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85 Worgen Warrior
3290
03/16/2011 7:26 AMPosted by Shrymp
whats up with that? how the hell do people have 5% hit and do ridiculous dps?


I don't know exactly the way you play, but the difference between 8% hit players and 11-12%+ hit players is rotation discipline. My guess is your rotation is a bit off, and you aren't maximizing your best damage-per-rage abilities.


im using CS -> BT -> RB -> BT > slam procs and HS only above 60 rage. ill admit i sometimes forget to use CS. but that shuldnt hinder me from going above 12k dps with less than 10% hit....will it?
85 Worgen Warrior
2835
03/16/2011 7:46 AMPosted by Fiura
im using CS -> BT -> RB -> BT > slam procs and HS only above 60 rage. ill admit i sometimes forget to use CS. but that shuldnt hinder me from going above 12k dps with less than 10% hit....will it?


Forget to use it as in right when it's on cooldown? For the rest of the fight? Lol, I don't think that's what you mean... forgetting to use it for 10 seconds? It'll hurt you, but not that significantly.

As for your rotation, it seems pretty solid, or at least nothing that would make that large of a dps difference.

My next thought is that perhaps you just got hit by bad RNG and your sample wasn't indicative of your potential DPS population, if that makes sense. Basically, bad statistics.

Where did you get your 12k number?

The only real good way to test this (OTHER THAN SIMULATION) is to do 3 parses of 10M damage on a target dummy with your current hit build, and then change to 8% hit and do the same thing. HOWEVER, you should practice with the 8% hit for a while to get the feel of it. Most people can't make that instantaneous switch.
85 Worgen Warrior
3290
03/16/2011 8:00 AMPosted by Shrymp
im using CS -> BT -> RB -> BT > slam procs and HS only above 60 rage. ill admit i sometimes forget to use CS. but that shuldnt hinder me from going above 12k dps with less than 10% hit....will it?


Forget to use it as in right when it's on cooldown? For the rest of the fight? Lol, I don't think that's what you mean... forgetting to use it for 10 seconds? It'll hurt you, but not that significantly.

As for your rotation, it seems pretty solid, or at least nothing that would make that large of a dps difference.

My next thought is that perhaps you just got hit by bad RNG and your sample wasn't indicative of your potential DPS population, if that makes sense. Basically, bad statistics.

Where did you get your 12k number?

The only real good way to test this (OTHER THAN SIMULATION) is to do 3 parses of 10M damage on a target dummy with your current hit build, and then change to 8% hit and do the same thing. HOWEVER, you should practice with the 8% hit for a while to get the feel of it. Most people can't make that instantaneous switch.



hahaha no not the whole fight...like sometimes i wont notice the cooldown is up...so i end up using it like 3-5 seconds after the cooldown is up. sometimes i wait a second or two to pool rage and then use it. so i can use BTx2 RBx1 and 2 HS(or as much as i can pump out). during the CS window.

the 12k was over a few heroics and a BOT trash run or two.

by 3 parses, you mean like do 10m, reset and do that two more times? Alright ill give that a shot. Also the hit rating on my character includes the 3% from precision correct?
1 Human Warrior
0
Quickly, I need to know how much mastery you need for RB to do more than Slam.
85 Human Warrior
6595
14% +
85 Human Warrior
4485
03/16/2011 8:43 AMPosted by Huanxh
Quickly, I need to know how much mastery you need for RB to do more than Slam.


14ish. But even then you'd still want to prefer slam due to it being rage free (unless you're going to rage cap), I personally wouldn't prefer raging blow until 15 mastery.
Edited by Collision on 3/16/2011 1:07 PM PDT
1 Human Warrior
0
So hit is going to be better than mastery without a doubt if the 40% damage on precision stays right? No more of this !*** where they're pretty much equal?
85 Night Elf Warrior
1510
Pandemur,

Just glancing at your armory, there is alot of stuff you can do to optimize your character.

Head enchant, but being that you're only two days at 85 that's probably why you are missing it.

Get 3x 67 Str Gems in.

Your gem in your chest should be 20str/20crit only because if you have an yellow socket with +10str bonus does it outweigh a 40 str gem. It's very small, but if you figure that strength in most SMF builds equals 1 normalized EP, then a 40 str gem equals 40 EP. Crit you can figure equals about .52 EP, 20 str + 10 str (Socket Bonus) + 20 Crit*(.52) = 40.4 EP. You're about 50 points over expertise cap. I would start by reforging the expertise on Magnetite Mirror to Crit and then mess around with a few other reforges to balance it out. You can reforge a good deal of hit to mastery because with anything more than 8% you are going to be dumping too much into heroic strike. The easiest thing to do is just to import your character into chardev.org and mess around with it til you can get your values as close to what I list below.

As a rule of thumb and please correct me if you think I'm mistaken is that for SMF - 8% hit > 26 Exp > Str > Crit > Mastery > Haste = Hit

This does not coincide with simcraft absolutley and will likely change in 4.1 but in 4.06 there is so much enviromental damage especially as you move into raids that you are gaining alot of rage from unavoidable damage that you take. What happens with that extra rage is that it gets converted into heroic strike or worse, capped and lost and current sims have heroic strike being quite inefficient damage per rage since the nerf.



From collision's first post:

STR > 8% hit > 6.5% expertise > crit > 8-13% hit => mastery > 27% hit > haste

That's why i reforge my mastery in HIT...Still playing with that. might go back on that.
85 Human Warrior
4485
03/16/2011 2:01 PMPosted by Huanxh
So hit is going to be better than mastery without a doubt if the 40% damage on precision stays right? No more of this !*** where they're pretty much equal?


Yeah, crit/hit will be our best secondary stats after 4.1.
85 Orc Warrior
6830
03/16/2011 3:10 PMPosted by Collision
So hit is going to be better than mastery without a doubt if the 40% damage on precision stays right? No more of this !*** where they're pretty much equal?


Yeah, crit/hit will be our best secondary stats after 4.1.


IF it stays. They have already redesigned C smash for 100% PVE and 50% PVP and have reverted the other changes to offensive abilities.

Def didnt' see the Precision buff reverted, but I'm not crossing my fingers.
1 Human Warrior
0
03/16/2011 3:10 PMPosted by Collision
So hit is going to be better than mastery without a doubt if the 40% damage on precision stays right? No more of this !*** where they're pretty much equal?


Yeah, crit/hit will be our best secondary stats after 4.1.


Well I hope it stays. I can't stand having low amounts of hit.
85 Worgen Warrior
9800
I've been trying to sim 4.1 currently but can't for whatever reason get simcraft even when I pull the drop down tab to PTR to get it to model at all. It insists on modeling in 4.06.

I would however anticipate that after 6.5 Exp and 8% hit, that values for SMF are something like STR > Crit > Hit > Haste > Mastery. Once hit gets fairly high I can imagine that we will be rage capped much more frequently so with this change I think we can expect to be mashing heroic strike alot more frequently once gear has been adjusted.
85 Orc Warrior
6830

I would however anticipate that after 6.5 Exp and 8% hit, that values for SMF are something like STR > Crit > Hit > Haste > Mastery. Once hit gets fairly high I can imagine that we will be rage capped much more frequently so with this change I think we can expect to be mashing heroic strike alot more frequently once gear has been adjusted.



Haste is no longer the worst stat?! MAYBE???!?!?!?

About freaking time.













85 Night Elf Warrior
1510
Well..all that being said, with my current gear i get about 14k max in dungeons. Havent tried in Raids yet.

That is when hiting RB when around 50-60 rage.

HS when 80 rage +

Prio on Slam.

BT as soon as up.
85 Human Warrior
4485
I've been trying to sim 4.1 currently but can't for whatever reason get simcraft even when I pull the drop down tab to PTR to get it to model at all. It insists on modeling in 4.06.

I would however anticipate that after 6.5 Exp and 8% hit, that values for SMF are something like STR > Crit > Hit > Haste > Mastery. Once hit gets fairly high I can imagine that we will be rage capped much more frequently so with this change I think we can expect to be mashing heroic strike alot more frequently once gear has been adjusted.


You are probably right. I'm going to wait until 4.1 is set in stone with the changes before I do anymore testing/simcrafting, I hate having to redo numbers 5 times before a patch is released.
85 Human Warrior
4485
I got a question for you guys. i read the posts about only needing 8% hit (or 5% not counting precision) for fury. my hit was around 12% and i reforged and went down to below 10% ( like 9.6 i think). suddenly i took a huge dps hit. i could no longer get above 11-13k. so i reforged back to 12% (and got some new gear as well) and now im doing 16k or more dps. whats up with that? how the hell do people have 5% hit and do ridiculous dps?. oh and not only am i doing far less dps when i have less than 10% hit, im also rage starved too.

any help would be great. for the time being im staying above 12% hit.


My initial post specifically says that the level of hit that you need can vary from 8-13% depending on a variety of factors. Generally the better your gear, the less hit you need. In your gear it's better to stay toward the 13% end of the spectrum.


Giving a shout out to my fellow SMF guide. PVP and you!

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2057325819

I'm by no means a pvp master, so hopefully that will answer any questions you people have about that part of the game.
Edited by Collision on 3/16/2011 10:55 PM PDT
85 Worgen Warrior
3290
I got a question for you guys. i read the posts about only needing 8% hit (or 5% not counting precision) for fury. my hit was around 12% and i reforged and went down to below 10% ( like 9.6 i think). suddenly i took a huge dps hit. i could no longer get above 11-13k. so i reforged back to 12% (and got some new gear as well) and now im doing 16k or more dps. whats up with that? how the hell do people have 5% hit and do ridiculous dps?. oh and not only am i doing far less dps when i have less than 10% hit, im also rage starved too.

any help would be great. for the time being im staying above 12% hit.


My initial post specifically says that the level of hit that you need can vary from 8-13% depending on a variety of factors. Generally the better your gear, the less hit you need. In your gear it's better to stay toward the 13% end of the spectrum.


Your right, i my bad. i musta missed that part or misunderstood what you said. now i understand what you meant. ill probably bring hit back up a lil bit. see how that goes. although with the precision buff next patch wont we want a ton of hit again?
85 Orc Warrior
6830
I just saw you can no longer activate Synapse springs with/(while it's up) Fury of Angerforge. I didn't realize that many people were or w/e.


And oh I loved Blowing SS, FoA, and Orc Racial together....oh well.
85 Human Warrior
4485
I just saw you can no longer activate Synapse springs with/(while it's up) Fury of Angerforge. I didn't realize that many people were or w/e.


And oh I loved Blowing SS, FoA, and Orc Racial together....oh well.


That's mostly a PVP change there. It does kind of suck for PVE, but not enough that it would change trinket priorities.
85 Night Elf Warrior
9730
Anyone else worried for an incoming SMF change? Remember when people were realising that one was pulling drastically ahead of the other and they said they wanted to keep them balanced. Precision change gives SMF more than TG and the mastery reduction hits RB which effects TG more so following blizzard logic i'm expecting us to get hit down to their level.
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