Heroic Halls of Origination

85 Human Priest
7440
bump!



Form a group within your server to do what you want... this is sort of pointless QQ.

I get your frustration, but if there isn't at least 2/5 who want to do it I won't sacrifice 4 people's time for the good of one.

I understand your point though, and I will usually drag the group to a specific boss if but if someone wants to do them all just cause and everyone else doesn't, no deal.


you won't have to worry about taking group votes if all the bosses are mandatory to get to the last one.
85 Tauren Druid
6055
as a player of 2 rogues, amanae , construct of life is the only boss that drops a 346 throwing weapon and no you cant buy it with JP,VP or honor points. poor planning on blizzards part when its a skippable boss........very frustating when you cant get most PUG`s to even consider doing that one additional boss in HOO
85 Human Priest
7440
bumperz
85 Human Priest
7440
bump i want this noticed!



03/14/2011 6:12 PMPosted by Clawsoffury
as a player of 2 rogues, amanae , construct of life is the only boss that drops a 346 throwing weapon and no you cant buy it with JP,VP or honor points. poor planning on blizzards part when its a skippable boss........very frustating when you cant get most PUG`s to even consider doing that one additional boss in HOO


i truly do feel sorry for rogues cause of this issue, it is a well known issue maybe they will address it in ZA/ZG...
90 Human Paladin
9475
bump!



Form a group within your server to do what you want... this is sort of pointless QQ.

I get your frustration, but if there isn't at least 2/5 who want to do it I won't sacrifice 4 people's time for the good of one.

I understand your point though, and I will usually drag the group to a specific boss if but if someone wants to do them all just cause and everyone else doesn't, no deal.


you won't have to worry about taking group votes if all the bosses are mandatory to get to the last one.


Seems again this is all about what you want. Isn't that kind of... selfish?
85 Orc Death Knight
6340
I tank everyday, and tanked HoO a fair bit. Whether I vote to help someone with the optional bosses depends on the primarily performance of the 3 dps in the team (and probably a little on the healer) on the first boss and the trash pulls.

The reasons are:

1) It's a drag.
Most optional fights are DPS+Adds races. Other than Earthrager who is downright boring. In short, if the group is churning out close to 35k dps it's going to be fast and risk-free. Else, it just dreary.

2) There is a risk
Even with raid gear, you can wipe at Setesh. And that is beyond the control of the tank/healer. DPS can't dps fast enough on gates and on boss, or keep their trigger happy fingers off their aoe buttons. Tanks don't like not being in control. A wipe sets everyone back by 5-10 mins. And what was a quick VP run turns sour rapidly.

3) Happy ever after. Another risk.
If the person asking for optional boss wants the loot, there is a risk regardless of whether the loot drops, he leaves the group. I've encountered it. Soured the group's mood. I like to tank and end it happily for *everyone*.

In short, don't talk as if optional bosses are like killing a critter as you run past to the last boss. If I'm ever tanking for you, and I opt not to do optionals, most likely the group ain't performing and I'm not taking that risk.
85 Human Priest
7440
bump!






you won't have to worry about taking group votes if all the bosses are mandatory to get to the last one.


Seems again this is all about what you want. Isn't that kind of... selfish?


Seems again you forget to read....did you ever look at my VERY last post before the post you linked? page 5, near the bottom...






^^^^^^^ see, i've skipped the marrowgar clone boss so many times i completely forgot about it...maybe my idea wasn't too good, i like the idea of having chaos orb drop off the last boss and the last boss in fact being the marrowgar boss cause none of them are truly too difficult to be called a "final" boss (except possibly setesh....his portals are beastly, i believe they nerfed him in one of the last patches but i have yet to be able to see it...obviously).


You do realize that with any changes like that a lot of people would see they got it and just leave immediately, right? I know I hate that place, and if every boss were required for my daily heroic, I'd probably just leave instantly and go afk for the 30 minute deserter debuff.

Although I normally don't have a problem if someone needs gear from one of the bosses, it's not a huge strain of time downing the last 4 of them anyways, the marrowgar looking one is annoying to go to though what with that stupid hall and all.


People may argue with it now, but everyone puts themselves above the group, you don't do those fights cause you don't want too. You can leave...go afk for 30 minutes, i expect the change to give these reactions, unsettling enough as it is to let you all know...there are no downsides to this except the fact that you want to get out of a dungeon faster, if you don't have the time, don't join.

And fermented....your post has already been answered earlier in one of my previous posts: you don't like it, you leave but for people that actually want to be there, we will stay cause we need the gear.

P.S. also fermented...i bring up the issue of stupid tanks and stupid dps in my post on page 5 as well, if you want to look it over it's near the bottom of the page :).
Edited by Holyprest on 3/14/2011 8:21 PM PDT
85 Gnome Mage
1925
Did HoO Heroic tonight we completely steam roll that place now, lucked into a raid geared warrior dps, and of course my son tanked on his pally.

The dps instinctively turned straight for Rajh... I saw this thread earlier today and my son said "we are gonna kill the MALL" he meant them all, but somehow they got the point.

Ten minutes later we had all four down. I STILL haven't got the main hand... it is the last 333 I have to upgrade.. grrrr!!

Truly fun bosses, they go down so fast so only time I wanna skip is if I am in a pug and it is a total bad attitude PUG. I don't mind a nub pug, because they will learn and eventually get it... it is the darn bad attitudes and greifers that get on my nerves.
85 Human Priest
7440
Did HoO Heroic tonight we completely steam roll that place now, lucked into a raid geared warrior dps, and of course my son tanked on his pally.

The dps instinctively turned straight for Rajh... I saw this thread earlier today and my son said "we are gonna kill the MALL" he meant them all, but somehow they got the point.

Ten minutes later we had all four down. I STILL haven't got the main hand... it is the last 333 I have to upgrade.. grrrr!!

Truly fun bosses, they go down so fast so only time I wanna skip is if I am in a pug and it is a total bad attitude PUG. I don't mind a nub pug, because they will learn and eventually get it... it is the darn bad attitudes and greifers that get on my nerves.


I'm glad you thought of me when this happened! :D, and just for the record.....be glad your son was the tank lol nobody listens to a healer :(
85 Gnome Death Knight
4995
I skip every boss I can skip. Frankly, because I think it's a waste of time to do extra bosses. HoO without extra bosses I've done in 20 minutes. With the extra bosses, it's about an hour and a half.

The extra bosses people tend to wipe upon. Because they're often skipped, some DPS STILL don't know the mechanics, so it takes them a long time to go down. If you're asking to do the extra bosses, I know you're not geared. Why should it be my responsibility to gear you? I'm never going to see you after this run.

For some of us, running dailies is the only way we can amass VP. And it takes a LOT of runs to get geared... A month of running without fail for one chestpiece. Same for Leggings. I've done HoO before, and I'm gonna do it again many times. I'd just as soon get in and out of there as fast as possible. Raids call. Real life calls. If you want to spend extra time in there, form a group for that purpose.
85 Human Priest
7440
I skip every boss I can skip. Frankly, because I think it's a waste of time to do extra bosses. HoO without extra bosses I've done in 20 minutes. With the extra bosses, it's about an hour and a half.

The extra bosses people tend to wipe upon. Because they're often skipped, some DPS STILL don't know the mechanics, so it takes them a long time to go down. If you're asking to do the extra bosses, I know you're not geared. Why should it be my responsibility to gear you? I'm never going to see you after this run.

For some of us, running dailies is the only way we can amass VP. And it takes a LOT of runs to get geared... A month of running without fail for one chestpiece. Same for Leggings. I've done HoO before, and I'm gonna do it again many times. I'd just as soon get in and out of there as fast as possible. Raids call. Real life calls. If you want to spend extra time in there, form a group for that purpose.


it's a waste of time to do bosses that someone spent probably literally months to prepare? designers, ability crafters...an entire developing team is devoted to making these fights so you can get gear and feel like you've accomplished something.

Lemme bring one piece of information from your own post that defies your own logic

The extra bosses people tend to wipe upon. Because they're often skipped, some DPS STILL don't know the mechanics


You would know the mechanics if you didn't skip them, and this brings back all the earlier arguments i've gone through, people just want to rush through an instance, if you don't have the time, DON'T JOIN. If you have bad dps or heals or a bad tank, LEAVE. It is your choice to stay, but these bosses shouldn't be optional AND have people still have the liberty to leave if they wanted too, that in itself is a double no-no. My way lets people leave at the beginning before any harm is done if they don't want to do it, instead of leaving after a certain boss is down no matter to anyone in the group.
12 Gnome Mage
70
Get in, get out!
That's my motto.
Like a night at the bars.
85 Orc Death Knight
6340
And fermented....your post has already been answered earlier in one of my previous posts: you don't like it, you leave but for people that actually want to be there, we will stay cause we need the gear.


Don't think you got where I am coming from; and you've mistakened my 'opt' as a demand not to do it. Believe me, I think I have ran enough HoO to know when the group will fail at the optionals. If the entire group opts to do the run, I'll oblige, or leave, depending on how the chances look. What I'm trying to explain to you why possibly, some people are opting to skip optionals, is because of these risks.


03/14/2011 8:14 PMPosted by Holyprest
P.S. also fermented...i bring up the issue of stupid tanks and stupid dps in my post on page 5 as well, if you want to look it over it's near the bottom of the page :).

I don't see any mention of stupid dps. Just a blanket statement of your tanks failing. Thanks for reminding me to read your "page 5 post near the bottom". Tells me a lot about yourself.

03/14/2011 5:30 PMPosted by Holyprest
on a personal note: people die all the time in my instances cause tanks seem to think they rule the instance...but you didn't hear that from me it's just random occurances you know?
23 Orc Hunter
5875
The thing is that HoO is kinda long as it is by the time you get to the 2nd floor. Not oldschool lets clear all of BRD in vanilla long but still pretty long now that the game has evolved.

If they made it so that after you killed the 1st boss you could skip to the 2nd floor but still had to kill at least 1 other boss up there before you could kill Raj that might be workable.

Of course it is likely then everyone would just do that and skip the trash fest of the normal 2nd boss that guard the 2nd floor now but it would be something.
95 Blood Elf Mage
12520
When my DK tank is doing heroics, every boss will be on the agenda. If it were up to me, the last boss would have their health pool and damage output doubled for every remaining boss alive. That means Rajh would have 64 million health and one-shot even raid-geared tanks if the group does only the required bosses.
85 Human Priest
7440
And fermented....your post has already been answered earlier in one of my previous posts: you don't like it, you leave but for people that actually want to be there, we will stay cause we need the gear.


Don't think you got where I am coming from; and you've mistakened my 'opt' as a demand not to do it. Believe me, I think I have ran enough HoO to know when the group will fail at the optionals. If the entire group opts to do the run, I'll oblige, or leave, depending on how the chances look. What I'm trying to explain to you why possibly, some people are opting to skip optionals, is because of these risks.


03/14/2011 8:14 PMPosted by Holyprest
P.S. also fermented...i bring up the issue of stupid tanks and stupid dps in my post on page 5 as well, if you want to look it over it's near the bottom of the page :).

I don't see any mention of stupid dps. Just a blanket statement of your tanks failing. Thanks for reminding me to read your "page 5 post near the bottom". Tells me a lot about yourself.

03/14/2011 5:30 PMPosted by Holyprest
on a personal note: people die all the time in my instances cause tanks seem to think they rule the instance...but you didn't hear that from me it's just random occurances you know?


Are you going to complain when you can't skip them after you don't need any gear?

When i join an instance i expect it to be hard on me...(whether having stupid dps or sometimes stupid tanks) only fighting 3/7 of the bosses in an instance, i feel it's stupid. I WANT a challenge, but to answer your question will i complain? No, once i have gear i'll be happy but then i'll complain for the friend of yours who wants gear off these bosses, my friend who wants gear, chuck norris's friend who wants gear....it's not just me who wants gear off of these bosses and have been unlucky in getting people who want to just skip to the end.


I should've been more clear to mention that it was mentioned in a previous post and was actually in a quote box itself, i apologize on that part.

Onto answering your question: if people keep skipping these risks how will anybody be able to do them? i do believe at the beginning of cata, there was alot of complaining on the part of healers and tanks cause we actually had to DO something, unlike in the WOTLK counterpart (no offense to any of you WOTLK junkies out there who loved it, i was not a big fan). Now you see less and less of that...people get buffed, bosses get nerfed, gear gets easier to attain, and all of us learned to play better to get through the tough instances....once people actually start DOING these bosses, this will be less and less of an issue, i assure you.
90 Human Paladin
9475
[quote]Seems again this is all about what you want. Isn't that kind of... selfish?


Seems again you forget to read....did you ever look at my VERY last post before the post you linked? page 5, near the bottom...[quote]
Where you talk about how everyone's gone through this? Yes, so I'd think it would occur to you that we've all found ways to deal with skipping bosses and still maintain a position that they'd be skippable.

Take the healing mace that drops from Setesh. While trying to farm that, I also would queue up for Blackrock where a mace dropped from an unskippable boss. Once I got that mace, Setesh was no longer neccessary. Oh, and if I was outvoted back then I had no problem, since after all I have some measure of caring for what other people in the group want.

Again, you keep ignoring that you think what you want matters more than what the 4 other people in your party want. If you must solo queue for LFD to farm an optional boss, at least mention at the begging of the run that you want to do a certain boss. If there's disagreement, at least it can be settled at the beginning of the run. The entire point of optional bosses is so the group can decide what to do.

03/14/2011 8:51 PMPosted by Holyprest
it's a waste of time to do bosses that someone spent probably literally months to prepare? designers, ability crafters...an entire developing team is devoted to making these fights so you can get gear and feel like you've accomplished something.

And yet they intentionally make them skippable, a feature that's always been in place in WoW.

It's a group decision. If you're not willing to go with what the group wants, don't use LFD. I do optional bosses when the votes are against me, I expect others to have the same courtesy if they're voted down.
8 Worgen Warrior
0
I skip every boss I can skip. Frankly, because I think it's a waste of time to do extra bosses. HoO without extra bosses I've done in 20 minutes. With the extra bosses, it's about an hour and a half.

The extra bosses people tend to wipe upon. Because they're often skipped, some DPS STILL don't know the mechanics, so it takes them a long time to go down. If you're asking to do the extra bosses, I know you're not geared. Why should it be my responsibility to gear you? I'm never going to see you after this run.

For some of us, running dailies is the only way we can amass VP. And it takes a LOT of runs to get geared... A month of running without fail for one chestpiece. Same for Leggings. I've done HoO before, and I'm gonna do it again many times. I'd just as soon get in and out of there as fast as possible. Raids call. Real life calls. If you want to spend extra time in there, form a group for that purpose.



This so much.
85 Human Priest
7440
03/14/2011 9:12 PMPosted by Kurnea
[quote]Seems again this is all about what you want. Isn't that kind of... selfish?


Seems again you forget to read....did you ever look at my VERY last post before the post you linked? page 5, near the bottom...[quote]
Where you talk about how everyone's gone through this? Yes, so I'd think it would occur to you that we've all found ways to deal with skipping bosses and still maintain a position that they'd be skippable.

Take the healing mace that drops from Setesh. While trying to farm that, I also would queue up for Blackrock where a mace dropped from an unskippable boss. Once I got that mace, Setesh was no longer neccessary. Oh, and if I was outvoted back then I had no problem, since after all I have some measure of caring for what other people in the group want.

Again, you keep ignoring that you think what you want matters more than what the 4 other people in your party want. If you must solo queue for LFD to farm an optional boss, at least mention at the begging of the run that you want to do a certain boss. If there's disagreement, at least it can be settled at the beginning of the run. The entire point of optional bosses is so the group can decide what to do.

03/14/2011 8:51 PMPosted by Holyprest
it's a waste of time to do bosses that someone spent probably literally months to prepare? designers, ability crafters...an entire developing team is devoted to making these fights so you can get gear and feel like you've accomplished something.

And yet they intentionally make them skippable, a feature that's always been in place in WoW.

It's a group decision. If you're not willing to go with what the group wants, don't use LFD. I do optional bosses when the votes are against me, I expect others to have the same courtesy if they're voted down.


How am i ignoring what the 4 other people of the group want, if what we all want is gear? your VP you get from the instance will be used to purchase gear. The reason blizzard makes these bosses skippable is cause people make arguments like mine, and they put up suggestions if a boss is too hard.

Please try to remember that not EVERY drop has a counterpart, even tho most do...and that if i wanted a particular piece of gear, it's cause it has a certain stat that another piece of gear does not have, upgrades are always upgrades.

03/14/2011 9:12 PMPosted by Kurnea
Oh, and if I was outvoted back then I had no problem, since after all I have some measure of caring for what other people in the group want.


Where did i even mention outvoting? i have no problem being outvoted, it's getting the chance to have a vote is what i'm arguing.

I'll state this again so everyone can know: i am here to make optional bosses be un-optionalized, i am not going against what my group wants, if we all HAVE to do the bosses how can you possibly be going against what the group wants? Pulling the "optional bosses are optional" is a little lame, considering the instance in itself is optional and if you don't want to do the bosses then leave.

P.S. i said at the beginning i had wanted the blood of isiset off of Isiset, nobody said anything to me and i figured i'd just go with it which was in the end, my fault for not pursuing the topic. (i mainly said i had wanted the blood of isiset for the prot pally in the group who joined had a holy set i saw it before he took it off, i didn't want him steal it but i didn't expect to run into this problem).

Besides....rogues out there everywhere are hating you cause your skipping the only boss that gives them a chance at a ranged weapon! :P one rogue in a group of 5 doesn't make a difference to you does it?
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