Heroic Halls of Origination

90 Human Paladin
9475
03/14/2011 9:27 PMPosted by Holyprest
How am i ignoring what the 4 other people of the group want, if what we all want is gear?

If 4 people want to skip and you think that shouldn't matter, you're ignored what they want.

03/14/2011 9:27 PMPosted by Holyprest
Where did i even mention outvoting? i have no problem being outvoted, it's getting the chance to have a vote is what i'm arguing.

I just came from one of those groups, where 3 guildies (since blizzard made it that doing a guild group gives more guild rep, it's more common you find 3+ guildies together), me and another pug, i found myself outvoted 4/5 people wanted to just skip to the last boss when there are quite a few nice drops off the other 3 on the 2nd floor


I'll make a few things clear:

Optional bosses have always been in WoW, and if the majority wants to skip, it shouldn't be much of a problem. Many solutions have been given: farm a substitute from somewhere else, or queue up with 2 other people who don't want to skip bosses.
85 Human Priest
7440
How am i ignoring what the 4 other people of the group want, if what we all want is gear?

If 4 people want to skip and you think that shouldn't matter, you're ignored what they want.

Where did i even mention outvoting? i have no problem being outvoted, it's getting the chance to have a vote is what i'm arguing.

I just came from one of those groups, where 3 guildies (since blizzard made it that doing a guild group gives more guild rep, it's more common you find 3+ guildies together), me and another pug, i found myself outvoted 4/5 people wanted to just skip to the last boss when there are quite a few nice drops off the other 3 on the 2nd floor


I'll make a few things clear:

Optional bosses have always been in WoW, and if the majority wants to skip, it shouldn't be much of a problem. Many solutions have been given: farm a substitute from somewhere else, or queue up with 2 other people who don't want to skip bosses.


Then i'll make more clear...arena points had always been in WoW, badges had all been in WoW, the old Orgrimmar was a apart of WoW, yet all of that was taken out with the come of cataclysm. Nothing is set in stone and if you want me to farm a substitute for the equivalent of Blood of Isiset please tell me where to get one, cause the spirit granted from this trinket is nothing short of amazing for a healer.

I should make this clear: i am not here to argue over my own group not wanting to do the bosses, i am here to argue the fact that every group i run into doesn't want to do these bosses, about 95% of groups i run into have people who just want to skip to rajh. I can get a guild group if i wanted too, but i don't want too -- i like playing solitary. There are people who need gear off these bosses and i doubt i'm the only one who has argued this in the past.

edit: fixed an error
Edited by Holyprest on 3/15/2011 4:54 AM PDT
90 Draenei Paladin
12105
Find like-minded people and do your own run if you want full clears. I'm not against doing it and I have certain "priviledges" (being a tank if I'm going for a full clear and you pout and rage, i'll leave and get another instant-queue with a group that does). That being said, if 3 out of 5 want a quick run (my own opinion being "whatever"), I would rather ruin the day for one of them, not the other 2.

Seriously, how hard is it to type "/1 LFM HoO heroic full clear pst ?
Edited by Nemuraan on 3/15/2011 5:34 AM PDT
1 Human Warrior
0
03/13/2011 3:04 PMPosted by Ciarge
the last boss is rahj. no one skips the last boss. they skip all the optional ones


And just who determines what is an optional boss? Oh wait, I forgot, it's a "whatever I want is what's everyone gonna get" type of Wrathbaby mentality.

And yes, this has happened to me a lot too.
1 Human Warrior
0
The simple fix for this is, and it's one Blizz should consider because it would actually HELP them control how fast people burn through content, is to simply make ALL bosses mandatory in order to get your JP/VP. It's not much, but those extra 5-10 minutes add up over time, slowing the rate at which you can burn through content for those who are doing so, and helps others who actually need the points and/or gear have a chance to get an upgrade.

If those 5-10 extra minutes are too much of a chore for you, then maybe this isn't the game for you. After all, this ISN'T wrath anymore.

Stop being a Wrathbaby!
/points @ all the boss skippers.
85 Human Priest
7440
Find like-minded people and do your own run if you want full clears. I'm not against doing it and I have certain "priviledges" (being a tank if I'm going for a full clear and you pout and rage, i'll leave and get another instant-queue with a group that does). That being said, if 3 out of 5 want a quick run (my own opinion being "whatever"), I would rather ruin the day for one of them, not the other 2.

Seriously, how hard is it to type "/1 LFM HoO heroic full clear pst ?


About as hard as it is to down 3 out of 7 of the bosses in an instance. I can find people to do the instance, yes. But people will run into this problem still yet if this continues....what people keep telling me is that this is my problem, it's not my problem i'm not arguing for myself i'm arguing for the people who want gear off those bosses and have been unlucky in getting groups who want to skip to the last boss.
03/13/2011 3:19 PMPosted by Casterclysm
The random dungeon system already forces geared people (who want/need to do their daily VP) grind through heroics they clearly need nothing from, to carry ungeared folks through these dungeons. This entire premise is why that "other" game community was so up-in-arms about even having a random dungeon finder. Especially cross-realm.
What?

I rarely feel like I carry anyone. It happens occassionally where someone clearly isn't doing their part, but seldom do I feel like I "carry" another player. I'm laid-back in my approach to dungeons and that's probably why I can initiate a kick whenever I want (which is hardly ever) and things that nerf if don't bother me.

Part of running Heroics is to GET geared, so if I'm pulling 11k deeps and a player new to Heroics is only doing 7k but they are not standing in the fire and avoiding the damage they can, they listen and/or ask questions, and they are contributing to the experience, they're doing their part and I'm glad to see them get Heroic drops if they're lucky as well as the JPs/VPs and instance experience.

You weren't geared when you first went into Heroics, either, and I bet you would rankle against someone saying they carried you. The biggest problem with Heroics in my experience is not undergeared/learning players trying to GET geared and gain Heroic instance knowledge, but arrogant twits who feel entitled and don't have the basic people skills they should have been taught at home when they were five.
90 Human Paladin
9475
03/15/2011 6:53 AMPosted by Airict
The simple fix for this is, and it's one Blizz should consider because it would actually HELP them control how fast people burn through content, is to simply make ALL bosses mandatory in order to get your JP/VP.


Do that, and people will simply bail on the longer instances. I'm sure you think that sounds fine now, but wait till you've cycled through a good range of healers or tanks before you find someone willing to stay through a 7 boss instance.

03/15/2011 6:53 AMPosted by Airict
It's not much, but those extra 5-10 minutes add up over time, slowing the rate at which you can burn through content for those who are doing so, and helps others who actually need the points and/or gear have a chance to get an upgrade.

If you're interested in people helping you, that's why you advertise in trade chat. /2 Hi, I need some help getting a group for ....., I'd like to do a full clear! PST if interested or willing to help out."

Question: If people feel that everyone should be obligated to help kill every boss, does the same count for heroic achievements? After all, many people want those achievements, and they should be helped, even if other people don't want to do them, right?
Edited by Kurnea on 3/15/2011 10:35 AM PDT
90 Goblin Rogue
6380
I know others have said it, but there is only 1 346 throwing weapon in the game and it drops off one of these "optional bosses". Also, Blood of Isiset is pretty awesome for my resto-druid. For all the H-Rajh kills I have across 2 toons, I have only 1 Isiset kill and no other optional bosses. LFD tanks refuse to do these "optional" bosses.

Here's the biggest problem. Once you kill Rajh and the tank leaves, you can't queue for the other 3 bosses. I've had a tank promise to stay after Rajh only to leave.
85 Night Elf Hunter
2380
Even when I am on my tank (who is somewhat new to heroics and still gearing in them) I get pushback when I want to do bosses like the hall of suck in ToT or the fireboss / 3 bosses in Hoo. They will eventually go along with me, but I have to argue it pretty hard.

85 Tauren Druid
9320

I should make this clear: i am not here to argue over my own group not wanting to do the bosses, i am here to argue the fact that every group i run into doesn't want to do these bosses, about 95% of groups i run into have people who just want to skip to rajh. I can get a guild group if i wanted too, but i don't want too -- i like playing solitary. There are people who need gear off these bosses and i doubt i'm the only one who has argued this in the past.

edit: fixed an error


Well, a preliminary thought: If you want your solution to be a good solution (whatever it may be), at least make sure people that DO want to skip to Rajh still have that opportunity.

So, I see your point, but I don't see how Blizzard could implement something to really handle what you're looking for (short of some genius UI dev taking on the case). Think of it this way: If there are 3 mandatory bosses in H HoO and 4 optional bosses, that means there are 2^4=16 combinations of bosses to be killed on a given run. That fact in hand consider the problem with ONE naive solution (just off the top of my head):

Say that Blizzard puts in a new option in the Dungeon Finder that lets you choose a preference for doing optional bosses or not. How would that be designed? If I ONLY want to do Ammunae for the int/spirit/crit ring, does that mean I have to select the "Yeah, I'll do the optional bosses" and be stuck in there for another 3 boss kills? And clearly there's no good way to select specifically which bosses you want to do (think how much 16 different options for H HoO would fragment the population queueing... queues would take forever).

So, that's my straightforward solution, and a straightforward reason why it doesn't work. Ultimately, I don't see a good way for Blizzard to do anything about this, aside from letting people handle it as they want themselves. After all, it only sort of matters that you're a "solitary" player, if you're participating in group content -- ESPECIALLY if you're not willing to go through the effort of finding a group that matches your mindset...

I think you're just putting too many constraints and demanding things go your way, when it's just plain unrealistic. I think a better approach would be to try modifying how you approach groups/5mans in general, see if you can find a way to get what you want within the current system.
90 Tauren Priest
12665
You're also farming BlackRock, right? There's a mace of comparable quality that drops from the first boss, and is mandatory to kill.


Yep, I do BlackRock, SFK, Grim Batol (for Wild Hammer for my husband), Halls and Lost City. Unfortunately for me the only time I've seen Torturer's Mercy, a moonkin won it.

I believe that if the majority of the group will do a boss, they should do it regardless of one tank/heals/dps's wishes. I said that I wanted to do Springvale in SFK and even though the tank said "no" there were two other dps that wanted to, so we did it... and I got my cloak ^.^

Now that I don't need Springvale, if someone else wants him, sure I'll do it. I don't understand how people can treat other people in 5 mans... We're all there together and for that 20/30 minutes we're a team and should treat each other with respect. If someone needs something from a specific boss, let's do it :)
90 Human Warrior
7195
I am annoyed with how everybody skips to the last boss...I've done this instance so many times in between all of my 85s enough to know how annoying it is. Alot of good gear is put onto the other bosses but groups don't want to do those they just want to skip to the last boss.

I just came from one of those groups, where 3 guildies (since blizzard made it that doing a guild group gives more guild rep, it's more common you find 3+ guildies together), me and another pug, i found myself outvoted 4/5 people wanted to just skip to the last boss when there are quite a few nice drops off the other 3 on the 2nd floor. Blood of Isiset, band of life energy, legwraps of astral rain...all of those drop from other bosses and none from Rajh, and all of them are upgrades for me.

Perhaps in the next patch you could possibly set it up so you can't just skip to the last boss and you have to complete the other 3 first? maybe like poles of light like you see in uldum that connect to activate the stone statue of Rajh? I am tired of getting gibbed in getting gear, this i believe falls under the rules of regulation of "interfering with another person's playing time" or something along those lines...cause my gear basically is determined by 4 other group members, where I'd say about 60% of the time is a bunch of guildies and about 98% of the time, people want to just skip to Rajh.

Please fix this for healers, dps, and anyone else that wants gear off the last few bosses in Heroic Halls of Origination (it's not so much a problem in reg cause you don't get valor and i found alot of groups went along with it).

edit: just making sure...but this is where i was supposed to post this i hope?


I've not had this problem, only because every time I've gotten this one on heroic, almost everyone leaves; which is really annoying considering I had spent around 40 mins in the queue -_-. But, if I were to get in a group that would stay, I'd be looking to do all bosses too.
90 Night Elf Druid
16180
I always ask if anyone needs any of the optional bosses. As a tank, it's my decision as to where we go so even if one person wants to run a boss, we'll do it. If everyone is fine with skipping, we'll skip.

I like having bosses that can be skipped - Beauty in Blackrock Caverns and the Mindbender Ghur'sha encounter in Throne of the Tides is a good example of bosses that can be skipped.

I'd like to have something done to the bosses in Halls of Origination, though, so that at least one of the three other elemental bosses have been killed before engaging Rajh. Perhaps give Rajh an 'Elemental Infusion' buff:

Elemental Infusion:
The power of the elements inspires Rajh, increasing damage dealt by 500% and reducing damage taken by 95%. Removed when one of the elemental overseers is slain.

90 Human Paladin
9475
03/15/2011 10:40 AMPosted by Delarie
You're also farming BlackRock, right? There's a mace of comparable quality that drops from the first boss, and is mandatory to kill.


Yep, I do BlackRock, SFK, Grim Batol (for Wild Hammer for my husband), Halls and Lost City. Unfortunately for me the only time I've seen Torturer's Mercy, a moonkin won it.

I believe that if the majority of the group will do a boss, they should do it regardless of one tank/heals/dps's wishes. I said that I wanted to do Springvale in SFK and even though the tank said "no" there were two other dps that wanted to, so we did it... and I got my cloak ^.^

Now that I don't need Springvale, if someone else wants him, sure I'll do it. I don't understand how people can treat other people in 5 mans... We're all there together and for that 20/30 minutes we're a team and should treat each other with respect. If someone needs something from a specific boss, let's do it :)


What if most of the group wants to skip? I still don't get how this 'we're a team!' only applies with getting what you want. If 4 people want to skip, why is only the need of the one person who wants to do it imperative? Granted if the group decides to do a boss I won't raise a fuss unless we stop wiping.
90 Tauren Priest
12665
What if most of the group wants to skip? I still don't get how this 'we're a team!' only applies with getting what you want. If 4 people want to skip, why is only the need of the one person who wants to do it imperative? Granted if the group decides to do a boss I won't raise a fuss unless we stop wiping.


Then we skip... If you read my previous post I said:

I've had the tank run away to skip even though it was a majority that wanted the boss :/


In that instance 3 of us wanted Setesh and the tank ran off with another dps and refused to kill Setesh.

I understand you were trying to chit all over my "working as a team" post but please do not put "words" in my mouth.
70 Human Warrior
860
03/13/2011 9:15 PMPosted by Celandor
Do you realise what would happen if you had to kill all seven bosses in Halls of Origination? It would never get done. Too many people would just drop group as soon as they saw what instance it was and wait for their timer to run out and then just queue again.



If people drop because they have to run for an additional 5-12 minutes, then I don't want them in my group.

Hell, Blizzard should've done what they did with ZG. For every boss alive when you engage Rajh, he gets a buff. One alive, 180% increased melee damage. Two alive- Previous buff, and cannot be interrupted. Three alive...previous two, and attacks 350% faster.


(Not the actual buffs from ZG of course, just an example of how they could fix this)
Edited by ßroseidon on 3/15/2011 10:56 AM PDT
85 Human Warrior
4075
When i tank i always ask to the other members if they want to do all the bosses or if they need an specific item from an optional boss, anyways i want some fun, if they don't want to do all the instance fine by me, as a tank i don't want to be rude, everyone's opinion matters for me in my groups in order to have a nice ride, it's a democracy for me.
Edited by Armina on 3/15/2011 11:03 AM PDT
85 Blood Elf Priest
4845
Then i'll make more clear...arena points had always been in WoW, badges had all been in WoW, the old Orgrimmar was a apart of WoW, yet all of that was taken out with the come of cataclysm. Nothing is set in stone and if you want me to farm a substitute for the equivalent of Blood of Isiset please tell me where to get one, cause the spirit granted from this trinket is nothing short of amazing for a healer.

I should make this clear: i am not here to argue over my own group not wanting to do the bosses, i am here to argue the fact that every group i run into doesn't want to do these bosses, about 95% of groups i run into have people who just want to skip to rajh. I can get a guild group if i wanted too, but i don't want too -- i like playing solitary. There are people who need gear off these bosses and i doubt i'm the only one who has argued this in the past.


First - there is a better trinket from the last boss of stonecore. I believe there are actually a few trinkets better than Blood of Isiset.

Second - You have said many times that you like being a solitary player. There are many things you can do without stepping into instances altogether. There are many quests and daily you can do. No one is making you go into dungeons at all.

Third - When you click the "LFD" button, you are saying "I don't want to play by myself and would like to play with four other players". Why not just make a group so instead of a "95%" chance of missing the boss you want to kill, you then have a 0% chance of missing said boss?

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