High Level Guards Ruin World PVP

55 Blood Elf Paladin
640
03/17/2011 4:10 PMPosted by Bashiok
Hrm, I reckon it's rewards that ruined world PvP. Everyone harkens back to TM/SS as the holy grail of world PvP, and that was before and maybe slightly after the honor system was implemented (but before real rewards existed from it).

Yes, and no.
Rewards did play a large part, but it was more the ease of access of BGs.
Right now, it doesn't help that there's extremely high level guards guarding low level zones.
Guards create an adverse environment to "Spur of the moment" world PVP between lower level players.

I realise that most of the game takes place at high level, but why punish the lower level players who want to kill each other?

I think you can encourage world PvP all you want, and if there aren't rewards behind it you'll keep people interested for about as long as it takes them to realize there are other things to do that give real power increases. Why would anyone spend any amount of time just pushing back and forth for no reason when you can spend your time toward actual rewards and character improvement? Maybe there are some of you, but I guarantee it'd be short lived.

Up the amount of Honor Points you get from killing someone in the world.
If you got enough per single kill(With diminishing returns of course), that would help encourage people to leave the cities once in a while to seek PVP instead of relying on Canned PVP(BGs/Arena).


I mean shoot, you have Isle of Quel'Danas or even quest hubs in Cataclysm where people are literally forced together, and there's complaints that they just want people to stop PvPing so they can get their stuff done so they can get their rewards. That's kind of unfair because I know many did enjoy those situations, but somehow it never meets the awesomeness of TM/SS, and I reckon it just never could again.

The people who complain about PVP on PVP servers are on the wrong kind of server.
That's the point of a PVP server.
Random world PVP.


The best I can think that you could do is create a specific world PvP zone where you don't allow flying mounts, give some objective to tug-o-war over, and so you can justify giving some semi-meaningful rewards and keep people interested you'd need to find some way to even up the sides (because world PvP is inherently going to be unfair). I think you do all that and you probably have the best working solution for bringing back world PvP.

As long as it's not like Silithus, EPL, or Wintersgrasp(I haven't tried Tol Barad yet).

Heck, why not have a partial continent(two-three zones) where controlling specific towns opens up quest hubs.

You cap the town, you get to quest there.

The major problem I see arising from that would be the population disparities on various servers.
However, if you had a Wintersgrasp-esque buff that applied to each zone individually it would help allay that a little bit.
85 Blood Elf Priest
2880
03/17/2011 4:21 PMPosted by Schoolsterz
Remember back in the day when a group of horde would pillage a town and you could not quest. Blizz doesn't want it that way.


Then a group of alliance would have to actually fight for the right to quest.

/gasp World PvP


Or they would just log out, or move to another zone since no one cares to come help out cites and towns around the world. As long as it is not SW or Org nobody cares. All you are doing in that situation is griefing people trying to level.

That is not going to come back, get over it. As long as there is a little box we can all click to join a BG or dungeon, there is no need to go fight for anything that has no meaning.
55 Blood Elf Paladin
640
03/17/2011 4:23 PMPosted by Yourname
1 thing i never understood what does OP mean when they talk about the thread starter? i always assumed it was old poster, (whenever i read op i "hear?" old peen in my head, i know, i'm weird heh)

OP means "Original Poster".
85 Human Paladin
4215
Why would anyone spend any amount of time just pushing back and forth for no reason when you can spend your time toward actual rewards and character improvement?


I would much rather fight the opposing faction outside battlegrounds because to me, it is more meaningful, its real pvp (in the sense that your not just going around trying to capture flags, or capture bases, but your killing enemies outside "premade battlezones with objectives"

Even thought it gives no honor/rewards because of Blizz makeing that decision, its more rewarding to me to fight the opposing faction wherever that may be (besides in bgs)

Oh, and its better imo than constantly losing bgs.
85 Tauren Shaman
13460

The best I can think that you could do is create a specific world PvP zone where you don't allow flying mounts, give some objective to tug-o-war over, and so you can justify giving some semi-meaningful rewards and keep people interested you'd need to find some way to even up the sides (because world PvP is inherently going to be unfair). I think you do all that and you probably have the best working solution for bringing back world PvP.
Something like Halaa that isn't oh hey battle once every 2+ hours because that is just upsetting. Having it provide quality rewards equivalent to halaa battle tokens (maybe gold too), no not honor, honor rewards make any geared player say not worth my time. Just an open ended no queue place where 50 alliance can fight 20 horde then the horde run back calling their friends/guildies for help and the fight becomes larger and larger. Tie that in with no flying mounts, no guards, and strong incentives that take more than a few days to grind and you have a recipe for success.
87 Draenei Shaman
5910
The point of this thread was to illicit discussion on the subject.
Obviously "Joseph", and yourself are unable to do so.

Explain to me exactly how spawning guards relative to the attacking players' level is a bad idea.
This change would help stimulate world PVP.


When blizzard seperated PvP gear from PvE gear, world pvp started to die. Resil is the prime reason.


And this is the reason why I hate resil with a burning passion in my soul. Also I want PVP titles and the grind back, that was when pvp was fun. For me world pvp was the most fun for me then battlegrounds, and I loathed arenas when they came in bc.
- World of Warcraft
85 Dwarf Paladin
7640
03/17/2011 4:10 PMPosted by Bashiok
The best I can think that you could do is create a specific world PvP zone where you don't allow flying mounts, give some objective to tug-o-war over, and so you can justify giving some semi-meaningful rewards and keep people interested you'd need to find some way to even up the sides (because world PvP is inherently going to be unfair). I think you do all that and you probably have the best working solution for bringing back world PvP.


This reminds me: Last night my friends and I were playing on our alts. Some of my friends have Alliance alts, and the rest have Horde. Before long, There were two hunters, one mage, one rogue PVPing with each other -- all level 85.

To me, that's stimulating world PVP in a fun fashion.

Also can't forget how I got killed in the air while I was AFK on my alt :9
85 Night Elf Druid
6890
Rewards is hardly the reason world PVP died. Incentives are nice, but not the core reasn.

It died because everything became isolated from the open world. There were PVP fights all over, even before the implementation of the honor system.

When we had to actually zone into BGs, fights broke out outside. When we had to actually do some leg work to get into a raid zone, fights broke out.

I do agree with the guards, as much as griefing sucks for the victim, it does fuel an open pvp system.

However, the majority of the population wants a PvE game, the part I don't understand is - why join a PVP server then?


85 Night Elf Druid
7290
This has been brought up before under. I think with almost the exact same title.

L2Search please


In that vein, EVERY topic has virtually been discussed before... multiple times.

By this logic then, no one should make any posts whatsoever.
73 Worgen Rogue
910
World PvP still happens. I spent a lot of time in battlegrounds to gear up in full Grand Marshal gear at 60, and once again to gear up in almost full brutal (I was a few points short of the trinket) again at 70. I look for fights. I'm that tough kid that hangs out at the local arcade, pickin' fights with whoever might walk by.
85 Night Elf Druid
1735
World PvP was it's own reward, back in the proverbial day. World Pvp was engaged in because we could, and often had to, when we were out in the world questing and running around looking for Mankrik's wife or whatever else. Then, things like instanced BGs, LFD, queuecraft and the lack of any rewards for engaging in world pvp took their toll. Guardspawn hasn't helped anything, either.

For world pvp to have any sort of a widespread comeback, it needs to be promoted and taken out of the queue/sandbox venue, instead of being systematically squashed. Players need a reason to be out in the world and attacking things.

Perhaps a system of control points scattered throughout Azeroth without guards and with restrictions on flying, as well as some sort of minor buff to the faction that holds the majority of those points on the zone/continent/etc., would be enough to bring it back. Some sort of currency/reward/achievement or combination thereof would also be helpful.

We don't need anything really fancy to revive world pvp. Instead, some minor incentives would be adequate. There's lots of space in Azeroth to wage war in.
85 Troll Hunter
7360
Hrm, I reckon it's rewards that ruined world PvP. Everyone harkens back to TM/SS as the holy grail of world PvP, and that was before and maybe slightly after the honor system was implemented (but before real rewards existed from it). I think you can encourage world PvP all you want, and if there aren't rewards behind it you'll keep people interested for about as long as it takes them to realize there are other things to do that give real power increases. Why would anyone spend any amount of time just pushing back and forth for no reason when you can spend your time toward actual rewards and character improvement? Maybe there are some of you, but I guarantee it'd be short lived.

I mean shoot, you have Isle of Quel'Danas or even quest hubs in Cataclysm where people are literally forced together, and there's complaints that they just want people to stop PvPing so they can get their stuff done so they can get their rewards. That's kind of unfair because I know many did enjoy those situations, but somehow it never meets the awesomeness of TM/SS, and I reckon it just never could again.

The best I can think that you could do is create a specific world PvP zone where you don't allow flying mounts, give some objective to tug-o-war over, and so you can justify giving some semi-meaningful rewards and keep people interested you'd need to find some way to even up the sides (because world PvP is inherently going to be unfair). I think you do all that and you probably have the best working solution for bringing back world PvP.


If only there were someone at Blizz who felt this way . . .

:-P
55 Blood Elf Paladin
640
03/17/2011 4:52 PMPosted by Marathel
I don't have a problem with the high level guards. If I want to pick a fight i do it screaming "Charge" head on into Ogrimmar with friends.

You're also looking at it from a high level character's perspective.

As a 45-50 I couldn't attack Stormwind even if I wanted to.
Note:
I wouldn't, even if there was no guards.
All the level 85s would corpse camp me.


Before Cata I did that with my mage friend and dk. We often tore through cities ignoring lowbies(unless they tried to gank us with large numbers) and picked with the 80s. That was a lot of fun. When things got rough in Thunder Bluff she would slow fall us three and we would escape by jumping off cliffs and had 15 horde chasing us everywhere.

I think a very reasonable resource as 1 hour to 2 hour buffs could be done. Not only to zones but that sticks and persists through death. You guys could add contention points on both continents as well. Move the story along by some warfare and world pvp in general.

Again, you're looking at it from a High/Max level characters perspective.
100 Human Paladin
14340
Bring back something like Halaa or Hellfire forts and put in rewards(max level good rewards) for participating. The idea of TB/WG is fun and all. I just think its not really world pvp and more of a battleground for just the server to participate in(which i love btw, as much as im not a fan of the tb mechanics)

Would just like to see something more spontaneous(ie not on a timer or something you que for) and open the door for more smaller skirmishes. TB doesn't even feel like pvp to me
Edited by Mikerk on 3/17/2011 4:58 PM PDT
03/17/2011 4:10 PMPosted by Bashiok
Why would anyone spend any amount of time just pushing back and forth for no reason when you can spend your time toward actual rewards and character improvement?




Because back in the day, it was FUN gaining and losing ground, back and forth between TM/SS.

Now, it's just a job.

BG/Arena killed world PvP, it was all fine and fun, for the most of us, until TBC arrived.
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