Is Old Content going to be Redone every patch

85 Worgen Hunter
11395
I actually like the fact that they revamp old content, it brings back memories (for those who played it "back in the day"), and gives them a springboard for new ideas using the same lore. Naxx may have been a bit too similar to the original, but that didn't matter since most people never saw the inside of naxx to begin with apart from level 70 pug groups going in to faceroll it. They have promised all new fight mechanics and such for ZG/ZA, which makes sense since those instances were very accessible in their time.
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90 Night Elf Druid
15975
I don't see what the problem is. They're not just slapping on new levels and gear, but actually redoing the mobs, bosses, mechanics and stories. As long as the occasional "new" new content comes out too, this is just as effective.

Also keep in mind when you bemoan how the "environment" is the same, a huge portion of the people who currently play have never stepped foot in any of the 70ish BC dungeons or raids, or haven't in so long that they've forgotten most of the battles/mechanics. Before the Classic revamp, that went double for the level 60 dungeons and raids.

I love the revamps, and I'm looking forward to more. While completely new zones to explore is fun and all, I don't like seeing "virtual space" wasted, and I would love it if Outlands was revamped to either make the 58-68 journey more involved in the ending zones/dungeons, or just took those dungeons and added a level 85 reason for them to exist. The elemental plane being out of whack affects ALL worlds that have unsteady foundations, and going back to Outlands to help the new additions of the Horde and Alliance that still live there (Mag'har, Kurenai, Shattrath Draenei and Blood Elves) would be a great way of keeping every aspect of the universe relevant and inclusive.
Edited by Daystar on 3/10/2011 2:27 PM PST
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
8270
I just wish they wouldnt remove old content.

I dont see why the old Deadmines/SFK had to be removed. Why not add another entrance and make it where the original entrance takes you back to the original DM and the new one takes you to lets say a level 80 version that takes place years later.

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85 Undead Warlock
1670
There definitely is not a hard and fast rule about updating existing content. If we feel revamping existing content makes sense in the current state of the game and lore -- and we think it will be fun -- sure, it's a possibility. You definitely shouldn't expect this every patch though. In the grand scheme of World of Warcraft's history, we've reintroduced very little existing content per patch and expansion.


While I see your point Zarhym, the stuff that has been revamped in the game has primarily been in the form of Naxx in WotLK and a ton of the Cataclysm content. Sure there is new stuff here, but a lot of it is revamped or redesigned. I almost feel like I purchased the same game I bought 5 years ago, or I should say what it should have been 5 years ago. While I loved the old game, I don't want to go back and do the same stuff that I did for a good long while all over again with very little else that is new.
Naxx was re-introduced because hardly anyone got to see the content as it was released moments before BC. So only a small percentage of guilds actually got into Naxx and an even smaller amount completed it - then everyone went to Outlands. The community also asked for them to re-release Naxx so that more could experience the content. It's probably what will happen with some of the Wrath end of expansion raid content because such a small group of people got to experience it.

The remake of Deadmines, for example, was a fantastic addition to the game and offered new and updated mechanics and much more dynamic content. It is the same thing with SFK. The only thing that is the same is the map and most people hardly spent time in those instances as they are leveled out of rather fast. The SFK/Deadmines instances offer encounters not seen in any other part of the game, that in and of itself makes some of your comments contradictory and I laugh at anyone who says the instances are exactly the same thing. The encounters, abilities and scripts are so different that it really does beg the question, "are you people even comparing original vs. new content?"

The Troll instances, historically, have been a huge hit with the community and the fans of those Troll instances have all but flown to Blizzard headquarters and BEGGED ON THEIR KNEES for a new or re-released Troll instance. ZG, when released, was just about the best instance the developers had released in the history of the game and it was only trumped, in my eyes, by ZA which offered advanced difficulties for smaller guilds.

By saying things like ...
I almost feel like I purchased the same game I bought 5 years ago, or I should say what it should have been 5 years ago.

... is really not a reason why they shouldn't re-release specific content. The fact is, the game wasn't as advanced in terms of player/npc abilities or mechanics. The game, during that time, was very much in it's infancy. Naxx itself was the first in a major shift in dungeon design for Blizzard and it's the reason we have the dungeons we have today that aren't full of endless amounts of trash pulls which respawn upon wipe on a boss attempt and are less linear in progression.

It really doesn't even seem like you PLAYED Vanilla WoW by the tone of your post.
Edited by Thumprdumpr on 3/10/2011 2:38 PM PST
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85 Night Elf Mage
7110
03/10/2011 1:20 PMPosted by Zarhym
In the grand scheme of World of Warcraft's history, we've reintroduced very little existing content per patch and expansion.


Valid, but considering that all of the "rehashed content" has been done within a year and a half (out of almost six and a half), I can understand (and agree with) the concern.

Hell, some could even argue that Cataclysm itself is yet another example considering that a ton (if not the vast majority) of the revamped questing content are the very same quests, just moved around to accommodate.
Edited by Illythia on 3/10/2011 2:36 PM PST
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85 Dwarf Warrior
5605
I think the revamping old instances has its good and its bads. I personally loved ZG and ZA back in the day...ZA was in fact my favorite instance of all time.

The problem I see is with how they are changing them from raids to dungeons. I mean these places have a place in "wow history" as being really great raid instances. Now I've done both on the PTR and as such can honestly say that instead of being these great places as they once were, in changing them to 5 mans, they have just become new farmable content...The timed runs offer some sort of change to an instance yes, however I feel like the old instances which are being brought back are becoming as mediocre as the dungeons. The success of these places I think was largely in part to the fact that they were raids, and were not so easily cleared with anyone u happen to pick up off trade...

In short I think bringing them back as 10 man raid instances would make far more an impact to the wow community then bringing them back as these mediocre 5 man dungeons. And for the record when it comes to lore, no reason it couldn't be a raid ;)
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85 Blood Elf Hunter
3515
you seem to forget that this game requires massive amounts of hosting space ... so if blizzard keep adding new stuff every patch, without changing or altering the existing content, or removing it all-together .... then they need look into getting hold of more hardware, this either means renting or buying more servers and hireing more technicians to run & maintain them, not to mention the time it takes to network them into the existing servers without downtime ... seriously, if you want to add more to the existing network of computers that create your "server" then it is either done over a period of time, or they take the servers offline entirely for a while a few days ... either way someone will get mad because the service is either unstable or unavailable.

have you ever heard the expression "logistical nightmare"?
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85 Undead Warlock
1670
I think the revamping old instances has its good and its bads. I personally loved ZG and ZA back in the day...ZA was in fact my favorite instance of all time.

The problem I see is with how they are changing them from raids to dungeons. I mean these places have a place in "wow history" as being really great raid instances. Now I've done both on the PTR and as such can honestly say that instead of being these great places as they once were, in changing them to 5 mans, they have just become new farmable content...The timed runs offer some sort of change to an instance yes, however I feel like the old instances which are being brought back are becoming as mediocre as the dungeons. The success of these places I think was largely in part to the fact that they were raids, and were not so easily cleared with anyone u happen to pick up off trade...

In short I think bringing them back as 10 man raid instances would make far more an impact to the wow community then bringing them back as these mediocre 5 man dungeons. And for the record when it comes to lore, no reason it couldn't be a raid ;)

This is the same sentiment that I have. I LOVED ZA, I thought it was the best of what Blizzard can and has produced as far as dungeon look and feel. The boss fights were, at the time, new, challenging to even the hardest core of raiders and offered some good content for the guilds that didn't like all the logistical challenges of 25 man raiding.

All that being said, I was EXTREMELY disappointed that they made ZA into a 5 man dungeon. I thought it would have been a fantastic place for Blizzard to add to that mid-sized raid content that alot of people have come to love.
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85 Undead Warlock
1670
you seem to forget that this game requires massive amounts of hosting space ... so if blizzard keep adding new stuff every patch, without changing or altering the existing content, or removing it all-together .... then they need look into getting hold of more hardware, this either means renting or buying more servers and hireing more technicians to run & maintain them, not to mention the time it takes to network them into the existing servers without downtime ... seriously, if you want to add more to the existing network of computers that create your "server" then it is either done over a period of time, or they take the servers offline entirely for a while a few days ... either way someone will get mad because the service is either unstable or unavailable.

have you ever heard the expression "logistical nightmare"?
I'm positive this has no effect on their decision to release new or re-release updated dungeons.

Deadmines was always a popular lowbie instance, ZG was loved by the vast majority as was ZA. A re-release of all 3 of those dungeons has been asked over the course of each of their expansions.
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90 Orc Warrior
13355
If the next expansion uses the Burning Legion and Sargeas (sp?) as the primary antagonists, I totally want to see Kara redone.
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85 Blood Elf Hunter
3515

I'm positive this has no effect on their decision to release new or re-release updated dungeons.

Deadmines was always a popular lowbie instance, ZG was loved by the vast majority as was ZA. A re-release of all 3 of those dungeons has been asked over the course of each of their expansions.


well then you'd be wrong.
all new content = requirement for more space, you cant add a whole new neighbored to a city and expect it not to take up more space.
revamped content, would require less extra space to fit in as it is already placed within an existing game-zone textures and layout are already finished but may require some refinement.
just the same as renovating or rebuilding part of a city with taller buildings, it still requires raw materials and space, but the space is already there.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
14280
If anything I would like to see them add and redo the Dranei and Blood Elf starter zones and have them added into Azeroth as a whole.

Ghostlands has so much potential for awesome; and I think the Belfs had a lot invested in the Lich King storyline that wasn't told or was largely ignored during WotLK; I was extremely disappointed when I heard that the TBC starter zones would not be revamped along with the rest of their Azerothian counterparts. (I was also disappointed to see Wintergrasp and Silithus hardly touched in the revamp. So much awesome potential wasted, but I guess they ran out of time to give it the Barrens and Stonetalon remake.)

As for ZA and ZG; I don't really mind other than winning the mount in ZA I got my use out of both of those instances already; and as Blizzard has proven with both Deadmines and Shadowfang Keep their revisits of those instances were pretty damn good.

You can see that there seems to be quite a bit of effort going into the eventual Firelands patch; with a new daily quest hub; and a pretty cool looking instance. So I don't think they are skimping on new content.

I do agree with the OP that we will see AQ 40 and 20 revisted; I wouldn't doubt if they were turned into heroic 5 mans along with the Old God patch. It would make a lot of sense here.

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85 Tauren Shaman
2415
Hey I was just wondering if there was any discussion about this on the forums at all.

I want to know if Old Content is going to be redone every patch or expansion.

- Naxx 40 was made into a 25 man and moved to Northrend.

I only agree with this decision because so many people didn't do it. Only my guild and 2 other guilds got to do it at the time.

- Onyxia classic turned into a 10/25 for Wrath for the anniversary? I didn't understand the point of this honestly.

- ZA turning into a level 85 heroic dungeon. So the 10 man level 70 raid disappears.

- ZG turning into a level 85 heroic dungeon. I thought this place would be a cool leveling area or something with phased quests.

So what is next? My guess is the AQ's because there is that unfinished zone of AQ that you can fly over.

We already know about ZG/ZA. We took out Hakkar and took out Zul'Jin. The dungeons are the exact same, the amount of players is just reduced and maybe some new mechanics. It's pretty much the same thing.

I was wondering if this is a trend that is going to be happening now?

My personal opinion is I would rather see some good new content built on lore that is fresh.

Feel free to discuss.


You cited 3 examples of redone content.
Three, out of the game's long history. I don't understand why some players are making such a big deal about this.

The thing is they are not or have not been doing it every patch.

People need to relax in this game.

We ARE getting new content. We have been. What do you call Ulduar, and ToGC and ICC? And a whole new expansion. Three new raids, with new stories. And the upcoming Firelands patch.

New. They aren't redone.

The thing is people always seem to magnify what Blizzard does. They do a re-do and BAM people start complaining about how Blizzard is lazy for not making new content, as if Firelands is not new enough, as if all the upcoming patches isn't new.
Edited by Hakkoda on 3/10/2011 2:55 PM PST
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90 Draenei Paladin
16995
03/10/2011 1:20 PMPosted by Zarhym
There definitely is not a hard and fast rule about updating existing content. If we feel revamping existing content makes sense in the current state of the game and lore -- and we think it will be fun -- sure, it's a possibility. You definitely shouldn't expect this every patch though. In the grand scheme of World of Warcraft's history, we've reintroduced very little existing content per patch and expansion.


Contrary to forum rage I think most people enjoy seeing this content revisited, I know SFK and DM are my two favorite instances ever since Cata launched.

Updating these things makes the world feel lived in, alive and evolving.
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90 Gnome Mage
15225
I think we need to look at this appropriately. ZA and ZG being referred to as farmable content...if you are doing it at the appropriate item level (and not full Tier 11) then it should put up a good test. If you are going in with all Tier 11, then duh...it's going to be easy and a great source of enchanting mats to finally bring maelstrom crystals down to a reasonable price.

From a lore stand point and this whole anti reuse mentality...to believe that the world stops evolving over time with major events going on is just stupid. The STV quests started the story line of the re-surging troll nation with ZA & ZG proving the next step. If we read into past blue comments a bit, there is much more to come and a probably Troll raid. If a race is coming back into power, won't they try to reclaim the lands they lost before? Aren't we doing that now in Plaguelands? How about the battle between the Orcs and Night Elves for land/resources?

We can't think the world is a static environment. If anything is to be considered, the original old world being tired and untouched for 6 years was a great example of how things should not go. We would do quests in old world that had no reaction to the events on Outland or in Northrend. If this was a perfect system, each expansion would move all content forward in the timeline...but its not possible. People have raised complaints about Outland being out of sync and also Northrend. We'll probably see the Outland revamp when another Legion threat develops (which has been hinted at for awhile now). When it comes to Northrend for Level 85 players, we could raise several issues about the state of that continent. Why don't we see Bolvar on top of ICC and the scourge in retreat? Why, when visiting Wyrmrest, do we not see Alex recovering and the dragons discussing the return of Neltharion?

There are gaps everywhere in the timeline and Blizzard is actually catching part of the world up to current events. Like the person said earlier in the example about Germany...the world is dynamic and always changing. It would be nice if the entire world moved forward with you in your story. However, it would also be nice to have access to the original versions of raids if they are replaced through a CoT or secondary access area to "relive" that event in your character's story.
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85 Human Paladin
6515
03/10/2011 1:28 PMPosted by Armageddøn
There definitely is not a hard and fast rule about updating existing content. If we feel revamping existing content makes sense in the current state of the game and lore -- and we think it will be fun -- sure, it's a possibility. You definitely shouldn't expect this every patch though. In the grand scheme of World of Warcraft's history, we've reintroduced very little existing content per patch and expansion.


So may I question what exactly was the reasoning to not put something involving our cute little Raptor pet from the questline in STV into Zul'Gurub? I miss that guy!


Wait...WHAT?! They're not even going to include anything about our poor raptor pet in the revamped ZG?? That was, like, the only reason I was interested in the new dungeons to begin with! :(

Guess I don't have to bother bringing this toon out of the fridge to try out those dungeons after all....
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