Break the HHTD mod already.

90 Human Paladin
6275

If you have ever used Capping... it makes a target box next to the flag with the flag carriers names. Its clickable. you can target them out of the crowd so easy... You don't even have to click in the field.

Hint hint.


This functionality is fundamentaly different as The Flag Carrier already has A Giant glowing indicator that they have the flag. All it does is make it easier to target a FC.

HHTD Identifies healers, some who might have gone without detection were it not for this addon.
85 Draenei Priest
5545
You are of course assuming they can't just break the display system on nameplates where you are able to show it as an icon (and I'm not saying I'm looking particularly forward to that but I doubt it's as impossible as you make it).
This wouldn't be nearly as powerful an addon if it simply displayed a list in chat every time it detected a healer. Or somewhere on the screen. What makes it potent is that it's above your head. It moves with you. It helps pick you up out of a crowd as a visual and audio cue. Big arrow pointing ->here's the one to kill. It's mimicking the function of a raid marker very well and raid marking an opposing faction player is not allowed on purpose by blizz. We are not given access to 3d world precisely for crap like this. It's far too easy to abuse.
A lot of nameplate mods are toeing the line these days I think, but this is the biggest one, as it singles out a particular player role.


If they want to really break what this add-on does without killing others they would need to redesign nameplate modding, because just forbid the icon display would not be enough to break it, there are other forms to mark a nameplate without using an Icon.

*sigh* again...

It's not raid marking.

God, this is why I hate official forums, almost no one knows what the hell a fair discussion should be. No one adresses arguments correctly, they just ignore and repeat the same thing that has been refuted, it's more of an debate than is a discussion...

Raid marking has a different behaviour and purpouse than this add-on. What this add-ons does is simple mark a healer, in the same visible range of a nameplate, just for the one using the addon, with the same marking for every healer it marks. A raid marking it's a marking done by the leader, that shows itself in a range bigger than the visible nameplate range, having unique markers for eveyone it marks.

Let's just do a item check to see if they are the same again.

1) Marks anyone who healed a certain amount automatically----------------Marks anyone by Raid Leader decision. X

2) Visible only in the nameplate range ------Visible at any range. X

3) Mark visible only by the player---------------Mark visible by anyone in the group/raid. X

4) Same marking for any healer----------------8 Unique marks for anyone. X

5) It's a marking------------------------------------. . . yeah . . . V

This draws impossibilities to HTTD.

You cannot know where the healer is if you aren't at his nameplate visible range.

Even if everyone in the raid has the addon(unreal situation for a pug even if the addon becomes popular should I add) you cannot use it to efficiently coordinate a raid group, since all the marks are the same, there is no distinction between marked healers by the icon, you need further differences between healers to adress them.

Given the fact that it only marks healers based on battlelog, that has a range itself, it does not mark the same player as a healer to everyone. This generates very common situations where players have different targets marked as healers. This turns coordination of raid group by HTTD more difficult. Again, assuming that everyone in the pug has the same addon, which is a very uncommon situation.

Greater possibility of marking error, since it's algorithm can be easily tricked. This renders the task to kill a healer slower by adding a confusing factor to it.

They have 1 feature, out of 5, in common. HTTD it's not mimicking, imitating, copying, duplicating or following the same patterns as a raid marking. The only thing they have in common is that they're marking something, which isn't rational argument to break it.

It's not raid marking.

If it's not raid marking, using the raid marking as example of equality to justify its breaking is no validy argument since it isn't true.

Now can the community in favor of breaking it because is the same thing as raid marking please adress my argument with a validy objection that refutes it?
Edited by Draghinazza on 3/10/2011 8:05 PM PST
85 Night Elf Rogue
7155
While the difference in functionality and features is there, we can't come to any conclusions unless we found out Blizzards exact reasoning behind disabling raid marking on enemy players.
85 Draenei Priest
5545
While the difference in functionality and features is there, we can't come to any conclusions unless we found out Blizzards exact reasoning behind disabling raid marking on enemy players.


Which makes the point even more useless.
85 Tauren Shaman
2415
Competent players do not need this...at all.
If you are competent then it shouldn't be hard to pick out healers in a crowd of people. You see that guy with loads of mana and spamming heals? You see him? He's a priest. Yeah, he's a healer.

Not that hard to spot healers. But to need an add-on for it, that is just criminal.
Edited by Hakkoda on 3/10/2011 7:42 PM PST
85 Night Elf Rogue
7155
03/10/2011 7:35 PMPosted by Draghinazza
Which makes the point even more useless.


True.

The best course of action is for people to post why -they- don't like or like the mod, this way Blizzard has something to go on when making their decision.
85 Goblin Shaman
4880
As a pvp healer myself, I support the breaking of any mod like this if possible.

If the player isn't smart enough to be making the switch to a healer without a addon like this essentially throwing a gigantic mark on them, then they deserve what they are getting typically. The same people who would use these addons are the same ones who don't know what CC/Interrupts are and claim healers are overpowered in pvp. Let's not empower them.
85 Goblin Priest
1865
This has to be against the add-on tos.

Good thing I don't pvp or I might actually care.
85 Draenei Priest
5545
If the player isn't smart enough to be making the switch to a healer without a addon like this essentially throwing a gigantic mark on them, then they deserve what they are getting typically. The same people who would use these addons are the same ones who don't know what CC/Interrupts are and claim healers are overpowered in pvp. Let's not empower them.


I don't think this is an empowered, for me seems like a teaching. While killing the healer is powerful strategy, the add-on does not ensure the player will kill it. Bad players will most likely get killed in the process of trying to kill the healer for not paying attention to other things.

True.

The best course of action is for people to post why -they- don't like or like the mod, this way Blizzard has something to go on when making their decision.


This is what the official forum are intended for what I remember what the blues told us. But people here (and most all of topics) thinks this is somekind of debate.

Just to clarify the differences between a debate and a discussion for people unaware of it. A discussion, in the sense of dialectics, is where two oposing forces talk about a certain topic, where the two forces needs to bring up arguments that prove their conclusion and bring counterarguments to break the other force conclusion, the basics of thesis, anti-thesis and synthesis. This leads to the truth, to what is real.

In a debate, there are two oposing forces talking about a subject, but there is no counterargument at all, there is no anti-thesis, therefore no synthesis. In this form, there is a judge, a third force that will ultimately claim which one is "right". However this does not ensures the truth, judges can commit flaws, errors, and can be impressed. By the use of rethoric you can do that.

People here think the blues, Blizzard, are the judge, and that if they cry hard enough, loud enough, impressive enough, Blizzard will follow the path they claim to be right. They do not have any commitement in to find out what is real, they are already sure of that. That's why most of topics seems to try for a blue response.

While a blue post here clarifying why they took raid marking of enemy players out would be great, this wouldn't guarantee the answer to why this addon could be overpowered.

It has been 3 or 4 years since I started playing this game, I never tried to enter these forums because I know things would be like this. I've tried the past weeks because of my wife, and because I have great sympathy for this addon. But as far it have been, it is an awful experience, right as I predicted.

So please, for everyone reading this, let's try to dicuss between ourselves, like if Blizzard didn't exist, this will guarantee a good discussion.
Edited by Draghinazza on 3/10/2011 9:01 PM PST
85 Gnome Warlock
0
When Blizzard makes the PVP aspect of the game about CC, skill, and strategy, instead of "ill the healer, they are the crutch of every team/bg/etc" then I will agree this needs to be broken.

The fact that whether you're going to win a bg or arena match weighs so heavily on your healers is a sign as to why addons like this exist.
85 Gnome Warlock
0
Also, there have been addons to detect specs for years, and this is no different than addons placing marks on adds heads. If adding a mark to a healer is game breaking, then so is having addons automatically place marks on PVE mobs.

FYI, I don't use addons that do either, but as unbiased as I can be, this isn't game breaking.
Also, there have been addons to detect specs for years, and this is no different than addons placing marks on adds heads. If adding a mark to a healer is game breaking, then so is having addons automatically place marks on PVE mobs.

FYI, I don't use addons that do either, but as unbiased as I can be, this isn't game breaking.
The difference is you can mark mobs with the default UI. The ability to mark players was disabled.
85 Draenei Priest
5545
It mimics a raid marker for EVERYONE using the mod. The fact it tags from the nameplate doesn't mean it's acceptable. It's completely bypassing the 'no raid marker' lock out Blizzard put in for the BGs. They don't want ANYONE except Hunters to be able to place a mark on a player.

Plus people who use it says the mod can be adapted for certain levels of healng and there is an audible noise when you mouse over a tagged healer even when that person is outside of the range the nameplate shows up. And a lot of people here in this thread and the other one say it has helped them specifically pick out healers so they can kill them.


What the hell?! You just quoted me but did not read what I wrote? It doesn't mark for everyone using the mod the same way a raid marking does. If a leader mark someone with raid marking, this marks show instantly to everyone in the group no matter what distance the member is. That is mark sharing. This doens't happen in HTTD. If you, standing in Flag Room let's say, get a healer marked by HTTD while in the same moment another member of your team is using the same add-on, but standing in the other base, it will not get marked for him. The marks aren't shared. It appears to the person using the add-on and only him, it does not appears to other people using the add-on just because it marked in yours. Hell, if the add-ons are tuned differently from each other, even if the members are side by side one might mark as healer and the other not. It was obvious in my speculations that I was imagining an environment where the whole team had the addon (I even said that). But given the nature of addon, it does not work efficiently as raid marker because of these things. It can't be used to provide "unfair coordination" (whatever the hell this means) to a raid group as a raid marker does, nor it behaves the same way (which is the point of a raid marking, improve coordination).

Just because it's a marker doesn't mean it imitates raid marker. Every marker is the same thing now? All of them have the same quality? Operate the same way? Have the same objectives? Common, you really read my post?

And the tuning of a certain amount of healing is a double edged sword. As it filters the number of errors that can occur (not terminating them), it can increase the amount of time it takes to mark someone as a healer. That's why is tuning. And how the ring sound stands in the same position as raid marking? Because it can happen over the range of the nameplate? To begin with, it doesn't have any pratical use of its own other than being able to hover incoming enemies and know it's a healer by sound, which isn't nothing overpowered since if you know it's a healer you probably remember its name, and when hovering, its name appears in the standard WoW tooltip (which is the way the addon knows when to play the sound), actually, most of the time after you know someone is a healer you will be able to identify just by his model, the human mind does well with patterns identification. And for what I remember raid markers were draw even over walls, that's why it was so overpowered for PvP, but as for the sound, you can't mouseover targets behind a wall beyond nameplate range, it isn't the samething, it isn't as unfair as raid marking, not even near.

And while a lot of people said this helped them to pick healers (which was the purpose of the add-on), this didn't meant they actually killed them 100% of the times, or that 100% of the times it changed the course of battle. Picking a healer is not the end of the world for the healer or the team engaged in battle.
Edited by Draghinazza on 3/11/2011 2:51 AM PST
90 Worgen Death Knight
15020

If you have ever used Capping... it makes a target box next to the flag with the flag carriers names. Its clickable. you can target them out of the crowd so easy... You don't even have to click in the field.

Hint hint.


This functionality is fundamentaly different as The Flag Carrier already has A Giant glowing indicator that they have the flag. All it does is make it easier to target a FC.

HHTD Identifies healers, some who might have gone without detection were it not for this addon.



Um, yeah thats exactly what i was saying. Let me get it more clear.

Hey addon maker guy. I know you are reading this forum because i found out about when updating my copy of the addon from Curse.

Here is an idea for you to add more functionality. On top of marking them, give us a layout to select the healers like capping does for targeting flag carriers. That way its even more dummy proof.

That more clear?

And to all you saying implying that it needs to be broke because you don't need an addon to find the guy with his hands glowing green and waving in the air.... Why do you care? You are obviously so good at watching your surroundings that this cant have any affect on your game play. Are you scared of the competition that might arise from people using mods so they can be as good as you?

I play a healer. Its name Is Ruid. Its on the same realm as this dude. I think the addon is evil, yes. I do not think it needs to be broke. Spotting healers is easy enough as it is so why does it matter?

When it comes to arenas it matters even less. There is a standard raid frame that lets you peak at the other team and see who is who already.
85 Night Elf Druid
6030
the thing is it allso can pick out a healer that a player has not seen healing. in a battle that should be left to the player not a mod that happen to catch a healer healing on the other side of a wall.

allso does the ding go off why stelthed if you get to close? i was wondering.

but all in all i think it gives an advantage, in larger PVP encounters if 10 people all turn to a healer that they may not have notice under normal circumstance. that healer will die fast.

85 Draenei Priest
5545
the thing is it allso can pick out a healer that a player has not seen healing. in a battle that should be left to the player not a mod that happen to catch a healer healing on the other side of a wall.

allso does the ding go off why stelthed if you get to close? i was wondering.

but all in all i think it gives an advantage, in larger PVP encounters if 10 people all turn to a healer that they may not have notice under normal circumstance. that healer will die fast.


Nah, it only plays the ring sound when you mouseover a visible target marked as healer, if you can't mouse over it, the sound won't play. Even if the healer is stealthed and is discovered, it will only ring if while discovered the player with the addon mouse over him.

The point of being able to mark healers in the combatlog range but out of visible range is very good, I didn't have thought of that. I don't think this renders the addon as overpowered as people claim, its doing something that normal human could not even dare to do (track the battlelog mentally) but since the community does not have a problem with gladius, that keeps track and counting of every CC used by other classes(a thing that a normal human can't do) and the community don't appear to have a big issue with it. Also this doesn't provide any real advantage other than the time you save searching for the healer. But very good point indeed, we need to focus more into this.

Well, ten people against one healer (in not real, but ideal conditions) will most likely gank him in less than 5 seconds. But that's assuming is 10 vs 1, which wouldn't survive even if it was a tank, that each one of the team members have his HTTD mark the same target as a healer, and this healer is the only healer in the battle. Talking about a real condition where there are 10vs1, this can only happens in 40s BG with high rate of frequency, and in this kind of encounter, there will be more than one healer, making the coordination to attack the same healer a lot harder to achieve, and there will be a lot of DPSes by the healer side(and other healers) to slow this process down, giving a chance for the healer to survive. So for normal 40 BGs PUGs, this doesn't pose much of doomsday for healers.
Edited by Draghinazza on 3/11/2011 2:54 AM PST
14 Human Priest
90
Maybe if healers weren't more powerful than dpsers in PVP situations, mods like this wouldn't exist. If you nerf the mod, you have to nerf healers as well. Bias is bias either way.
This topic has reached its post limit. You may no longer post or reply to posts for this topic.

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]