Break the HHTD mod already.

85 Draenei Hunter
8370
An addon is based on convenience. This addon places a "+" sign next to the player name if you have enemy name plate turned on. If you don't you will hear a ringing noise and then a louder ring when you actually select the healer. This is for the individual player only. A player having this doesn't empower the entire group with the luxury to see the mark.

You can not break an addon just because you don't like being focused. The addon helps people that want to make healers their priority target able to do so with ease which to me is the purpose of any addon.

Take DBM for instance. Should we have an addon to flash a blue message on our screen with a sound prompt when we are already glowing green with a Plague or tell us that we are standing on a green glowing death and decay?

Just because there are ways to already identify a healer without the addon doesn't make this addon bad because it makes it a lot easier to ID healers.

It is human nature to complain. It's the same way in any class forums over any change. In the end you learn to adapt and work around it. You should probably try and do the same.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
9980
03/11/2011 7:27 AMPosted by Kynrind
I did read what you said. It acts almost exactly like a raid marker. Everyone that has the mod that is in range of said healer WILL see the + pop up on the nameplate. You are ignoring that. The mod identifies healers the enemy hasn't even noticed by automatically putting a mark on them. For druids, they used to be able to change to kitty/bear form and hide their healer status. No longer with this thing. They stay marked.


Almost exactly? Pff, nope, you still don't get it.

It identifies healers, but unless there's only one healer in the area that's not doing much. If it's not a premade, seeing three plus signs appear within 40 yards of you isn't going to help the group focus fire at all. If it is a premade the raid leader will be calling it out anyway, and "kill the +" is not helpful.

Yes, this addon helps people to pick out which players are healers and which aren't, it makes the lives of those who use it a bit easier. I don't have a problem with that. I use Grid to heal, it makes things much easier for me, that's what addons do and HHTD is not in a special category of its own.

03/11/2011 7:27 AMPosted by Kynrind
If you cannot see how much of an advantage this gives people with the mod, you are being intentionally dense. Alot of healers that have posted here have noticed a drastic increrase of themselves being targetted and killed by groups (4-7) that are singling them out in a large gmelee battle or bypassing the melee entirely to target and kill the healer. It allows the intentionala targeting and MARKING of the healers. Something Blizzard does not want to do.


A lot of healers posting here are 100% full of it. Healers get focused in BGs all the time and have for years, I get singled out a lot, 2, 4, 7 players, sure. The fact is that this addon has been downloaded less than 50,000 times at the time of this posting, with only 684 avg downloads per day in the last 30 days.

That's tiny, insignificant. Compare it to the download rates of healer addons like HealBot or Grid. It is statistically improbable that players are finding themselves facing entire teams of people with this addon. These healers are simply rationalizing their poor play.

Finally, Blizzard cannot break this addon without breaking numerous other addons, and even if I agreed that this addon goes too far, it's not worth the loss of other addons that would result.
85 Human Warrior
9330
This may explain a more common occurrence recently. On my elemental shaman, I'll be doin' my thing, hucking lightning and throwing blobs of lava around and having a blast when I decide to toss a healing surge on myself cuz some DK got froggy and I had to knock him away/ Grounding his DG and FRAWST SHOCKING him for lulz. Suddenly, I get almost every enemy player in nameplate range of me turning and burning.

Its funny at times that it takes four or five of em to kill me when they're alts in greens in Tol Barad against my 3.3k resil, but it gives me a taste of what actual healers are facing now : (

I make it a point to target enemy healers but that is my choice, no addon told me to. As others have said before it should be about communication and situational awareness that lets you identify the real threat, not some addon getting around the "no raid marking enemy players" rule.

Its kind of like a kid's mom saying that he cannot have a cupcake for breakast so he has a twinkie instead.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
3395

Somehow a double post..sry
Edited by Aviel on 3/11/2011 11:07 PM PST
85 Blood Elf Paladin
3395
03/07/2011 12:21 PMPosted by Kyris
If that doesn't sound like much, then you don't play a healer who has been repeatedly obliterated because of this addon.

How do you know its becaus eof the addon?
i dont have it and when i(rarely) do BGs i manage to lock in on healers just fine


I have a real hard time believing that all the sudden the basic PVP playerbase just got really good at situational awareness.

I've had people practically zerg me as soon as I was within about 30 yards, when in the past I was pretty good at using terrain to stay LoS of my heal targets, but not in visual range (which is MY pvp strat...). I was wondering wth was going on. This might explain it.

Sure, as a holy spec paladin, I'm pretty annoying and hard to kill. On the other hand I have 0 tools to kill YOU.

I've read people saying that 'well this addon will make protecting the healer even more important', but I'm telling you: it's rare that this happens unless you queue in with people you know.

So GL if you are having a hard time finding BG healers!
90 Blood Elf Death Knight
15335
http://www.wowwiki.com/Victor_Nefarius

Note Nefarian's dialogue....this has been Blizzard's official stance since classic :)
85 Dwarf Shaman
4380
Break the damn mod.
85 Night Elf Druid
10970
Yeah, this addon just does what competent pvpers already do, I have castbar addons on my nameplates so I can see spells being cast, and I usually narrow it down to healing spells so that whenever I see one go off I can switch over and stop it. Trust me, its not just the addon.
85 Draenei Priest
5545
I did read what you said. It acts almost exactly like a raid marker. Everyone that has the mod that is in range of said healer WILL see the + pop up on the nameplate. You are ignoring that. The mod identifies healers the enemy hasn't even noticed by automatically putting a mark on them. For druids, they used to be able to change to kitty/bear form and hide their healer status. No longer with this thing. They stay marked.


I would being dense if I said it's a raid marker over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over without actually provide a insight of it. Out of 5 features HTTD have, only 1 is the same as raid marking, that is they are markers. You cannot say they are the same thing, it's innacurate to say so. Would you say a bat is a bird because it flies? No, that's wrong. I have not a problem with people saying it's overpowered because it is a marker and explain why a marker in PvP is overpowered. But to say is the same thing as a raid marker and because of that it should be banned is not an argument. For two main resons:

1) It's not the same thing as a raid marker. Out of 5 features, one is similar. Thats 20%. This cannot be a definition of similarity not even by the most insane of people. Say it is the samething as raid marker is just wrong.

2) This argument is based on the logic that as Blizzard took raid marker out of PvP, and therefore for the sake of not being hypocritical, they should break HTTD. This argument fails because the reason to why blizzard disabled raid marking isn't clear. You could say it was because they didn't want marking, you could say it was abuse, you could say because it marked peple over nameplate range. You cannot come up with a objective reason to it until Blizzard come up with something, until there, this notion is totally subjective. And it's not even a strong argument anyways because blizzard can change their plans for PvP anytime and add raid markers again, the state of PvP back then is way different than now. Till they talk something about it, this argument don't hold any strength of its own at all.

And people being single out is also subjective. I also thought at first the addon had aggravated the scene for healers, I won't account people testimony as a lie, that's why I thought this way. But given the numbers, that's not likely. 50000 downloads doesn't even hold 5% of WoW's population, and of this 50000 downloads, at least one third must be updating, making the number lower than this. And that this less than 5% WoW demographic would be entering the same BG together, move together through the same point of attack, and use the add-on to attack the healer as soon as he lays a heal (which means their addon is tunned to count any heal), and that this 5% is griefing the healer community is just a long long long long shot. If probabilistics say so, than is more likely that this is a selfconcious state. They're are being single out, and being frustrated by it, and in the search to find a reason to this, they use HTTD as the scapegoat. Healers have always being singled out, at bad rates as people tell, 3-5 enemy players following you. And notice this, people that are complaining are usually working through this line "ahhh, that is why I was being single out so fast then", this is even a stronger indicative for selfconscious behaviour, they didn't actually come in with real data, just a subjetive account. And if this add-on was really really griefing the healer community you would see much, I tell ya, much more massive complaining than this. This topic would have reached 26 page limit in one day. But this did not happen, the actual numbers don't change nothing substantially.

The only strong argument I have seen here in favor of breaking is that this is a marking, this is singling out one type of class and this is overpowered. No appeal to Blizzard or emotional frustration. I think if you wanna come up with something convincing you have to work through this line. And for people thinking like that I have a question for you.

If singling out healers (marking them) is a problem, then you wouldn't care if it marked every class role? I mean every class role, marked DPSers with a Red Sword, Healers with a White Cross, and Tank Spec'ed PvPers with a Brown Shield?
Edited by Draghinazza on 3/11/2011 3:09 PM PST
90 Blood Elf Paladin
9980
03/11/2011 1:18 PMPosted by Kynrind
I do get it. You do not. It puts a personal raid marker on the healer's nameplate for the user of the mod. Aside from the Hunter's Mark, Blizzard doesn't want ANY marks to be placed on players. This addon circumvents it by placing a mark on the nameplate. The fact only uses of the mod can see it is irrelevant. You are not suppsed to be able to do that at all in PvP. You're arguing in support for a violation of Blizzard rules.


What if it just turned the health bar a different color? Like bright green? Would you still call that a 'raid marker?' I use TinyPlates (which would likely be broken if HHTD is), it allows me to display applied debuffs (with timers) on top of nameplates, adds a threat bar onto the nameplates, changes their colors, etc. Its great and I don't want to lose it because a few healers can't deal with being targeted in BGs.

03/11/2011 1:18 PMPosted by Kynrind
More healers are aganst it than for it, and yes Blizz can break this mod without doing much damage to other mods. Besides, if you need mods/addons to play the game, you obviously need a crutch to play. Blizz designs this game to play without -any- add ons. You do not need them to play.


Of course more healers are against it than for it. Are more players against it than for it? Should that even matter? Recently Blizzard rolled back a data transfer change that reduced the ping of the vast majority of players. They did it because it boned a small number of players who were not using highspeed internet. This isn't a Democracy, we can debate it out here (and we should), but ultimately its Blizzard's call, and they have not traditionally had an issue with addons which only alter the appearance of UI elements, which is all HHTD does.

Again, Blizzard would do irreparable harm to many other mods no matter what path they used to break HHTD. I encourage you to look up the functionality of TidyPlates and other nameplate modification addons, much of that would be lost with any serious attempt to disable HHTD.
85 Night Elf Druid
10970
03/11/2011 1:18 PMPosted by Kynrind
More healers are aganst it than for it, and yes Blizz can break this mod without doing much damage to other mods. Besides, if you need mods/addons to play the game, you obviously need a crutch to play. Blizz designs this game to play without -any- add ons. You do not need them to play.


Haha, you have never played competitive Feral Cat PVE DPS with stock UI have you?


Healers have been getting targeted in BGs for 5-6 years. This addon is new, but focus firing and keeping track of where the enemy healers are have always been a part of the game, and games like it, this addon just makes it more apparent. Breaking the addon will do nothing to help you not get focused on in BGs, as I can focus the healers just using TidyPlates w/ Castbars enabled.
03/11/2011 8:26 AMPosted by Huntaro
You can not break an addon just because you don't like being focused. The addon helps people that want to make healers their priority target able to do so with ease which to me is the purpose of any addon.


I'm surprised to hear people supporting this add-on.

The more this add-on is used, the less people will be inclined to heal in BG's, and I don't think thats what blizzard or the player community wants.

Boycot this add-on, seriously.
85 Goblin Priest
2845
Clearly the only answer is to make a mod called

"People attacking my healers have to die"

Then we'll see who is cool with what.
85 Draenei Priest
5545
I'm surprised to hear people supporting this add-on.

The more this add-on is used, the less people will be inclined to heal in BG's, and I don't think thats what blizzard or the player community wants.

Boycot this add-on, seriously.


Why? Because people can't stand being targeted? That just it? Would that make PvP healing impossible? I don't think so.

PvP Healing is frustrating by its own, we've always being target fast, and we can't kill the people attacking us by ourselves alone, we aren't meant for that. Sometimes you keep healing people, making they stand up for 2, 3 full minutes with people chasing you and in return, they can't kill no one. This really gets on my nerves. And this add-on, even when popular won't make a large change on the PvP state by itself. Since the beginning of WoW, healers have always being the target in PvP, through various states of PvP blizzard created, things has always been like this. There is no way to change that, that's the logic of battle healing. The addon will make healers get targeted more times, what's the response to that? Protect healers even more.

Until people come up with validy argument to why this addon is so overpowered, I won't boycot it.

Clearly the only answer is to make a mod called

"People attacking my healers have to die"

Then we'll see who is cool with what.


^
Edited by Draghinazza on 3/11/2011 3:58 PM PST
85 Goblin Shaman
5080
03/11/2011 3:35 PMPosted by Darkreality
You can not break an addon just because you don't like being focused. The addon helps people that want to make healers their priority target able to do so with ease which to me is the purpose of any addon.


I'm surprised to hear people supporting this add-on.

The more this add-on is used, the less people will be inclined to heal in BG's, and I don't think thats what blizzard or the player community wants.

Boycot this add-on, seriously.


They support this addon because it helping them in BG, so they want to go to lazy route to pick out the healer
85 Draenei Priest
5545
They support this addon because it helping them in BG, so they want to go to lazy route to pick out the healer


Addons have the purpose of making the gameplay easier, faster. By that logic, every addon is a lazy choice. And could only be defined by lazyness if it took out a ridiculous big and boring process of the game, which doesn't. Searching for a healer isn't a big effort, therefore the effort replaced by the addon isn't great. How is that lazyness?
Edited by Draghinazza on 3/11/2011 4:24 PM PST
Just got it, I like it.

If bg's were made so it was worth it to kill CC or kiting classes off the bat I would, but blizzard made healers the only thing worth targeting when they're around. I'd say it's the bg's that need to be fixed, not the addon broken.
90 Dwarf Paladin
11615
I think this mod is bad. Blizzard protected the totems from being macro'd and targeted. This basically takes it to a new lvl. I think it is against the principle that blizzard backs. If you can't figure out there is a healer, then you don't need to be playing pvp.

It does explain how I can get targeted through a massive mob when I am playing holy, yet I can run all over and not get touched in prot.
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