Healers Have To Die

85 Blood Elf Paladin
11325
03/10/2011 10:14 AMPosted by Syncline
I have not lied once in this entire thread.
And there you go again.


A lie is a deliberate statement of something known to be false.

He may not be lying, but that doesn't mean what he is saying is true, or accurate. Rationalization will make people believe anything. For example, look at the poor people who insist on tax cuts for billionaires. Who is paying for the tax cut? Poor people. And they actually believe that it will make their lives better. LOL.
85 Troll Shaman
2875
Wanna fix people with the addon? Everyone has has a heal should throw on just before getting into a fight... then almost everyone is marked...
90 Pandaren Priest
15085
So, who cares if it IS causing you to be targeted more?

What are you going to do? Whine about it obstinately instead of learning how to deal with it? Running to the devs to fix a problem that is inherently social (PVPers *finally* learning to target healers) is not a good solution.

If it was simple intelligence causing you to be targeted, then what? Beg for that to be disabled too?
85 Blood Elf Priest
2260

And there you go again.


Let's hear some sound/logical/cogent arguments
Go back through the topic instead of pretending nothing was said. You are doing everything you can to misdirect and it's gotten old.
03/10/2011 10:19 AMPosted by Orvain
(PVPers *finally* learning to target healers
hey aren't learning how to target healers. They are using an addon that automates it and simulates a raid mark.
Edited by Syncline on 3/10/2011 10:20 AM PST
85 Human Mage
2510
Yes, I am sure SOME dpsers will peel more often to help their own healers. But it's far more likely that healers will simply get focus fired faster and more frequently than they get peels.
That is already what some healers have been reporting.


Then its not a question of an addon. . youre teammates need to learn to do it. And sorry to say no one can peel 5 peeps off very fast if at all. So if you are dying in bgs more than maybe us dps are tired of trying to cc you since all healers have dispells for cc so we are no longer sheep, HoJ, repent, fear, etc cause they just get dispelled. matter of fact i make it a point to kill the healer first cause sheep isnt going to work.l
Edited by Sooria on 3/10/2011 10:20 AM PST
70 Undead Mage
1365
Is this any differant to players who use addons like Vent being told to type
Target playerXXX where playerXXX is the healer .
Kill him first.


1.) Vent is not an add-on, Vent is a stand alone program

2.) That doesn't auto-mark other players, that requires the player manually create a macro they have to put/already have on their action bar.
85 Human Priest
3025
"You have no idea if you are being targeted by people who use this addon or if people are just targeting you."

Not true. When I go from, every BG, having 1-2 random people attacking you per skirmish one week, to noticeably 6-7 folks consistently running through the entire crowd around me, skipping everyone else, straight to me every time...

I am gonna say chances are it is the addon and not suddenly that pug players have begun tactically communicating to each other and coordinating their efforts consciously because they suddenly got the brain power to do so...

A bit too coincidental for my tastes. This quacks like a duck.

85 Blood Elf Paladin
11325

That is already what some healers have been reporting.


And just how do you intend to prove that you are being killed because of this addon? If you can prove it, I will do a complete 180 and agree with you. But you can't. You are just speculating.


So you're assuming that people are downloading and installing an addon that marks enemy healers and are not using to target and attack healers?

Anyway, as I stated before the damage is not just if the addon is actually used, but people believing that it may have been used against them. It's destructive to the community.

And you're being disingenuous again. Admit it: there is no "proof" that he could ever offer that you would accept.
Edited by Lockslyn on 3/10/2011 10:22 AM PST
85 Blood Elf Priest
2260
To recap:

This places a red cross over the head of any healer who has recently healed (a certain amount, not that much). This can be seen to, what, 30-40 yards away? It also triggers a gong when a healer is moused over at a MUCH longer distance-- think across the map. The player who runs this does nothing; it is parsed out of logs, so the whole process of marking and identifying is done by the addon.

This can't be removed in any way. A healer can't hybrid spec to get around it, they can't LoS heal to get around it. They can't dispel it like a hunter's mark.

The upcoming features will be, in part, that it will be harder to fool AND that it will automate calling the target for their group, among others.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
11325
Is this any differant to players who use addons like Vent being told to type
Target playerXXX where playerXXX is the healer .
Kill him first.


1.) Vent is not an add-on, Vent is a stand alone program

2.) That doesn't auto-mark other players, that requires the player manually create a macro they have to put/already have on their action bar.


And of course the big one: only in a Rated BG is it realistic for even more than a few of the opposing players to be in the same Vent.

This addon offers a level of coordination that BGs were not really designed for. It shifts the balance between DPS and healing way too much without really relying much on player skill. To counter it Blizzard would have to do something ridiculous like offer CC/interrupt protection and triple the Resilience effectiveness for healers so that they would have a chance to live more than a few seconds in any combat situation.
85 Blood Elf Priest
2260
03/10/2011 10:25 AMPosted by Lockslyn
To counter it Blizzard would have to do something ridiculous like offer CC/interrupt protection and triple the Resilience effectiveness for healers so that they would have a chance to live more than a few seconds in any combat situation.
This seems like a viable retuning to me. :3
71 Blood Elf Death Knight
520
Add-Ons that make anything "easier" should be banned.
85 Worgen Druid
4965
It is bad since no marking can be put up in pvp. It is cheating and as such, should be banned if it isn't already.
85 Night Elf Druid
6030


So you're assuming that people are downloading and installing an addon that marks enemy healers and are not using to target and attack healers?

Anyway, as I stated before the damage is not just if the addon is actually used, but people believing that it may have been used against them. It's destructive to the community.

And you're being disingenuous again. Admit it: there is no "proof" that he could ever offer that you would accept.


There is no proof because it can't be prooven. Of course. I think that was my point.

I want him to admit that he is just speculating that he is being killed be people with this addon.

Suddenly everyone who kills you in a BG has no skill but instead is relying on an addon. Yes, I'm sure all the people who just pay attention or communicate in chat suddenly stopped playing.


does it point out a healer befor a player themselves has seen them healing? if it does have a threshold (baring in mind that it has been said to work on combat logs, which i as i know you only get why your opnent is close) it would be fairly easy to tell the difference between a feral and a resto.
i cant use cat from to trick an opponent in battle being that combat can be a bit crazy. so i think it would be easy to prove that the add-on does give an advantage. unless every player watches there logs, considering in even 5 on 5 an awful lot can be happening.
85 Blood Elf Priest
2470
03/10/2011 10:25 AMPosted by Lockslyn
To counter it Blizzard would have to do something ridiculous like offer CC/interrupt protection and triple the Resilience effectiveness for healers so that they would have a chance to live more than a few seconds in any combat situation.


The other team is allowed to kill me. I even welcome them to try and kill me, because sometimes I go OOM and it's faster regen to be reborn. Haha I mean when they can catch me and make me run out of mana.

Case and point I kited five people around Twin Peaks for about five minutes before they managed to chain CC me long enough to actually kill me only to see about seven Horde wreck their face. Killing healers is hard isn't it?
85 Blood Elf Paladin
11325
So, who cares if it IS causing you to be targeted more?

What are you going to do? Whine about it obstinately instead of learning how to deal with it? Running to the devs to fix a problem that is inherently social (PVPers *finally* learning to target healers) is not a good solution.

If it was simple intelligence causing you to be targeted, then what? Beg for that to be disabled too?


Healers will simply stop PvPing. It's a big part of the game, and without it they may grow bored and simply stop playing WoW altogether. Is that what people want? Fewer healers around?

It's bad enough that healers were nerfed to the point where they can't really function solo day-to-day without shifting to a dps spec. Pretty soon the only place left for healers will be in 5-mans and raids. And the healers left will be worse too. PvP healing is a fantastic place for healers to become more skilled at their role. They learn to heal on the move, how to stay alive when under attack, the importance of terrain, triage (REAL triage) and improved spatial awareness. If a healer asks me how to get better, one of the main things I tell them is to heal in PvP.
85 Goblin Priest
3525
03/10/2011 10:15 AMPosted by Reefermadnez
That is already what some healers have been reporting.


And just how do you intend to prove that you are being killed because of this addon? If you can prove it, I will do a complete 180 and agree with you. But you can't. You are just speculating.


The problem here is that you are asking us to prove something that is not possible to prove as we can not look onto the screen of the 10 man zerg that just jumped on us. The best we can do is say "in this bg, I did not die while in this one I was never alive longer than 3 minutes" and we can in no way see if in the latter bg the opposition had this add-on. As this gets more popular and our deaths are shown to have a positive correlation to number of computers with this add-on we may have more evidence that this is what happening, but asking us to prove objectively by deduction what can AT BEST be shown by induction is like asking me to prove that all swans are white.
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