Outdated SMF guide. Please remove sticky. :)

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85 Worgen Warrior
2835
Roger that.

I remember your posts on EJ about including environmental damage into the sims. Were you ever able to do that effectively enough to normalize the value of hit for 359/372 gear?
85 Orc Warrior
6530
I noticed you Reforged some gear into mastery when your only 5.63% hit?
wouldnt it be better to reforge for hit til 13% then forge for mastery?

That is what i got from the guide atleast...
64 Human Hunter
350
How about 2.8 speed weapons? I considered going for a pair of Cookie Tenderizers on my Warrior, but is it worth it? Or am I fine with 2.6 with this spec?
85 Worgen Warrior
2835
2.8 is maximizing, but is it worth running Deadmines a dozen times? Uggghhhh I dunno :)
85 Human Warrior
4485
I noticed you Reforged some gear into mastery when your only 5.63% hit?
wouldnt it be better to reforge for hit til 13% then forge for mastery?

That is what i got from the guide atleast...


If you read the entire thing you'll understand why. I actually have 8% hit, the 3% from precision doesn't show up.
85 Orc Warrior
3275
Ok, so. Maybe I am crazy but here is something that annoys me with my rotation sometimes. Knowing that I want to maximize my DPS during CS, what I normally shoot for is BT then Slam. Something I have noticed is Slam likes to proc a little after your GCD is up, so basically by the time I see Slam proc I have already hit RB.

Has anyone else had this happen to them? It seems to happen a lot and I don't want to delay my rotation by waiting for slam proc. Like I said, it's possible I am just crazy.
85 Human Warrior
4485
I must be blessed with my latency as I can generally hit a proc'd slam right after BT before the GCD happens. There are definitely some moments where I fumble and hit RB instead, though.

If you have crappy latency and the bloodsurge proc doesn't appear until too late, then you'll just have to deal with it and prioritize accordingly.
85 Human Warrior
4485
03/24/2011 4:46 AMPosted by Shrymp
Were you ever able to do that effectively enough to normalize the value of hit for 359/372 gear?


Sort of. That's where my values from the first post come from, they assume a low level of environmental damage. Otherwise the value for hit would be significantly higher.

I'm kind of glad 4.1 makes this argument easy, it's a pain in the ass right now.
Edited by Collision on 3/24/2011 10:15 PM PDT
85 Worgen Warrior
2835
Were you ever able to do that effectively enough to normalize the value of hit for 359/372 gear?


Sort of. That's where my values from the first post come from, they assume a low level of environmental damage. Otherwise the value for hit would be significantly higher.

I'm kind of glad 4.1 makes this argument easy, it's a pain in the ass right now.


LOL. Yeah, I noticed your hit SEP values are lower than mine when I run naked SimCraft. I assumed that you had made the adjustments as you had theorized on EJ. Good to know!

Is there a way to find out where that happy medium is for any specific person/equipment set-up? For example, if you pumped my profile into SC and ran it based on your parameters, where would that sweet spot of hit/mastery trad-eoff be? Hit around 10%? 11%?

Is there a way to identify that optimal point by creating a function, maximizing it, and then graphing it? I guess it might be a pretty rough function... but I envision a hit:mastery ratio on the X versus DPS on the Y-axis. Of course, this would have to be done in an individual basis. There's not really a way to account for gear differences unless you run it for each individual.
Edited by Shrymp on 3/25/2011 4:58 AM PDT
I'm sorry if this is a really stupid question but what does this actually mean?

STR > 8% hit > 6.5% Expertise > Crit > 27% hit > haste => mastery


Does it mean strength is better ONCE I have 8% hit and 6.5% expertise? Or does it mean I should prioritise strength over hit?? (Which I don't understand because as there's no strength cap - or not one we'll ever hit - when would I then get around to hit???)
Edited by Krinje on 3/26/2011 1:58 AM PDT
100 Orc Warrior
12740


'm sorry if this is a really stupid question but what does this actually mean?

STR > 8% hit > 6.5% Expertise > Crit > 27% hit > haste => mastery


Does it mean strength is better ONCE I have 8% hit and 6.5% expertise? Or does it mean I should prioritise strength over hit?? (Which I don't understand because as there's no strength cap - or not one we'll ever hit - when would I then get around to hit???)


Strength is your main stat and will give you the most raw DPS. Keeping that in mind you still need a minimum of 8% hit, 6.5% expertise. After that you can start aiming for secondary DPS stats through gems that give str/secondary stat or through reforging.
85 Dwarf Warrior
5975
You should always take 1 Str over 1 of any other stat. Usually you'll want to gem/enchant Str everywhere possible. The only exception is if the socket bonus is +20 Str or higher.

I put Crit on every piece because I want to maximize my Flurry and Deep Wounds up time. I'm currently sitting at around 19% Crit and 13% Hit with 26 Exp(of course), my DPS is pretty great.

I love how consistent and reliable SMF damage is and dual Soul Blades are great. I use them to PvP now and only bring out my Vicious weapons for arena or when I'm being heavily focused, works quite well!
85 Worgen Warrior
2835
The reason it's written like that is because STR is your best stat. Period. However, you will not maximize your potential DPS if you're not at 8% hit and 26 expertise. Therefore, it could be written that STR=hit8%=26exp.

That said, STR and hit/expertise are not really stats that you "trade off" for each other... so you should be maximizing STR using enchants and gems, and worry about getting hit/expertise through reforging. Then comes Crit, hit to 26%, etc.
85 Orc Warrior
5465
I don't know if it's been mentioned yet (if it has, I missed it) but if your race has a weapon expertise racial, PvP 1handers actually are a fairly viable choice for SMF, as the ~90 expertise from the racial offset the 97 resilience to some extent.

Obviously not really that great for the sword racial, but I know for Orcs you can get the two PvP fist weapons (or an axe and the offhand fist) for under 15 arena wins (3 weeks).

Downside is that you obviously can't forge away your racial, but nonetheless you can forge away exp elsewhere. Oh and um, fist weapons =/

EDIT: Yeah I actually like them too. A lot of people seem to hate the Wolverine claws, though.
Edited by Gantru on 3/26/2011 4:14 PM PDT
85 Dwarf Warrior
5975
I personally like fist weapons...they're so much more personal to stab your enemy so closely.

The PvP Weapons are not bad, but heroic ones are better unless you can manage to get the 2200 rating weapon. You are right about the racial bonus making them a lot better.
85 Human Warrior
4485
In regards to environmental damage affecting SEP values, I will have much more accurate numbers soon as they're fixing one of the issues that was hurting simcraft from modeling it.

Basically what happened beforehand:

I'd put in damage into the sim, and the character would die within 30 seconds as there are no healers. I then toggled "Infinite" health on my character so it wouldn't die, but a bug would give infinite health to the boss as well which prevented execute from being used.

Typically execute phase is <15% of the fight and hit is valued even less when the +25% haste buff is taken into account, so I just used the infinite health SEP values for the values I put on the first page. The actual value of hit is probably a little lower than what I said, which is why I have gone down to 8% hit on this character at the moment.

They're fixing the infinite health issue, so the sep values should be more accurate soon.
Edited by Collision on 3/26/2011 11:09 PM PDT
is (2) 1 handers the way to go now
85 Worgen Warrior
2835
Also known as SMF. And yes. But I encourage you to get weapons with intellect on them.
85 Human Warrior
4485
Considering 4.1 is coming out soon (Next week?) I'm not worried with making new numbers for 4.0.6 anymore, I ran some quick simulations and while the stat values did change somewhat with environmental damage, it wasn't enough to worry about.

This is what I ended up with considering heavy raid environmental damage.

STR > 8% hit > 6.5% Expertise > Crit > 27% hit > Haste > Mastery

It should be stated that Landsoul has noted that his spreadsheet currently has haste equal/slightly above hit but I'm not sure if he was talking about SMF or TG. My values are as follows for SMF.

4.1 numbers
STR: 1
Crit: .6
Hit: .53 (At 8%, the value will slowly go down the closer you get to 27%, but still above the others.)
Haste: .4
Mastery: .35 (Ignoring raging blow during execute.)

The overall priority doesn't change when you remove raid damage as the values aren't close enough. Hit/haste become slightly better, that's about it.

Raging blow hits really weakly thanks to the 6 mastery being removed, but it's still better than heroic strike.

Overall, not much has changed since my initial thoughts on the subject but I'll update it as necessary if new information/changes come up.
Edited by Collision on 3/30/2011 12:59 PM PDT
85 Human Warrior
4485
nevermind
Edited by Collision on 4/1/2011 5:46 PM PDT
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