Galakrond and it's Trash runs let's move on.

85 Human Mage
6205
Hey guys, Dom here. My question is: Why so many BOT trash runs? I understand running Trash runs first month of cata, but we are entering the 4th month of cata and all I see in trade chat is LF trash runs... the funniest part is half the time the boe items get ninja'd and no one gets anything but fustrastion. Yall say Galakrond is fail, we are the worst/last server on progression bla bla bla. Maybe if you trash runners would try/kill bosses yalll would get better gear and VALOR POINTS!

The bosses aren't that hard, watch the video BUT LISTEN TO THE MECANICS ! the videos on youtube with cheesy music those wont help you! Tankspot is your friend google it. Use vent, communicate with each other. Don't be shy to point something out. Wiping doesn't hurt in real life lol ! try it ? Rinse and Repeat till you get it! I am sure you will eventually see success.

All I am saying is Take Bot to the next hallway Halfus doesn't bite so hard.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
12285
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2211961726

I think a lot of people feel that way. See Alivia's post for info
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
3110
Trash runs aren't isolated to this server. I've seen them organizing on all 5 servers that I have alts on.

I still say it is because raid bosses have been tuned over the abilities of the general player base. If healers could still do their jobs through stupid, then you would see more casual raiding. As is it's hard to find 3 competent healers in an organized guild structure.

Seriously... quit complaining about how other's are utilizing their $15 per month in trade. If you want to raid yourself and down the bosses, join a guild or find 9 others who share your opinion.
Edited by Palleon on 3/17/2011 5:16 PM PDT
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The people that run / organize trash runs don't read these forums.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
12150
In before Dom tried to beat me to the punch...oh wait...
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85 Human Mage
6205
Been there done that Palleon u obviously dont know me, learn your facts before u post garbage on my thread.
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85 Draenei Warrior
12440
You guys all have decent gear... can we get a trash run going between us for some shiny epics... I promise I won't ninja
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90 Night Elf Rogue
12150
Trash runs aren't isolated to this server. I've seen them organizing on all 5 servers that I have alts on.

I still say it is because raid bosses have been tuned over the abilities of the general player base. If healers could still do their jobs through stupid, then you would see more casual raiding. As is it's hard to find 3 competent healers in an organized guild structure.

Seriously... quit complaining about how other's are utilizing their $15 per month in trade. If you want to raid yourself and down the bosses, join a guild or find 9 others who share your opinion.


If your content running trash, more power to you sunshine. At the same time, sometimes it takes a kick in the rear to get some people moving in the right direction. So I am spending my 15 dollars a month working on motivating a server. If you don't like it, tough, go spend your 15 bucks elsewhere.

I mean, that is what you're saying right?:)
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
3110
I'm saying you're all wasting your time attempting to change the way others are playing the game. If you want to see progression out of the server, QQing about PUGs running trash isn't the way to go about it. Between the raid lockout changes and general game play changes, Blizzard has fundamentally made PUG raiding a different beast. You won't see many organizing boss kills, outside of Baradin Hold, until the content is no longer relevant.

Not to mention Xista has a very good point. Most players on this realm don't even visit these forums. So get over it or start organizing your own PUGs to show the rest of your faction how it's done. Obviously this has to be an all time epidemic that you all feel the need to keep brining this up.
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98 Gnome Priest
10600
Seriously... quit complaining about how other's are utilizing their $15 per month in trade. If you want to raid yourself and down the bosses, join a guild or find 9 others who share your opinion.
I would just like to point out that you're telling this to someone from Over Powered......yeah...
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
3110
If he's in a progression oriented group already, why does he care about what others are doing in trade PUGs? His lock outs are already in use.
Edited by Palleon on 3/18/2011 4:50 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Warrior
14650
03/18/2011 4:48 PMPosted by Palleon
If he's in a progression oriented group already, why does he care about what others are doing in trade PUGs? His lock outs are already in use.


Dumb question is dumb
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
3110
As is arguing over people doing trash runs. PUGs have zero influence over server progression rankings. If you guys want more progression, you need more guilds clearing content or to down bosses faster to improve your own guild's rankings.

The only ranking that matters, if you are into that sort of thing is your guild's anyway. Sen'Jin, Alterac Mountains, Blackrock, Illidan, etc... all are top rated because they have the top rated US guilds. Not because of 30-40 guilds killing bosses.

Take the example of Blackrock, which sits at #2. They have 198 guilds rated on wowprogress, and the US's number three guild alone contributes as much to the server's ranking as the bottom 168 guilds.
Edited by Palleon on 3/19/2011 7:38 AM PDT
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90 Night Elf Rogue
12150
As is arguing over people doing trash runs. PUGs have zero influence over server progression rankings. If you guys want more progression, you need more guilds clearing content or to down bosses faster to improve your own guild's rankings.

The only ranking that matters, if you are into that sort of thing is your guild's anyway. Sen'Jin, Alterac Mountains, Blackrock, Illidan, etc... all are top rated because they have the top rated US guilds. Not because of 30-40 guilds killing bosses.

Take the example of Blackrock, which sits at #2. They have 198 guilds rated on wowprogress, and the US's number three guild alone contributes as much to the server's ranking as the bottom 168 guilds.


At the same time, Pugs are necessary sometime to fill a spot. Ironically, only 8 people out of 10 need to be there as guildies. Therefore, 2 pugs can come in. Example, 1 of my healers has pneumonia, a tank is away for military training, and another healer has diseaseofstupidity or something. Point being, Instead of stealing 3 people from my 2nd raid team and crippling them, I take one or another guildie and pug 2 spots, therefore still contributing to server progression as well as guild.
Yet another example. During Icc I went through over 200 raiders. Ya know what the majority had in common? They were Pugs. They then went on to join our guild. And then, came and helped form our new guild. Everything really starts with Pugging unless you started on this game with friends. You can't know someone if you don't pug, you can't recruit without pugs. If you think Pugs are that unneccessary, then you need to open your eyes and look around you. Was Aces High formed by all real life friends ? If not, you severly underestimate the importance of pugs.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
3110
Now we are talking about two separate, but related topics. One is normal in-game relationship building process and the other is a couple guys in trade bringing in 5 or more random folks to get a 1 in 50 chance at a purple BoE.

I'm in complete agreement with both you and Dom, that trash runs are a complete waste of my time. However I'm also not participating in them, so those who do are not affecting me in the slightest. Do you really think that your guild with an established track record of downing bosses isn't going to be able to compete with them to bring in a healer/tank/dps for the night? Those who would pass you up because the risk is higher, you don't want anyway. They are the ones that are going to drop as soon as the first wipe after all.

The thing that is really hurting you isn't the trash PUGs. It's the new shared raid lockout system, and cross-server dungeon finder. In Wrath I had a huge friends list on my originally Alliance druid. That was built up from running heroics built out of old fashioned trade groups, so I got to know the decent tanks and DPS. These days you're lucky to see someone from the same server outside your guild that way. The other issue is that there is no more cross-polination of talents where 10-man guilds work together to clear the raids on 25-man.

Really that's how Aces High was built up. Everyone working their friends-list from Wrath and pulling together a lot of people who were in other guilds together before. Yes, we had a lot of problems with recruitment and retention, which is why it took so damn long to start killing bosses. However, people running trash when we are looking to fill a hole for the night is the least of my worries.
Edited by Palleon on 3/20/2011 7:40 AM PDT
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85 Human Paladin
2660
03/18/2011 12:44 PMPosted by Fathercream
Seriously... quit complaining about how other's are utilizing their $15 per month in trade. If you want to raid yourself and down the bosses, join a guild or find 9 others who share your opinion.
I would just like to point out that you're telling this to someone from Over Powered......yeah...


and?...

Who cares if people are running trash runs? Who care's if people are commenting on you running trash runs? Do whatever makes you happy.
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98 Gnome Priest
10600
I would just like to point out that you're telling this to someone from Over Powered......yeah...


and?...
And what? He was telling Idominate to join a guild to down bosses six days after Idominate was in the first Over Powered group to kill Heroic Chimaeron, and a month and a half after they had already cleared BWD and BoT on regular. I consider that downing bosses. Do you disagree?
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
3110
And my point was that such a person should not be complaining about the antics of people attempting to PUG content for an extremely low chance at a purple. It doesn't effect them in the slightest how others are wasting ... err... spending their time.

Usually, people who do complain about this are trying to get an alt into content. The changes to raid locks make this difficult, if there aren't enough people with alts in your main's guild this expansion. So most will turn to the PUG community to attempt to fill this need. I'm saying if you aren't raiding enough in your current guild and meeting your personal goals for your alts as well as a main, you may need to change your approach to finding them all a home.
Edited by Palleon on 4/5/2011 5:05 AM PDT
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
4780
Two comments then i'm done.

1.) Yes we already have lockouts saved that doesn't mean we dont' want our server to progress farther. It brings up our whole server ranking on wowprogress when we have multiple people downing bosses. You dont' want a monopoly on the server progression. It just makes it harder if you ever need to recruit because no one has done the content or anywhere near the content ur looking for.

2.) DUDE BRO, Yea our ONE toon is saved to lockouts. I have 9 alts all raid ready and just sitting there. If i see a pug in trade thats running trash i ignore it. If we had some pugs doing bosses i'm all over that. If you did more boss pugs vs trash pugs i'm sure that other people that have downed bosses have alts aswell. If you get where i'm going.
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90 Night Elf Warrior
14650
04/05/2011 05:04 AMPosted by Palleon
And my point was that such a person should not be complaining about the antics of people attempting to PUG content for an extremely low chance at a purple. It doesn't effect them in the slightest how others are wasting ... err... spending their time.


Your view of how people are affected by the raiding culture on this server is extremely limited. The fact that we only have trash runs and very few real pugs has significant consequences, even for a guild in heroic content. The main effect is, without any pugs happening, there's much less of an opportunity for new talent to be cultivated. At the moment it's practically impossible to recruit a good tank on this server because the number of people with access to the content is severely limited. If there were more people running pugs and downing a few bosses, more people would be: (a) learning the encounters. (b) getting more gear and valor points. (c) de-mystifying the concept of 'raiding' and the difficulty of a raid boss. All of these things put them in a position to become a stronger player.

Am I saying that if Joe Schmoe in a BoT/BWD pug manged to get 2/12 instead of just farming trash, I'd be recruiting him to tank for me? Not necessarily. But it's a step in the right direction, and the raiding ecosystem is very very very very very big. Making it a healthier ecosystem is a good thing for everyone within it, even if you can't see the immediate effects.

Our current raiding ecosystem is extremely weak compared to many other servers. One way (among many) that this could improve is by more casual players seeing real content and realizing how cool raiding is and realizing that doing 10-mans isn't this impossible goal way beyond their reach. If that happened, would it suddenly be easier for me to recruit a tank? Maybe not. But it increases the pool of experience and talent in an important way.

/endthread imo
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