Break the HHTD mod already.

90 Night Elf Hunter
10720
I have a question though.

how does it work? like, anyone who casts a heal gets marked?

so like, would a DK who uses death strike, or a shadow preist who uses any ability and gets ehaled for X-damage done? or does it like, watch for certain abilities and if you use, say...flash heal, it marks you.

It tries to find who have a healing spec in both your team and the enemy team (different marks for each) and has an option to show as healer who has done X amount of healing and up. (which you can disable or change the amount) it only shows the mark for yourself and only if your nameplates is active (enemies too far to show nameplates won't have a mark)
85 Blood Elf Warlock
3340


And what happens when the entire team has the Addon because of the advantage?


What happens when you're entire raid has DBM. It's not like that AddOn doesn't increase the level of skill of a player.


DBM doesn't circumvent Blizzard's rules.
85 Gnome Mage
4855
So it should be broken because it tells you something is happening (a healer healing)?
Does this mean dbm should be broken because it tells you "boss used this ability!" or "this mob is out, kill it!"?

DBM is used in PvE. HHTD is used in PvP. DBM uses raidicons, raid warnings, chat messages, and other functionality already in the game. HHTD uses its own icons to circumvent something that was specifically disabled by Blizzard.

Again, not equivalent.

Retry? (Y/N)
This brings to the forefront of my mind something under-discussed about BGs: protect your healers! I see so many dps tunnel-visioning into the enemy healer while their own healer dies. Do you just let a rogue beat on your healer in arena without peeling? Then why do you do it in BGs? The vast majority of the time a healer gets a good peel in a BG, it's accidental.
85 Goblin Priest
1490

It also puts a HUGE RED CROSS (or in my case, the Skull) over EVERY PALADIN EVER (Hello, Word of Glory), and the bear/cat who self healed after a fight. It also marks Hunters who cast Mend Pet.

You can disable this, it have a default of anyone that heals above 5k is marked as healer, but it can also only spot healer specs, or like, only 20k healing and up.

So what if I have a macro that says "kill this healer! {skull} %target" ? Will you ban that too because people will find the healer? Its just another way to find it, that people should already be doing themselves, its not the culprit for people going for the healer, its common sense, anyone with a brain should be trying to spot their healer first of all.


There's a difference between words and visual effects. We can take two addons that have similar utility, but different way to do it. AVR, the addon broke by Blizzard for drawing circles to show safe areas during encounters, and DBM, which broadcast message and warn players when they have special debuff.

AVR/AVR Encounters (for people who don't remember that addon)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FDwPeBdLQg

Blizzard accepted DBM, and rejected AVR.

Blizzard break addons when they have a negative impact on the game, or simply offer a way to make encounters too simple. The Emergency monitor of CTRaid (Pre-BC), AVR (Wrath), the first generation of Healbot and Decursive(Pre-BC), etc are some of the addons that Blizzard broke on purpose because they were acting like a bot or simply took away the decision from players in certain aspect of the game where it was all about decisions.

If we look at the addon that are now in the game: Deadly Boss Mod surprisingly survived and Blizzard added warnings in the game for boss abilities. Gearscore survived in the Cataclysm ilvl, while there is a built-in Questhelper. For arena, they added enemy's portrait on the side of the screen because of Gladius. If you imagine all the players of the game with that addon, what's the consequences? If they are too important and have a bad impact, then the specific addon must be destroyed. Of course, if it stay under the radar of the general population, it will survive for a long time, but now that it's on the General forum (and get a lot of reactions), it's obvious that Blizzard will take notice of it.

I knew there was addon with that functionality since Wrath of the Lich King, but I never looked for it. I doubt it's the only one. If it get too popular, breaking it would be preferable for the sake of healers in BGs. There is already distinctive spell effects that you can see to spot a healer (On the target, or simply a beam that show where the healer is like Penance), but you have to know them and pay attention, not let an addon do the job. Technically, it's not making a choice for you (Can't auto-target the healer), but it's borderline like AVR and DBM... but which side ?
Edited by Shastity on 3/7/2011 1:01 PM PST
100 Gnome Mage
13080
Its not gamebreaking in any way, you can spot a healer without it just as easy, put class colors on nameplates and there you go, just find which of those is the healer, also you can notice the healing effects, usually green stuff for druids or penance/a priest not in shadow form.

Also, this is a large misconception between healers, that they should be able to keep themselves alive alone against 2, 3, 5 enemies. They should work as a team, and it's the DPS job to look after their healers, to save them, to keep them from dying. In addition to HHTD, an add-on, My Healbot is dying should be implemented, so that DPS can save them with any kind of CC, slow or interrupt. That's teamwork.

Also, HHTD shows who is healing your side, so its easier to save your own healers too. While not wasting time looking for them. I started using HHTD just a while ago, and it just makes me find their healer faster, as I could do it myself already.


Nice argument. What you are leaving out is that, as anyone that plays a healer in BGs can tell you, we are getting focused on way more than we used to. In other words, this addon changes the dynamics of the fight in that players that used to be unable to recognize who they healers were and focus on them, now get an easy mark so that even the stupid ones can figure it out. "ZOMG attacked the marked ones" isn't skill.

I've noticed it a lot more in the past few weeks, and I had no clue that this addon was around. I was constantly going "how the hell is it that these guys are running at me from so far away, when I'm in a group, and attacking me?" Lately I haven't been queuing up as a healer because it just hasn't been worth it.

So, ultimately, it is game breaking-- unskilled players get a big mark so that they are able to figure out what to do. And healers are getting hit more by people with the addon. So what you end up with is that the team with more people using the addon have an advantage.
90 Night Elf Hunter
10720
03/07/2011 12:56 PMPosted by Cowpers
Hunters have healing spells? I was not aware of this.

inb4 chimera shot, I'm sure the addon author thought of stuff like that


Yes, it marks hunters when the cast mend pet.

Again, this can be disabled.

And if you say its gamebreaking because it puts a mark on enemies, so what if it didn't? What if it said on chat "this person is a healer" or as a raid warning along with their class? Would still be doing the same thing.

Total BS. It puts a HUGE RED CROSS over the player! How is that NOT easier to spot a healer then? As more people download this, healers in BG's will get nothing but absolutely steamrolled AT ALL TIMES and there will be no point to even trying to heal.


I haven't used the mod, but people in this thread seem to be saying it doesn't display it for the whole raid.

However we know mods *can* mark targets for the whole raid. So I can't see why the addon couldn't be extended to do healer marking that everyone could see.


It doesn't display it for the full raid, but what if everyone in the raid has the addon? Trust me, as people learn about this most people will get it. It will be as common in BG's as DBM for raiding and as common as Gladius for arena.

People keep saying "It's not hard to spot healers anyways". No, it's not as easy as you say. In a group of 10-20 players a good healer will run around kiting, keeping himself as under the radar as possible to avoid getting focused.

This addon puts a huge red bullseye (cross) over our heads. It should be up to the PLAYER to spot healers, not some addon!
Edited by Thunderclaps on 3/7/2011 1:03 PM PST
90 Undead Mage
6785
I don't heal in BGs anymore because no matter how much I heal them they wouldn't think twice about leaving me to die.
MVP
100 Night Elf Priest
11795
03/07/2011 12:55 PMPosted by Saharas
This brings to the forefront of my mind something under-discussed about BGs: protect your healers! I see so many dps tunnel-visioning into the enemy healer while their own healer dies. Do you just let a rogue beat on your healer in arena without peeling? Then why do you do it in BGs? The vast majority of the time a healer gets a good peel in a BG, it's accidental.


I consider the pvp-healer issue somewhat similar to this situation in a run:

Tank : Heal?
Healer : Can't.
Tank : y?
Healer : Loose mobs killed me. Didn't you notice?

In PvP I'd often hear someone going on about "wtf no one healing?" while I'm standing waiting to rez at the gy, killed again without any support.
85 Troll Hunter
5895
So it should be broken because it tells you something is happening (a healer healing)?
Does this mean dbm should be broken because it tells you "boss used this ability!" or "this mob is out, kill it!"?

DBM is used in PvE. HHTD is used in PvP. DBM uses raidicons, raid warnings, chat messages, and other functionality already in the game. HHTD uses its own icons to circumvent something that was specifically disabled by Blizzard.

Again, not equivalent.

Retry? (Y/N)
It doesn't circumvent anything, just adds an element to the nameplates. If a target is out of range for nameplates, you have no idea if they are a healer, whereas raid markers stay for as long as you can see them.

It is no different than changing the color of the nameplate, just more noticable.
Edited by Tuky on 3/7/2011 1:04 PM PST
82 Blood Elf Priest
2985


And what happens when the entire team has the Addon because of the advantage?


What happens when you're entire raid has DBM. It's not like that AddOn doesn't increase the level of skill of a player.


It throws out a warning when certain abilities happen, or when people have certain debuffs. A lot of the warnings it uses Blizzard has the standard UI also warning you about as well. It stays within Blizzard's rules of what Addons can do, (unlike AVR, which basically does the same thing as HHTD but for raids).

HHTD circumvents the mechanics that disallow a player from being able to mark an enemy player.

DMB circumvents no mechanics.
03/07/2011 1:03 PMPosted by Tuky
It is no different


03/07/2011 1:03 PMPosted by Tuky
just more noticable.

90 Night Elf Hunter
10720
If blizzard decided to get this addon out, smart people would still be spotting their healers, and nuking them.
As for myself, I'd miss knowing who is healing my side so I could protect them, but I would still be going for horde healers and spamming my "kill this healer" macro.
85 Orc Warrior
11165
It's kind of sad if people rely on an addon to figure out who the healers are.
If blizzard decided to get this addon out, smart people would still be spotting their healers, and nuking them.
As for myself, I'd miss knowing who is healing my side so I could protect them, but I would still be going for horde healers and spamming my "kill this healer" macro.


That's fine, let the player spot the healer, but leave it up to the player to do it.

And yea, if you want this addon for your own team, no problem there. You could also use the raid markers in the actual blizzard UI for this.
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