[Feedback] proposed changes to Lifebloom

85 Tauren Druid
6465
Your 4T11 uptime was 45.7% (which isn't terrible, but if you have mana issues it pays off to pay more attention to it.)


Possible... I'm a bit confused by whether the bonus stays up during tree form LB spam, but I doubt it. I also lose it when taking the conc potion. I also lose it in black phase because the MT cannot be healed, so I let them fall off and go out of range of him to heal the melee. So yes there are issues with uptime, but I made every effort, really, to keep it up as much as humanly possible. I will reconsider Furor, but it really will kill me to give up two points Genesis for it... that hurts.

03/02/2011 11:38 AMPosted by Yumei
Your raid took 10075544 sludge damage vs 6612064 for ours.


Yes, at 11:45, we had an extra black phase. If you look purely at damage per second on the raid, our raid was at 67254, yours at 70370. Both of those numbers are quite low compared to some of the logs I read.

To be clear, are you saying there is no issue? Because by the end of this I was doing zero healing in the burn phase, except a couple Lifeblooms on the tank. Couldn't even get my 3 stack up, oom. :)

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100 Night Elf Druid
15535
in regards to the following post; "We're a bit worried about Resto being too powerful in PvP. We wanted to try out the Lifebloom changes to see if it fixed the problem. We don’t think it's quite the right change though, so we're going to revert the Lifebloom mana nerf, but keep the reduced bloom effect. We'll have to keep watching this."

I dont think that keeping the mana cost the same and reducing the blooming effect is a viable option either, it is going to significantly affect tank healing specially with lower Ilevel gear. If pvp is the problem then nerf the pvp effect. you already do this with other classes, certain abilties are not permitted in arenas. You could also lower the intelligence on PVP gear, or develop a third spec for pvp only; that affects talents, attributes or spells differently than in pve, or introduce some kind of debuff in arenas, rated battlegrounds to healing. But nerfing any class in pve because of their pvp perfomance is not fair to people that don't participated in pvp. the opposite situation is also true.
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85 Night Elf Druid
14060
03/02/2011 12:21 PMPosted by Lyelu
Your 4T11 uptime was 45.7% (which isn't terrible, but if you have mana issues it pays off to pay more attention to it.)


Possible... I'm a bit confused by whether the bonus stays up during tree form LB spam, but I doubt it. I also lose it when taking the conc potion. I also lose it in black phase because the MT cannot be healed, so I let them fall off and go out of range of him to heal the melee. So yes there are issues with uptime, but I made every effort, really, to keep it up as much as humanly possible. I will reconsider Furor, but it really will kill me to give up two points Genesis for it... that hurts.

03/02/2011 11:38 AMPosted by Yumei
Your raid took 10075544 sludge damage vs 6612064 for ours.


Yes, at 11:45, we had an extra black phase. If you look purely at damage per second on the raid, our raid was at 67254, yours at 70370. Both of those numbers are quite low compared to some of the logs I read.

To be clear, are you saying there is no issue? Because by the end of this I was doing zero healing in the burn phase, except a couple Lifeblooms on the tank. Couldn't even get my 3 stack up, oom. :)


I was under the impression that he enraged before you reached a 3rd black phase (or you would run out of time anyway), sorry if I missed that. Anyway, I misread it, you guys used one less raid healer. My 4T11 uptime is high because I keep LB on the add tank for most of the fight. To me, mana isn't a huge issue but it doesn't feel plentiful enough to consider dropping regen talents, and I've never felt that my throughput was lacking. Our other druid is using the BotG/Genesis spec and our numbers are pretty much identical.
Edited by Yumei on 3/2/2011 12:45 PM PST
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85 Night Elf Druid
3785
Please stop nerfing classes for the sake of pvp or pve only.
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85 Tauren Druid
6465
03/02/2011 12:45 PMPosted by Yumei
Anyway, I misread it, you guys used one less raid healer.


Yes, I had to sustain higher hps than you, to compensate for having 6 healers, which we needed because our raid dps is not entirely stable, seems to vary somewhat more than other raids. Which is how we end up with extra black phase. Plus we don't always have a 7th healer available, unless we make someone play in offspec.

So yeah, higher hps and for longer were required from me. You could certainly make the argument that my experience is thus not valid, but ... I don't really think there's anything highly atypical in our raid comp or performance. I'd be happy with even a tiny bit more regen, just 5% more would make me so happy. 10 would be better. :)

Also occurs to me that I will stop using conc potions, since the 10 sec is too long. My lifeblooms fall off and I lose tier bonus, Revitalize, and 3 gcds. Mana potions only for me, from now on.
Edited by Lyelu on 3/2/2011 1:08 PM PST
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85 Night Elf Druid
15175
Can't wait to try BotG/Genesis spec on Heroic Valiona tonight, should be a fun test of how it performs against a furor spec.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
11090
We're a bit worried about Resto being too powerful in PvP. We wanted to try out the Lifebloom changes to see if it fixed the problem. We don’t think it's quite the right change though, so we're going to revert the Lifebloom mana nerf, but keep the reduced bloom effect. We'll have to keep watching this.

The change to Efflorescence becoming a smart heal was actually originally just a bug. Since so many of you responded so favorably to it though, we're actually going to redesign Efflorescence to work similarly. We expect the redesign to help the talent be more useful in 5 and 10 player content as well. We'll have more details at a later time.


I don't pvp
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85 Troll Druid
7645
Blizzard has yet to comment on Balance in pvp.
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85 Tauren Druid
4900
03/01/2011 6:54 PMPosted by Bashiok
We're a bit worried about Resto being too powerful in PvP. We wanted to try out the Lifebloom changes to see if it fixed the problem. We don’t think it's quite the right change though, so we're going to revert the Lifebloom mana nerf, but keep the reduced bloom effect. We'll have to keep watching this.


Thanks for taking it slow. Remember that you are nerfing the biggest burst heal in LB's bloom, and also cutting duration of cyclone, both of which are very pvp oriented nerfs.

Please make sure you can conclude that even after these changes, resto druids would be more powerful than other healers in arena before taking further steps. Even as is, I find a good resto shaman or holy paladin to be just as threatening as the enemy healer as a resto druid.
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85 Night Elf Druid
12655
Doing Heroic Maloriak, I used every avenue available to me for mana. I used the innervate from a boomkin on cooldown. I had mana tide totems from 2 shammies. I used my own innervate on cooldown, used my trinket on cooldown, used my clearcasts. I kept 3 Lifeblooms rolling and used my tier bonus. I used a full Concentration potion. I avoided casting any spell besides Lifebloom Swiftmend Rejuv WG. I didn't use the heaviest mana cost spells, if I could avoid it.

I had less overhealing than other healers at about 35%, which is high for me but not obscene, and I still went completely oom before the burn phase.
Well spoken Lyelu, that is a succinct example of current druid mana regen issues. Heroic Maloriak is next for us on progression and we will be working on him this weekend. I love a good fight but being OOM is just heartbreaking and frustrating and makes me want to reroll DPS rather than be the cause of failed attempts because I was OOM at the end and couldn't keep raiders alive.
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85 Tauren Druid
6465
03/02/2011 5:22 PMPosted by Treehuggur
Heroic Maloriak is next for us on progression and we will be working on him this weekend.


Hopefully you have a good boomkin to give you mana and a warlock to give you DI.

You will not be the cause of failed attempts. On the contrary, our class is very well designed for this encounter, perhaps even best, and I can't imagine people doing this fight without a tree. I just give it as an example because on heroics I am always hurting most for mana; thank heaven for the chickens.

:)
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85 Night Elf Druid
9260
Thank you. More reasons to be grateful I quit raid healing for Cataclysm.

Perhaps in the next expansion, healing won't make me feel like I'm in a bad dream. The one where I'm drowning in the sea at night, and once in a while, I make it to the surface to gasp for air only to get sucked back under to resume my struggle.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
7850
Why don't the devs do this? A simple solution to ALL the balance problems.

2) If PvP must stay, then change class mechanics so that when players enter arenas and BGs the mechanics change to what you determine to be more ‘class balancing’. This way you don’t have to break the PvE game every time you need to ‘balance’ PvP.

3) Or add a third talent spec option. This third talent spec would only be for PvP and would be automatically activated when, and only when entering an arena or BG. Free free to nerf/OP these PvP talents as much as your little blue hearts desire and tinker with the class abilities until they are ‘balanced.’

I welcome any counterpoints from blues or thoughts about the changes to mana cost of Lifebloom.
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85 Goblin Shaman
6965
A continuing trend at Blizzard seems to be that they catch Jr with his hand in the cookie jar, and since JR has had his hand in the cookie jar to long, and is getting a little chubbie, Momma Blizzard decides that the obvious fix is to chop off JR's hands. Instead of locking the cookie jar or putting it on top of the refrigerator, poor JR gets his hands chopped off. Then Momma Blizzard realizes that maybe chopping off Jr's hands was a bit extreme. Well, you get the idea.

Unfortunately, by wanting to nerf this for resto, you indirectly nerf Balance, and I would assume feral. Balance is already pretty crappy in PvP, and really doesn't need to get any crappier. So howsabout you hit Gift of the Earthmother instead? Or maybe hit the mastery talent so that it only affects all other heals OTHER than lifebloom by 11.4%. It only hits lifebloom for x amount, final bloom not affected. You guys do remember this talent right? http://www.wowhead.com/spell=51181
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90 Tauren Druid
7615
nm damn necro.
Edited by Myrddin on 4/7/2011 2:23 PM PDT
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