K healing that the bloom does.

There are so many ways that a druid can be countered and yet death knights, paladins and warriors can heal for over 50% of my healing in an arena without making a cast and stun/cc/dps as well.
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85 Gnome Death Knight
3795
We're a bit worried about Resto being too powerful in PvP. We wanted to try out the Lifebloom changes to see if it fixed the problem. We don’t think it's quite the right change though, so we're going to revert the Lifebloom mana nerf, but keep the reduced bloom effect. We'll have to keep watching this.

The change to Efflorescence becoming a smart heal was actually originally just a bug. Since so many of you responded so favorably to it though, we're actually going to redesign Efflorescence to work similarly. We expect the redesign to help the talent be more useful in 5 and 10 player content as well. We'll have more details at a later time.



maybe eliminate tree form in pvp? i mean i don't see druids being overly powerful unless they pop tree form and spam regrowth over and over... messing with lifebloom is just nonsense period... some of us druids actually like to pve too:) but the revert on the mana cost is very good indeed
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03/02/2011 11:44 AMPosted by Swifthoof
If, once engaged, any class lets me get off 3 LBs and then lets the LBs bloom 9 seconds later, without dispelling them, the problem is not an extra 10K healing that the bloom does.


Honestly I don't arena but this rings true. I've mostly given up popping ToL in a BG because it's an instant invitation for stunlock, banish, etc. Being CC'd is an extremely ineffective way to heal :)
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85 Worgen Druid
6045
Please do us a favor, and stop maknig the game worse for what should be your main focus of pve style play, to draw in a more balanced pvp play.

Idea: Make a 3rd spec for every class, being their pvp spec if they so chose to have one. Have your nerfs and balance changes apply to this spec. LEAVE MY LIFEBLOOM ALONE! It is not fair to continously toss pve playstyle back and forth to work on balancing another play aspect that doesn't relate. Thanks for this. NOT.

Thank you.
-Ori
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