High Level Guards Ruin World PVP

85 Orc Shaman
4630
High Level Guards Ruin World PVP


You know... REAL world PvP has died out since WWII. Don't think it's a game-only phenomenon.
thats not funny nor is it even remotely true
100 Draenei Priest
11940


You know... REAL world PvP has died out since WWII. Don't think it's a game-only phenomenon.
thats not funny nor is it even remotely true


It's funny if you have a sense of humor. Go back to your grinding :P.
59 Undead Hunter
310
We need a zone like Wintergrasp and Tol Barad, with one exception: Theres no queue and no set time the battle takes place.
There would be a specific reward you get from capturing the objective(s), with a reward that's beneficial, you would actually want to keep, and is server wide.
There are no time limits or participant limits, and fighting in the zone gives honor (obviously).
The objectives would be somewhat like many of the old world zone pvp objectives like Eastern Plaguelands, with a good incentive obviously.

Players will have to take it upon themselves to arrange groups, create strategies, and actually participate in the battle. When a team starts losing, they have to recruit more people to start winning again.

Also, another aspect of world pvp which I think everyone loved was just having a straight up deathmatch. Give us a battleground that has only one objective: kill as many people as possible. It would work like the reinforcement system in AV or it could just be a score that goes up until it reaches a certain point.


The reason people are getting bored of pvp is because Blizzard removed th 2 things about pvp that people loved: having a completely restriction-free environment to battle in, and just being able to fight rather than turtle a flag, sit bored at an AB node, or zerg a boss.

EDIT: hell, you could even give us a zone that simply says: PVP here. No incentive, no rewards, no restrictions, just a zone about the size of TB that world pvp takes place in. If no incentive bothers you, you could give extra honor for kills so it's a somewhat decent way of gearing up, but that's it. Just an all out battle in an unrestricted zone. (no flying mounts though)
If you just tell people, "This is a zone specifically set up for world pvp," people will flock to it.
Edited by Spiddle on 3/17/2011 8:53 PM PDT
85 Tauren Warrior
6715
It's not the guards level it's that they can shoot through walls.
Everyone harkens back to TM/SS as the holy grail of world PvP.




My friend, that's because it WAS the holy grail. TM/SS was the absolute best, with the most fun ever. It blew the AV marathons out of the water. Back and forth, one side gaining, only to have it taken away.

Back then, with TM/SS, no one cared about rewards. No one cared about acheivements. No one cared about anything except pushing the other faction back to their respective hole and beating them to a pulp.

No amount of BG or the stupid eSport Arena will EVER come close to shining the same as that one true Holy Grail.
90 Worgen Mage
8720
rose tinted glasses much?

it was fine it was even a little fun but meh its place is gone

you cant force people to do something they dont really want to do
maybe on a pvp server to a extent kind of but even thats gone

what probably seperates wow from alot of mmos is the player controlling what they do and when they do it no other player decides that for you
90 Worgen Mage
8720
if you want to play a game where you really influence other players play eve or another large pvp based game cause that is not wow

pvp is part of wow and will always be a part of wow but it is not uncontrolled pvp it is within contained environmental and guess what thats probably why wow has a large as playerbase as it is
85 Draenei Shaman
7985

Isle of Quel'Danas


Isle of Quel'Danas was my favorite place in the world back in BC, and I never really did any of the dailies.

/nostalgia laden sigh
44 Orc Warlock
625
03/17/2011 3:30 PMPosted by Jackise
Remember back in the day when a group of horde would pillage a town and you could not quest. Blizz doesn't want it that way.


That's hilarious considering it was hardly back in the day when I had world defense turned on so I knew if the NPC's would be up for questing in Tarren Mill and Crossroads.

People cry for the loss of world PvP, but how many of them remember waiting for some towns to actually be fully populated to hand in quests and pick up the next batch and there was no LFD to skirt you past that. It seemed like there were times with Crossroads was constantly under attack for days at a time.
91 Blood Elf Paladin
9375
03/17/2011 4:10 PMPosted by Bashiok
The best I can think that you could do is create a specific world PvP zone where you don't allow flying mounts, give some objective to tug-o-war over, and so you can justify giving some semi-meaningful rewards and keep people interested you'd need to find some way to even up the sides (because world PvP is inherently going to be unfair). I think you do all that and you probably have the best working solution for bringing back world PvP.


Well, the problem with TB is you have PvEers that have to do stuff there, and a lot of the rewards (specifically the money, rep, and a lot of the items) have PvE uses. The TB battle itself awards...quests for money and a PvE raid.

It's a PvP area that has PvE stuff on it, so PvEers feel they need to go there. This was, I believe, the devs' intent (a PvP area to unlock daily quests.) Generally, "daily" quests are associated with PvE content, not PvP content. So this was EXACTLY what the devs intended, but apparently has failed (and a lot of people suggested it might for just this reason.)


What you'd need is a PvP area that gave PvP rewards and had no PvE connection at all. This would focus PvPers there against other PvPers (instead of giving them a venue in which to attack PvEers who were trying to do their PvE thing.)

Another thing that Bliz needs to do is try to balance the factions on the realms. For example, Mug'Thol, my realm, is probably 4-1 to 5-1 Horde-Alliance ratio. What this means is if you have an unlimited entry area, Horde will dominate. But limiting the number of players is sucky for the larger faction because you can't ever get in (I haven't yet once been in a TB battle.) It also biases it to the weaker side (the Alliance that que in are organized PvPers, the Horde that get in are a smattering of random people, often many unskilled in PvP, which means we lose it a LOT.)


So...if you want world PvP, gotta even the populations and then put something there for PvPers to fight over. And if you don't want COMPLAINTS, it has to be something that PvEers won't have any interest in.

I believe it's possible to do these things...but I don't think we're going to see it happen. The realm balance would be the hardest to achieve (as I say, Mug has such an IMbalance, a lot of the Alliance either left the realm or faction swapped over to Horde. And when I was leveling back in BC, it was actually like 1.5 to 1, so it wasn't always this way.)
10 Blood Elf Warlock
40
03/17/2011 3:44 PMPosted by Karameldanse
Remember back in the day when a group of horde would pillage a town and you could not quest. Blizz doesn't want it that way.


Which is why the OP is requesting that the guards spawned are relevent to the level of the players. An 85 spawning at, say Fort Livington, will kill some Horde player who is between lv25 to 30 (or whatever the range is there), even though he is at the level to be questing there. The guard will do a wtfbbqhaxpwn of the Hordie who has no chance at all of killing the guard let alone get away from it.

If the spawning checks the level of the offending player and sets the level equal to the player then the player will have a fair chance to escape or fight as they choose. As it is for lower level zones the player has no chance at all. And gets flagged to boot.


Towns should be safe havens... stay away from opposing faction towns and this problem goes away...

The reason you have such high level elite guards in towns is because of the crossroads shenanigans that used to make it IMPOSSIBLE to finish quests there because Alliance players would go there and smash the guards and kill all the NPCs. This was their idea of creating World PVP... I am sure that horde did that to some Alliance town... Rather than let leveling players have to deal with that constant harassment, they upped the guard level. Problem solved.
85 Night Elf Death Knight
5910

I mean shoot, you have Isle of Quel'Danas or even quest hubs in Cataclysm where people are literally forced together, and there's complaints that they just want people to stop PvPing so they can get their stuff done so they can get their rewards. That's kind of unfair because I know many did enjoy those situations, but somehow it never meets the awesomeness of TM/SS, and I reckon it just never could again.

that's their own fault tho
they knew they risks when they rolled on a pvp server
ganking and getting ganked is part of life
85 Orc Shaman
4630
thats not funny nor is it even remotely true


It's funny if you have a sense of humor. Go back to your grinding :P.
no, it wasn't funny. You made the joke you can't say if it's funny or not!
100 Blood Elf Mage
9115
There need to be separate pvp objectives/resources that aren't tied to quest hubs and their associated faction protection.

Imagine if controlling some pvp resources (e.g. oil drilling platform off the coast of kalimdor/or southern stranglethorn) were to reward each player in the faction with something tangible to everyone. Gold

More players would see a value to the system if they got some random reward (daily?/every tuesday?) for their faction controlling a series of assets.

The old EPL and Hellfire (single zones /w multiple command-and-control node) systems get gamed. If the system was world-wide (spread between all zones and continents) the individual zone conflicts would matter. You couldn't just zerg one objective to dominate.

There are other possible incentives such as gold/silver mines(/w high-yield mining nodes), vibrant groves (/w high-yield herbalism nodes) which you would have to control to access. These more valuable market assets could be placed in higher traffic contested areas, to ensure they don't become some backwater area to easily farm mats. With much of the story revolving around dwindling resources, fighting over these nodes would make a lot of sense.

Also..Randomized world events, like a half-hour (or 45 minute) timed attack/seige on faction capitals by an enemy raid boss, where each side could assist in either attacking/defending adding a lot more engaging content to world PVP.

Guards won't make or break PVP - real content has to be implemented in a way that will inspire the greater population to get out of the city and do something.
Edited by Opheron on 3/17/2011 9:50 PM PDT
24 Draenei Hunter
260



The best I can think that you could do is create a specific world PvP zone where you don't allow flying mounts, give some objective to tug-o-war over, and so you can justify giving some semi-meaningful rewards and keep people interested you'd need to find some way to even up the sides (because world PvP is inherently going to be unfair). I think you do all that and you probably have the best working solution for bringing back world PvP.


Perhaps you've heard of this thing called 'wintergrasp'
85 Blood Elf Death Knight
9050
I really enjoyed TM/SS, but for me the holy grail of world PvP was by far and might always be Isle of Quel'Danas during the time between it's release and the unlocking of the badge vendor.

What it felt like to be on that island at the time was one huge, chaotic picnic of death. Everyone you knew was there, there were meaningful rewards to be had, an abundance of dailies, you could decide to run out and kill the people doing the dailies or just chill in the courtyard and just watch the chaos unfold around you, then jump back into it. You had people chatting in the buildings, other people dueling and showing off their skills in front of opposite faction spectators, people accidentally aggroing the guards as they tried to turn quests in to the hilarity of the bystanders...

The true indicator of its success was how people would linger around the island for hours, even after finishing their dailies.

I had one experience in IQD I'll never forget because it caused me to shed my first ever tears of laughter. It was the day that the badge vendor was about to be unlocked for my server, and everyone was in a frantic stampede to do the dailies. I remember it was a bright sunny morning and I had just gotten home from class at college. I logged in and carefully positioned my female blood elf rogue right on top of the female blood elf daily-giver. All of a sudden the dumb Alliance were triggering guard-aggro one after another by carelessly attacking me as they tried to turn in that daily. In about 15 minutes the building was littered with skeletons, and eventually a GM teleported me off the NPC with a sinister warning that if I did it again, I'd be teleported "somewhere else". Amazing!

So, Crusader's Coliseum was WotLK's opportunity to repeat that success, but it failed on 2 major counts: it was a Sanctuary Zone and the rewards were extremely weak-sauce compared to IQD. I'm sorry, but you can't create a phenomenon with RP rewards. To make an analogy, Crusader's Coliseum was like singing songs at Vacation Bible School to IQD's Woodstock.
Edited by Nyxxie on 3/17/2011 10:15 PM PDT
85 Dwarf Paladin
9830
Tol Barad and Wintergrasp are not World PvP. They have both been abject failures as far as creating a place for people to go and PvP in the world, because they are too restricted and inherently require fairness to succeed.

Successful world PvP embraces the unfairness, to let a battle rage across a countryside if it has to, before the horde gets stopped at the gates by the alliance army, etc.

But this cannot happen on most servers, where faction balance is truly broken and one side will always win. We need stricter faction balance control if world PvP is ever to be a consideration again. Mediocre once-every-two-hours battlegrounds don't count. Wintergrasp with flight and battles starting every 30min was amazing.
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