Outdated SMF guide. Please remove sticky. :)

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1 Human Warrior
0
Guess it doesn't really matter but BiS MH for you BiS list should be Al'Akir sword with the crit/hit.

Not that something like that would ever drop for anybody though.
85 Human Warrior
4485
Guess it doesn't really matter but BiS MH for you BiS list should be Al'Akir sword with the crit/hit.

Not that something like that would ever drop for anybody though.


Yeah, I tried to avoid putting drops from that zone on the BIS list simply due to how unlikely it is for the perfectly itemized sword to drop. I haven't even seen a single person with a sword from that dude, let alone someone with a crit/hit version of it.

03/17/2011 9:40 PMPosted by Angryllama
Anyone else worried for an incoming SMF change? Remember when people were realising that one was pulling drastically ahead of the other and they said they wanted to keep them balanced. Precision change gives SMF more than TG and the mastery reduction hits RB which effects TG more so following blizzard logic i'm expecting us to get hit down to their level.


I think the precision change is roughly equal for both specs, honestly. TG might even get a little more out of it.

The mastery change certainly hurts TG more than SMF, though.

Worst case scenario they'll just tweak the SMF bonus back down to 15%, I don't think they're going to make drastic changes. At the moment all simulations are pointing toward TG/ARMS/SMF being within 1-2% of each other.
90 Blood Elf Warrior
8800
I would like to report that I am in possession of the crit/hit sword off Al'Akir. It does exist!

Also. I'm glad the sims are showing all three specs to be very close to each other. Let's hope it stays that like that when the patch hits.
85 Worgen Warrior
2835
I'm jeally.
I would like to report that I am in possession of the crit/hit sword off Al'Akir. It does exist!

Also. I'm glad the sims are showing all three specs to be very close to each other. Let's hope it stays that like that when the patch hits.

I hate you.
85 Orc Warrior
6830
Haha very nice.

EDIT:

As to not waste another post...after long experimentation with Avalanche and Hurricane, I prefer Hurricane in all situations. DPS difference was marginal, certain situations Hurricane shined gloriously, but rage generation is just overall better and to me that trumps SEP value.

RAGE = MOAR DPS

not to be mistaken with irl rage or road rage
Edited by Heinekenz on 3/18/2011 8:39 PM PDT
85 Human Warrior
5275
Even thought the al'akir sword is better itemized killing heroic mag is a way better chance at a close 2nd. I hate heroic al'akir loot in general other then the essence that drops. Putting random stats on what could be bis is annoying.
85 Human Warrior
4130
thanks for posting this, Collision! Prot warrior with a really crap DPS offspec set and no clue how to use it here. This helped me out a bit!

Also hello fellow Achimondian :D
1 Human Warrior
0
So with higher gear levels HS starts to hit pretty hard again.

You think 7/31/3 will eventually be better again?
85 Worgen Warrior
2835
So with higher gear levels HS starts to hit pretty hard again.

You think 7/31/3 will eventually be better again?



I've been thinking this myself. In raids, I use Heroic Strike so damn much it's ridiculous (excess rage generation from environmental damage). It certainly does more damage than my Deep Wounds.

Example: last night in BoT. We got Valiona on the 2nd try, and I lead the raid with 18k dps. Here's my log from last night (we also tried AC 15 times):

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/5lf7e8xkn12xwluq/details/8/

Heroic Strike had 10% damage while Deep Wounds only had 5%. AC has lots of environmental damage so I had a LOT of rage being generated.

I'm thinking of respeccing and putting 3 into Incite and only 2 into DW. Thoughts?
Edited by Shrymp on 3/21/2011 7:31 AM PDT
85 Orc Warrior
3275
So with higher gear levels HS starts to hit pretty hard again.

You think 7/31/3 will eventually be better again?



I've been thinking this myself. In raids, I use Heroic Strike so damn much it's ridiculous (excess rage generation from environmental damage). It certainly does more damage than my Deep Wounds.

Example: last night in BoT. We got Valiona on the 2nd try, and I lead the raid with 18k dps. Here's my log from last night (we also tried AC 15 times):

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/5lf7e8xkn12xwluq/details/8/

Heroic Strike had 10% damage while Deep Wounds only had 5%. AC has lots of environmental damage so I had a LOT of rage being generated.

I'm thinking of respeccing and putting 3 into Incite and only 2 into DW. Thoughts?


Taking a point away from Deep Wounds and putting it into Incite is a matter of preference. I have tried both and it does not make a huge difference. If you are the type to hit HS almost every cool down then I could see how it would have an impact on your DPS. Remember, when you take a point away from DW, your 48% of average melee weapon damage over 6 seconds drops down to 32%. As far as putting the point into Incite, you gain about 5% crit for your heroic strikes. I personally have no problems with HS critting, so I have the point in DW.
85 Worgen Warrior
2835
03/21/2011 10:12 AMPosted by Healsponge
Taking a point away from Deep Wounds and putting it into Incite is a matter of preference. I have tried both and it does not make a huge difference. If you are the type to hit HS almost every cool down then I could see how it would have an impact on your DPS. Remember, when you take a point away from DW, your 48% of average melee weapon damage over 6 seconds drops down to 32%. As far as putting the point into Incite, you gain about 5% crit for your heroic strikes. I personally have no problems with HS critting, so I have the point in DW.


Well, I don't hit HS on every cooldown as a matter of habit, but when I'm being spammed with envrionmental damage and I have massive amounts of rage income, then I have the ability to do so (at the VERY least I usually hit HS once/twice per CS rotation). So I don't spam it (I maximize my rotation), but at the same time I feel like additional HS crit potential would be more beneficial than DW.

Looking at my SimCraft simulations, HS was critting 40% of the time. So would a 3/3 Incite help me?

I need to run another Sim, but my character is in tanking gear now, so I need to wait until tonight or tomorrow when I log out with my DPS gear.
85 Human Warrior
4485
It's possible that 7/31/3 could outdo 8/31/2 on certain encounters with a lot of consistent environmental damage--Chimaeron is really the only encounter I could imagine this happening on at the moment. The higher rage income we have, the better 7/31/3 will become simply because we will be using heroic strike more often.

The difference in 7/31/3 and 8/31/2 has never been significant in cataclysm. At best it has been a 300-500 dps difference.

What's the tipping point for when 7/31/3 could become better? I don't think we'll hit it for a while outside of certain boss mechanics. We'd have to get back to spamming heroic strike every 4-5 seconds in order for 7/31/3 to creep ahead for most encounters, and we're not going to have the rage income to do that for at least another tier.

It does appear that Blizzard is finally finished with tweaking warriors for 4.1.

If everything stands as-is at the moment, the only thing that will change for SMF is the stat priority. Rotations/priorities/whatever else will remain the same.

STR > 8% hit > 6.5% Expertise > Crit > 27% hit > haste => mastery

Rough SEP values: Gear-dependent, but generally the priority remains the same regardless of how your good your gear is.
Crit: .6
Hit: .5
Haste: .4
Mastery: .38

Haste isn't far ahead of mastery, and on encounters with significant environmental damage it'll probably drop below mastery. Generally though, you're going to be reforging everything from haste/mastery to crit/hit, and avoiding any piece of gear that has BOTH haste and mastery on it (Tier gloves, I'm looking at you.)
Edited by Collision on 3/23/2011 12:09 AM PDT
85 Worgen Warrior
2835
Thanks, Collision. I guess my thoughts were similar, but seeing that DW puts out only 3-400k of my damage is disappointing. I think I might rather have the Incite. I disagree that Chima is the only fight that's useful on-- check out my log from last night on Valiona:

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/41f706c7a9hiq9v9/sum/damageDone/?s=8945&e=9285

HS: 16.3%
DW: 5.9%

I was getting so much excess rage I was using HS twice during CS and also while CS was unavailable. Just ridiculous amounts of rage. Granted, I was probably standing in a few of those twilight meteorites or whatever, but my healers weren't complaining (and I was watching my health bar-- they do minimal damage)... but regardless, I enjoyed that extra rage income.

As for 4.1 stats, I ran myself and my SEP values came out to be Crit=.7, hit=.65, and mastery/haste were .4ish. So then I go look at Landsoul and he has 8% hit and everything else into mastery. I ran his setup through SimCraft and I got an SEP value for hit of 0.9, with mastery being in the 0.4 range. I feel like he should be reforging to hit, but I know he knows his sh*t, so I was wondering if maybe he's ultimately relying on the environmental damage to add rage income, thereby effectively reducing the SEP of hit? That way, he can pump everything into Mastery and hit harder with RB and DW, and still have decent rage income. But also, with the few times we actually use RB, is it worth it? Would more hit be worth it for him, especially considering the Precision and Mastery changes in 4.1?

Also, I've decided not to get any of the tier pieces except maybe the Legs, helm, and maybe chest (since deathplate is close enough). The raid drops or BOE's are far superior. I'll be spending my precious Valor Points on my tanking set (which I do about 50% of the time we raid). Gearing for both specs is annoying.

Is the 4-piece bonus worth it? Does it make up for the massive amounts of haste on the set pieces? I probably won't get the 4-piece DPS set anytime soon so I'm not too concerned, but still.
Edited by Shrymp on 3/23/2011 5:15 AM PDT
90 Worgen Warrior
7075
03/23/2011 12:00 AMPosted by Collision
It does appear that Blizzard is finally finished with tweaking warriors for 4.1.

We're probably set for the rest of the expansion, barring a few slight adjustments along the way. All in all, they've been good to the class this expansion. I'm still stinging from the TG nerf in early Wrath.
I've raided both SMF & TG, both feel good. I'm waiting to choose which I'll settle on based on how everyone else specs in 4.1, (trying to keep weapon distribution even.)

I do have one question. Please correct me if I'm wrong but I'm not seeing much difference between TG & SMF.

Rotation: same for both (CS on CD), with a few exceptions on which is more effective:
SMF: BT> Slam > RB
TG: BT > RB > Slam


Stats: (main foundation is same, slightly differs on lower stats)
SMF: STR > 8% hit > 26 Exp > Crit > 27% hit > haste => mastery
TG: STR > 8% hit > 26 Exp > Crit > Mastery > Hit to 27% > Haste

Am I seeing this correctly?
Edited by Heavygear on 3/23/2011 7:29 AM PDT
85 Worgen Warrior
2835
I do have one question, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not seeing much difference between TG & SMF.

Rotation: same for both, exception is SMF prioritizes BT, TG prioritizes RB

Stats: (main foundation is same, slightly differs on lower stats)
SMF: STR > 8% hit > 26 Exp > Crit > 27% hit > haste => mastery
TG: STR > 8% hit > 26 Exp > Crit > Mastery > Hit to 27% > Haste

Am I seeing this correctly?


Pretty much, although RB > Slam for TG. BT is still #1. For SMF, Slam > RB.

As for the difference, it's negligible. Your choice should be gear-dependent. If you happen to get full 372 epics, then yeah, SMF will be ahead of TG.
90 Worgen Warrior
7075
Thanks for the reply, updated.
85 Human Warrior
4485
One thing that should be mentioned is that with the 5 (6?) mastery that we're losing with 4.1, RB may fall down to the point (for SMF, at the least) that heroic strike is an equal or even better attack.

IF this happened, then we would probably migrate to the 7/31/3 spec as we would be using heroic strike a lot more often.

I'll have to try it out and see, right now simcraft isn't showing that we've lost that base mastery as it's taking the stats directly from the armory. I'll mess around with it tomorrow.

This is just sheer speculation, of course.
85 Human Warrior
4485
So then I go look at Landsoul and he has 8% hit and everything else into mastery. I ran his setup through SimCraft and I got an SEP value for hit of 0.9, with mastery being in the 0.4 range. I feel like he should be reforging to hit, but I know he knows his sh*t, so I was wondering if maybe he's ultimately relying on the environmental damage to add rage income, thereby effectively reducing the SEP of hit?


Yep. Just like I said in one of the original posts, environmental damage isn't accounted for at all in simcraft unless you force it in and would bring down the value of hit significantly. The values I posted are based on consistent environmental damage every 10-20 seconds.

Is the 4-piece bonus worth it? Does it make up for the massive amounts of haste on the set pieces? I probably won't get the 4-piece DPS set anytime soon so I'm not too concerned, but still.


Yep. It's worth roughly 150-200 strength depending on what you have on.
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