Break the HHTD mod already.

14 Human Warrior
70
Cool I didn't know about this addon. I will download and use it now. Thanks OP!
90 Blood Elf Paladin
9980
03/08/2011 5:10 PMPosted by Mahlus
What was the justification for breaking AVR again?


This is a notice that we're making changes in 3.3.5 in attempts to break the ability for the AVR (Augmented Virtual Reality) mod to continue functioning. For those unaware, this mod allows players to draw in the 3D space of the game world, which can then be shared with others who are also using the mod. In some cases this manifests itself through drawing/tagging/defacing the game world, but more popularly is used to give visual guides for dungeon and raid encounters.

We're making this change for two reasons. The invasive nature of a mod altering and/or interacting with the game world (virtually or directly) is not intended and not something we will allow. World of Warcraft UI addons are never intended to interact with the game world itself. This is mirrored in our stance and restriction of model and texture alterations. The second reason is that it removes too much player reaction and decision-making while facing dungeon and raid encounters. While some other mods also work to this end, we find that AVR and the act of visualizing strategy within the game world simply goes beyond what we're willing to allow.

The change we're making in attempts to break the functionality is light in its touch and approach. When blocking any functionality we run the risk of affecting other mods, but we've targeted the changes as carefully as possible. If we find that the AVR mod (or any mod attempting to replicate its functions) are usable after 3.3.5 we will take further, more drastic steps.


It is worth noting once more that HHTD does not interact with the game world in any way, it only interacts with a UI element (nameplates). Addons which modify the appearance of UI elements (nameplates, unit frames, minimap, quest log, etc) have historically been fine with Blizzard, and I believe that should continue to be their stance.
Edited by Pertinacious on 3/8/2011 5:34 PM PST
90 Blood Elf Paladin
6040
03/08/2011 5:02 PMPosted by Pertinacious
So why are all of these people defending this addon and saying that it's just as easy to find a healer themselves. Shouldn't those people have no problem with this addon going away?


It bothers me because any move Blizzard makes to disable this addon will also disable numerous other addons.

It also bothers me because I don't feel users of this addon deserve to be penalized.

It also bothers me because disabling this addon is time and money Blizzard could better spend elsewhere. Taking no action is the default, you must justify the action. Nobody has.


But they wouldn't be penalized if it's just as easy to target people without the addon's assistance right? Unless the addon does something else that I'm not aware of.

I agree with you on the time/money stance though. It's also a huge waste of time for whoever made the addon (they aren't easy to make).

This addon is no different than if a healer used an addon that highlighted and/or marked low health, friendly players.
90 Blood Elf Warrior
8860
this add-on is only doing what good arena players do, target the healer first in a bg.

if anything, its a crutch for newer players to lean on. I guess I don't really agree with the way it works, but for someone who PvPs/PvPed a lot we wouldn't get this add-on. it only clutters the screen.

you know, like the ones that can actually hurt you?
85 Draenei Priest
5545
But they wouldn't be penalized if it's just as easy to target people without the addon's assistance right? Unless the addon does something else that I'm not aware of.


No constructive post said it's exactly as easy as non add-on. It sure does improve something, but what we're arguing is that this improving is not overpowered as some claim to be, and if used by everyone, will not break PvP healing.

Also, as pointed by many here and Pertinacious, breaking this add-on will probally break others or similar functions others addons have.

To break they will need to forbid to scan healing, or forbid to modify nameplates. They can do a exclusion rule for both, so that addons that are centered in modifying the nameplates don't break, or the addons that scan the nameplate don't break. Forbid to use scan heal plus nameplate modification together, but nameplate mods or scan healing alone permitted. This would allow things like tidyplates to continue, however it would take functionalitys from a lot of addons.
85 Draenei Shaman
2030
03/08/2011 7:42 AMPosted by Shrug
But FFS. People need to learn to identify the healers themselves. Not just rely on addons to remove all guess work out of pvp'ing.


No grid, clique, etc... for you you must learn to identify those that need heals yourself without relying on addons.

I already do that. I may not be an 85, but the default UI is fine for me, healing-wise. And I don't expect to have to replace it any time soon.
85 Draenei Shaman
2030
I say that the addon should be broken if it could. If it can't, then we'll have to deal with it. I think that I personally will get it, especially as a healer, to support any allies of mine that get focused on.
85 Blood Elf Death Knight
3795
Eh, in all honesty it's pretty easy to spot a healer no matter what.


I think that the people who actually target healers in the first place without the use of addons will use this addon to make that easier, and those who don't even bother targeting healers and just mash smash in the first place will never really hear about it or care about it.


Even if you broke the addon, a pvper who is intent on locking down a healer will find some way to do it, they can have your mana display on a tooltip and quickly hover over to see who has over a certain amount.
90 Blood Elf Warrior
8860
Paladin: 60k mana+ = healer.
Shaman: water shield or earth shield = healer
Druid: in human form with mana = healer (unless its boomkin that thinks he's being sneaky)
Priest: no mental quickness buff = healer

so if i make an add-on to help me identify those elementals I'll get buff tracking add-ons broke too, right?
90 Blood Elf Paladin
9980
03/08/2011 5:58 PMPosted by Draghinazza
To break they will need to forbid to scan healing, or forbid to modify nameplates. They can do a exclusion rule for both, so that addons that are centered in modifying the nameplates don't break, or the addons that scan the nameplate don't break. Forbid to use scan heal plus nameplate modification together, but nameplate mods or scan healing alone permitted. This would allow things like tidyplates to continue, however it would take functionalitys from a lot of addons.


Can they really? I find it hard to believe they could prevent addons from passing the information along. Even if they could, TidyPlates at least would lose functionality.
Edited by Pertinacious on 3/8/2011 6:48 PM PST
84 Orc Hunter
2080
I have a resto druid alt and i do WSG alot and everytime i cast rejuvination i get targeted by everyone around the FC and stuff, the best I can hope for is to get off one swiftmend before i die. RLY BLIZZ, GET RID OF IT
85 Night Elf Rogue
7155
Paladin: 60k mana+ = healer.
Shaman: water shield or earth shield = healer
Druid: in human form with mana = healer (unless its boomkin that thinks he's being sneaky)
Priest: no mental quickness buff = healer

so if i make an add-on to help me identify those elementals I'll get buff tracking add-ons broke too, right?


Difference there is, you'd have to select a target and then use your brain to see if they're a healer or not, therefore it's perfectly fine :)
85 Night Elf Mage
0
03/08/2011 6:51 PMPosted by Nilathak
I have a resto druid alt and i do WSG alot and everytime i cast rejuvination i get targeted by everyone around the FC and stuff, the best I can hope for is to get off one swiftmend before i die. RLY BLIZZ, GET RID OF IT


Sounds like you get rofl'd because you stand too close to the FC and make it obvious you are healing
90 Blood Elf Paladin
9980
03/08/2011 6:51 PMPosted by Nilathak
I have a resto druid alt and i do WSG alot and everytime i cast rejuvination i get targeted by everyone around the FC and stuff, the best I can hope for is to get off one swiftmend before i die. RLY BLIZZ, GET RID OF IT


The addon has only been downloaded 46,000 times. For a game this large that's not significant. I'm thinking you got trained and died, and now you're latching on to a rationalization for why you failed.
85 Draenei Priest
5545
Can they really? I find it hard to believe they could prevent addons from passing the information along. Even if they could, TidyPlates at least would lose functionality.


I'm not entirely sure, if WoW use assembly to these functions they certainly can. C++ is similar to LUA so I don't really know if they could given the nature of the language(if it was C++), but theorically is possible. This would be made specifically for HTTD. It would be same behaviour they had towards AVR, they would apply a simple and weak rule that would only apply to this specific addon, giving minor side effects to some(yeah, it probally would mess with a lot functionalitys), if the community insisted in bringing the addon back, then a more burtal rule would be applied, and that would definitely kill a lot of addons.

But I'm not really sure, it's only possible in theory.
Edited by Draghinazza on 3/8/2011 7:47 PM PST
90 Tauren Shaman
7365
Paladin: 60k mana+ = healer.
Shaman: water shield or earth shield = healer
Druid: in human form with mana = healer (unless its boomkin that thinks he's being sneaky)
Priest: no mental quickness buff = healer

so if i make an add-on to help me identify those elementals I'll get buff tracking add-ons broke too, right?


Difference there is, you'd have to select a target and then use your brain to see if they're a healer or not, therefore it's perfectly fine :)


IIRC, there are addons that can provide info about enemies, like spec or level, just by mouse-over or reading combat parses. In fact, isn't there an addon that auto checks the armory profile for you? Automated info isn't anything new, it's been around since the vanilla days with stuff like spell alert and paranoia (enemy player detector).

Anyway, this addon is fine, all it does is display information to the player. No matter what it tells the player, it is still ultimately his/her decision whether to attack that person or not. There is no automation, there is no gamespace auditing, thus it is legal.
03/08/2011 6:43 PMPosted by Pertinacious
To break they will need to forbid to scan healing, or forbid to modify nameplates. They can do a exclusion rule for both, so that addons that are centered in modifying the nameplates don't break, or the addons that scan the nameplate don't break. Forbid to use scan heal plus nameplate modification together, but nameplate mods or scan healing alone permitted. This would allow things like tidyplates to continue, however it would take functionalitys from a lot of addons.


Can they really? I find it hard to believe they could prevent addons from passing the information along. Even if they could, TidyPlates at least would lose functionality.
Easy, instead of breaking it just ban it out right and have the game do some internal checksum thing to detect if the MOD is applied (After it is applied the nameplate files stored in memory will be different due to the cross added to them and thus the checksum would change)

Ban people for using it or simply use this approach to simply disable it while also giving temp./permanant bans to users found using it.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
9980
Easy, instead of breaking it just ban it out right and have the game do some internal checksum thing to detect if the MOD is applied (After it is applied the nameplate files stored in memory will be different due to the cross added to them and thus the checksum would change)

Ban people for using it or simply use this approach to simply disable it while also giving temp./permanant bans to users found using it.


That idea is simply horrendous. Your solution is to perpetrate an arms race between unscrupulous mod developers and Blizzard, costing the company money and man-hours. All while other mod developers work to toe the line between what is and is not allowed, and the best part is that players with no understanding of the situation will get hurt the most.

Simply horrendous.
Edited by Pertinacious on 3/8/2011 10:00 PM PST
85 Blood Elf Rogue
8675
03/08/2011 5:10 PMPosted by Mahlus
What was the justification for breaking AVR again?


They claim, as someone said "it defaces the game world" and they compare it to model editing.

It draws lines on the UIParent layer ... not the GameWorld layer

They killed AVR because of AVR Encounters. If AVR E had never been made, we would most likely still have AVR today. AVR was an awesome addon even without AVR E. It was a bloodly brilliant addon with AVR E. The concept, not what it was actually being used for.
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