Fear of 25s?

2 Undead Mage
0
Why is every guild on this server scared of 25 man raiding? Is there not enough organization to take some guilds 3-4 teams and make a 25 man? Or does the Wrath mentality of 10s are easier than 25s still in effect.

News flash, 25 mans are overall easier that 10s in Cata (and I say overall, not this boss is easier than that boss, but I'm sure the responses will fill up with X boss is easier on 10 man).

Stop being so nostalgic and get with the times.
Edited by Margary on 3/16/2011 9:08 AM PDT
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1 Gnome Rogue
0
This is a great question, and I totally agree with the OP.

Nothing gets on my nerves more than two different groups in trade forming 10 man BH at the same time.
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82 Draenei Death Knight
8580
Define easier? It is way more easy to find 10 people that are capable of not messing up then adding 15 players to a roster... This server does shy away from 25 man content but then again this server really has no point of doing 25 mans. Either way the guilds on this server progression is sub par in 10 mans. Imagine 25 mans I'm sure they would still be 10/12 if even that.
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2 Undead Mage
0
03/16/2011 10:11 AMPosted by Piano
Define easier? It is way more easy to find 10 people that are capable of not messing up then adding 15 players to a roster... This server does shy away from 25 man content but then again this server really has no point of doing 25 mans. Either way the guilds on this server progression is sub par in 10 mans. Imagine 25 mans I'm sure they would still be 10/12 if even that.


And this is the cop out I was expecting would come out first and why this server will continue to stick to 10s.

There are more than enough capable raiders from the smattering of guilds on this server. Problem is, everyone feels like they have the "friends" with their guild mates and not just raid with them. There is a "friends" list for a reason. Just because you don't like someone, doesn't mean you can't cooperatively kill internet monsters with them.

Bottom line, less clicks, more 25s.
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82 Draenei Death Knight
8580
Yup no argument here.
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
13215
On this server, you can barely get the pre-pubescent pricks to stop trolling trade (badly) long enough to even attempt a BH10 pug, let alone a serious 25 player raid pug.

Also, many "casual" guilds, which seem to be the vast majority of them, don't have 25 people geared for heroics, let alone raids. And the ones that do can't ever seem to get more than 12 of them online at a time. And out of those 12, 4 of them have to "log off soon."

For some reason, too, there's a renewed interest in doing the old Wrath raid content for achievements, mounts, etc. Please do not look at my guild's achievements for the past month. It's like the mentality is, "Hey we're not geared enough to do the new raid content. Let's go do the old content we outgear totally." Instead of, "Hey, we're not geared to raid the new content, so let's go farm a ton of mats for crafted epics for the guild bank, run almost-geared players through dungeons and geroics to get them gear and rep for better gear, and while we're at it, maybe we could get some herbs for our scribes to make those nifty new trinkets everyone seems to like so much."

Hmm... Kinda went of on a tangent. Oopsie. But you get the idea.
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90 Gnome Rogue
PhD
11995
I like the part where he made an alt to agree with himself
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2 Undead Mage
0
03/16/2011 7:12 PMPosted by Kopo
I like the part where he made an alt to agree with himself


And I liked the part where Kopo came in and tried to be funny.

That's always my favorite part of these threads.
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85 Goblin Mage
10105
To find 25 players at the same caliber of a 10m alone makes 25's harder than 10's .

Let's say somehow the best 10m guild on this server replicated themselves to 25 people and played at the level they do in 10m then possibly have a better chance.

On a lot of bosses on 25M H, one person can lead to a wipe :)

H Omnitron - Shadow Conductor target not stacking, Lightning Conductor target stacking, Flamethrower not coordinated, Missed interrupt Arcane Annihilator, Poison Bomb blowing up after deathgrip into Poison Cloud will probably lead to a wipe.

But anyway staying on topic
10 good players for 10m > 17 good players and 8 deadweights/parasites for 25m
Edited by Luminatyra on 3/17/2011 5:30 AM PDT
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85 Night Elf Warrior
9955
I guess the real question is for the OP: Why don't you do it yourself if its so easy?
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90 Gnome Mage
PhD
11375
03/16/2011 7:12 PMPosted by Kopo
I like the part where he made an alt to agree with himself


Yeah I totally agree
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100 Night Elf Warrior
11375
With time, as the guilds of cataclysm collapse and other strengthen, I think it is likely to see 1-2 25man guilds on this server.

The Heroics are rougher than anything encountered before in Woltk by most of the gnomeregish population and it is my belief that as more guilds collapse, players who want to be competitive and remain on the same server than their friends will be able to unite their efforts.

Plus, Having a 25man guild has a lot of advantages, since you can switch back and forth 10-25man for progression and first kills. 25 man Will come naturally, probably 2 performant 10man merging together for tier 12.
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2 Undead Mage
0
03/17/2011 5:52 AMPosted by Gallywix
I guess the real question is for the OP: Why don't you do it yourself if its so easy?


Never said it was easy. What I was simply pointing out was I see a lot of guilds trying to fill roles for 2-3 10 man raids. Why not simply merge the 30+ into a 25 man? Guess it justs goes back to the title, the fear of 25s now.

And just for argument's sake, let's break down some reasons why, just by the numbers.

1 death in a 10 man = 10% of your raid.
1 death in a 25 man = 4% of your raid.

10% > 4%

Already, you are 250% more likely to down content. '

Inb4 math is hard.
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100 Night Elf Warrior
11375
1 death in a 10 man = 10% of your raid.
1 death in a 25 man = 4% of your raid.

10% > 4%

Already, you are 250% more likely to down content. '

Inb4 math is hard.


My response to that was more along to lines of : you are a one sided moron in this argument.
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2 Undead Mage
0


My response to that was more along to lines of : you are a one sided moron in this argument.


How am I a moron asking for things NOT to be one sided as they stand currently?

Nice response, next will be the umadbro or QQ moar. Typical.
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85 Human Priest
3825
To be honest I think a lot of players are afraid of doing 25 man raids. I've tried since the beginning of Cataclysm to get our guild into 25 mans, but only about half of our raiders are willing to try it. I have always loved 25 man, but I guess some people just prefer doing 10 man.

I could care less which size is easier. 25 man just feel more epic to me. It feels like more of an accomplishment when the guild as a whole comes together to down a new boss on 25 man, than it does when 1 group out of 3 kills something.
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82 Draenei Death Knight
8580
03/17/2011 5:25 AMPosted by Luminatyra
H Omnitron - Shadow Conductor target not stacking, Lightning Conductor target stacking, Flamethrower not coordinated, Missed interrupt Arcane Annihilator, Poison Bomb blowing up after deathgrip into Poison Cloud will probably lead to a wipe.


SC... Tell your priest to life grip harder bro.

LC... Tell the target to stand 10 yards away from the group bro.

FT... Tell your raid to move faster bro.

AA's... Enhance shammy bro.

PB... Dps harder bro.

Both 10 mans and 25 mans have their positives and negatives as always.

Some positives of a 10 man is having 10 players that know what they are doing and perform well. Negative is less rooms for mistakes and having to scramble for different classes to ensure proper raid composition.

25 mans also has many positives. One is that you can get 10 players to satisfy the raid comp and then stack the rest with certain classes for cd purposes. For example, you can stack 5 paladins, 3 priests, and 3 druids and play the cds accordingly.

3 Priests = 3 Guardian spirits, 3 PwB
5 Paladins= 5 Lay of hands, Bubbles.
3 Druids= 3 tranquility

Thats not including the tanks cd for survival.

In 25 mans you have way more cd's and ways to prevent deaths and to reassure the success rate then in a 10 man. You can also use 8-9 healers on some hardmode and ease the learning curve in 10 mans you are kinda stuck with 3 healers.

25 man negatives is that you might not have 25 players that perform on the same level. But believe me when I say that is in every single guild.

Do you guys really believe there are 25 players in these top guilds that just perform flawlessly as soon as content hits live servers? You are sadly mistaken. They put in countless hours, perform countless strategies on the ptr, and practice the kills over and over until it hits live realms. And thats in order to obtain WORLD kills. Not just a server first kill.

If you actually count up Paragon progression hours compared to this server weekly hours you guys will end up where Paragon is right on time.

Lets say 40 hours a week for their first progression week... Paragon that is.

40 hours of raiding progression from a guild on this server would probably be 1 month and one week to obtain the kill.

... Oh god I got caught up in my rambling =)

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