Tone down Tol Barad dailies

90 Blood Elf Paladin
12085
My problem with the instant spawning of mobs is not that its instant so much as it doesnt seem to relate to the mobs time of death very well.

For example lets say I killed 4 separate spiders as I went along. The 4th one respawned instantly forcing me to kill it again while the 3 previous spiders still had not respawned.

I am all for dynamically adjusting spawn times based on the number of people in the zone. But it should have better bounds checking. Instead of allowing a spawn time of 0 to ever be set at least give the players enough time to move away from the spot. It should also have less variance to avoid those cases where you kill everything in sight and the last mob standing just decided to become immortal and respawn over and over and over and over while all of his friends stay laying face down in the dirt.

meh either way its pretty minor. TB questing is fine minus occasionally getting graveyard camped by a group of alliance mad about losing again.
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100 Night Elf Druid
11245
I know I'm probably in the minority here, but I really enjoy the fact that I can (and do) occasionally die doing these dailies.

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85 Goblin Warlock
3155
I personaly dont enjoy the tol barad dailys whatsoever.

I loved the isle of queldonis and I loved the argent tourny.

For some reason i dont find this new set fun.
Edited by Grimgol on 3/3/2011 4:19 PM PST
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85 Draenei Death Knight
11365
03/03/2011 4:06 PMPosted by Nightbear
I know I'm probably in the minority here, but I really enjoy the fact that I can (and do) occasionally die doing these dailies.


Whenever I went into cataclysm I still aoe'd down packs of 3-5 at a time leveling. But man oh man was I in for a ride whenever I first rounded up my 10 level 80 cataclysm mobs and got owned. It feels good to actually have to heal again, oh, and to actually have mobs last long enough that my diseases actually tick and do damage.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
5360
03/03/2011 3:34 PMPosted by Zarhym
Are there any plans to add new areas like this? I'd love to see an IQD 2.0.

There are plans for a new daily quest hub in Mount Hyjal to be released in conjunction with the Firelands raid. We're planning to make it phase and unlock more content as players progress, very similar to Isle of Quel'Danas. One downside of the phasing and unlocking of new buildings/quests there though, was that you had to be participating during the world event to actually see the change take place. We'd like to make the Mount Hyjal hub phase per player so that your personal progress unlocks new content for you, rather than for your whole realm.

We'll have more details about that a little later though. ;)

The amount of phasing is overboard already, please, no more phased content.
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85 Human Paladin
5085
03/03/2011 4:06 PMPosted by Nightbear
I know I'm probably in the minority here, but I really enjoy the fact that I can (and do) occasionally die doing these dailies.

+1

a lot of deaths i see people getting themselves into while doing TB dailies are just common sense mistakes.

dont run into the middle of 5 things and sit there
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27 Goblin Shaman
120
03/03/2011 3:41 PMPosted by Zarhym
At the same time though, I think if we spaced everything out according to what players are asking for in this thread, we'd see at least an equivalent number of complaints about how the distance between all questing points of interest is too far -- that traveling around the zones to quest just takes forever on land mounts.


Complaining is WoW's only balanced PvP.

So, maybe people would engage if you changed Tol Barad to be larger. But this just sounds like self-justifying nonsense to me.

You have a host of people in this thread who are of a mind on the arduous design of Tol Barad. This thread is not the first and won't be the last. Tol Barad has already been tweaked to account for these kinds of complaints -- and these complaints continue to happen.

I don't think it's fair to tell people their concerns aren't valid because of some fictional group of players who love the current cramped design and will jealously defend it. Where are they now? Here is a thread will Blue in -- why aren't they piping up in droves to champion the area as is?


Edit: I enjoy that above me there are now four people saying they like it as it is.
Edited by Tidel on 3/3/2011 4:26 PM PST
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100 Dwarf Warrior
17485
I don't mind the instant respawns. The only thing that bothers me is trying to get ground spawns when being constantly instantly spawned on. All 3 of the prison wings should have the ground spawns also drop from mobs like the rations.
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85 Human Hunter
9055
03/03/2011 3:13 PMPosted by Zarhym
The spawntimes do make me frown though. Killing something than having it instantly respawn on your face isnt a challenge, it's annoying. Although granted waiting for a mob to respawn while 7 other people need 12 of the same thing is also annoying. Catch 22.

It is sort of a catch 22 and a side effect of dynamic spawning. When there are a finite number of spawn points for certain creature types, and the rate of spawning is determined by the number of players in the area, this can lead to instant respawns at specific locations. We still feel that's preferable to set spawn times regardless of player population in the area.

I know I'd rather have a few creatures spawn on top of me and have to prepare for that potential outcome, than camp out and really fight with nearby players to get my quests done.


While I agree with you, what I think needs to be done (and is feasible) would be to add logic to this dynamic spawning to prevent mobs from spawning on top of players who are currently fighting another mob, or have just killed one. This is especially annoying in spaces where 3 or more mobs spawn within a few yards of each other. You kill one, work on the second, and the first respawns, and so on and so forth.
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85 Orc Hunter
7270
03/03/2011 4:26 PMPosted by Jumpz
what about the pvp in TB? the whole point of the zone is to promote world pvp, but it's the worst place in the world to be fighting. mobs are everywhere. some of them are invisible. the winner in a lot of fights is the person with fewer mobs aggroed. obviously thats heavily biased against classes that need to kite. normally i love picking a fight with multiple allies, but here i just don't want to, because i'll probably get dazed by NPC rogues, or forced to run through a minefield of dense mobs.

This. The spiders are the worst offenders for this, because not only is their population within the forest INCREDIBLY dense, but they also have an annoying root, in addition to the usual NPC daze effect.
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85 Human Death Knight
0
03/03/2011 4:03 PMPosted by Bramthor

It is sort of a catch 22 and a side effect of dynamic spawning. When there are a finite number of spawn points for certain creature types, and the rate of spawning is determined by the number of players in the area, this can lead to instant respawns at specific locations. We still feel that's preferable to set spawn times regardless of player population in the area.

I know I'd rather have a few creatures spawn on top of me and have to prepare for that potential outcome, than camp out and really fight with nearby players to get my quests done.


Theres a simple fix (conceptually, not sure if technically) to that. For 5 seconds after mobs spawn they will not start attacking unless attacked first. After 5 seconds, they behave normally.


^This
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no youre not in the minority, believe it or not there are a lot of people who enjoy actually having some risk of actually dying

how much easier can wow possibility get? You have little risk of dying to begin with, and the only thing death means is a 20 second risk-free jog back to your corpose and 4 seconds rebuffing

its refreshing that in TB you actually have to be aware of how you run around mobs, how you position yourself to engage them so you dont get ganged by several

the way things are going this game is going to be a single lever at the lowbie zone that instantly gets you to 85 (because *cry* thats booooooring) and then another lever once you get to 85 to get you full epics (because *cry* thats so much tiiiiiime). Then a 3rd lever you pull to post on the boards about how the game is boring (there's noooothiiiing to doooooo)
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85 Orc Hunter
7270
its refreshing that in TB you actually have to be aware of how you run around mobs, how you position yourself to engage them so you dont get ganged by several

the way things are going this game is going to be a single lever at the lowbie zone that instantly gets you to 85 (because *cry* thats booooooring) and then another lever once you get to 85 to get you full epics (because *cry* thats so much tiiiiiime). Then a 3rd lever you pull to post on the boards about how the game is boring (there's noooothiiiing to doooooo)


There's a difference of having to be aware of how you run around mobs and not having enough room to PvP because your class requires you to have a 60 yard area to run around and kite in. Tol'barad literally doesn't have enough space for hunters to function in PvP. The island is just plain too cramped.
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90 Human Warrior
16520
My main issue is that you cannot loot your kill and move away in any reasonable amount of time. On many occasions, the same add will spawn at the instant that it is killed. This is not right and I do not understand why 'blue' is trying to defend it.

On other occasions, it will not spawn instantly. As the spawn time is random and area is busy, sometimes you have to go deep into zone to get to the add to kill (that add may then re-spawn repeatedly as soon as it is killed - together with near-by add that also attacks you). If that happens, moving away is not a good solution as you may run into another add that has spawned.

I do think that lowering spawn rate will create more problems as the area is over-populated with the people doing same quests. So I would not like to see this.

The possible solutions are:
1. make area big (this seems the correct way to go - so Blizz, you got size wrong)
2. reduce agro area of adds (IMHO impossible as they are packed too tight in this small space but it may help slightly)
3. make them into 'yellow' adds, instead of 'red' (do not like this as then it will really be under-tuned)

What annoys me especially is that 'blue' is trying to defend design that is clearly wrong (kill where you cannot loot). I would prefer to get some acknowledgment of the issue if it is fixed or not. This way at least I know that they will not make the same mistake with the next quest hub.

And yes, once over-geared this is not an issue but it is also neither challenging nor interesting.

It is probably not worth to fix this at this stage (not a problem once over-geared) but please design the next hub so that I can kill and loot.
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95 Undead Warlock
8300
In all due respect, wanting a challenge =/= elitism.

To echo what others have said, Tol Barad wasn't and isn't challenging, it's just annoying. I was fine doing dailies during the first week of the expansion when spawns were nuts and I was in greens as Affliction. CCing stuff and moving along isn't "challenging". The fel armor change made it even more annoying, so I'm quite thrilled that I don't have to do them anymore.

But I think I just don't like dailies, haha.
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100 Night Elf Rogue
18410
03/03/2011 3:34 PMPosted by Zarhym
We'd like to make the Mount Hyjal hub phase per player so that your personal progress unlocks new content for you, rather than for your whole realm.


Blizzard's not a big fan of the whole "feeling like you have an impact on the game world" thing anymore?

That's disappointing.
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its refreshing that in TB you actually have to be aware of how you run around mobs, how you position yourself to engage them so you dont get ganged by several

the way things are going this game is going to be a single lever at the lowbie zone that instantly gets you to 85 (because *cry* thats booooooring) and then another lever once you get to 85 to get you full epics (because *cry* thats so much tiiiiiime). Then a 3rd lever you pull to post on the boards about how the game is boring (there's noooothiiiing to doooooo)


There's a difference of having to be aware of how you run around mobs and not having enough room to PvP because your class requires you to have a 60 yard area to run around and kite in. Tol'barad literally doesn't have enough space for hunters to function in PvP. The island is just plain too cramped.


i have trouble taking what you say seriously when you complain about webbing spiders when you can just engage them at the edges from 1 of many bridges and roads and go around them

ya i had the same thing happen the first time i stepped foot into TB and tried to ride through the middle, got webbed/dismounted, and got gibbed. It only took once to learn that lesson though
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