I quit.

99 Human Mage
16200
03/21/2011 1:56 PMPosted by Daxxarri
Completely serious - you effectively laugh at us for wanting to PUG content


We certainly don't. In fact, I've explicitly stated several times that we fully expect the content to become available to more players over time.


I understand this philosophy but waiting months for content to become easy enough isn't a great solution unless you add more other stuff to do. Coming straight out of Wrath where everything was pugged and slamming into this change of pace exacerbates the problem. Dailies and archeology aren't exactly compelling endgame content while waiting for this nebuolous 'nerf' timeline to develop. I can understand why players are upset.

I think not having an additional easy entry raid was a mistake tbh.
90 Human Warrior
16520

Raid bosses aren’t designed with pick up raids in mind, but the bosses should get more challenging as a raid progresses through the instance. Naxxramas is perhaps not a good benchmark to set raiding expectations against for a couple of reasons. It was content that a number of players were already familiar with, and it was also tuned to a difficulty that was a bit lower than we would have preferred.


Thanks for being honest w. us.

Now we can choose if we want to stay or leave.

Many will leave.
91 Gnome Mage
11860
03/21/2011 2:04 PMPosted by Marx
I pugged 7/12 on my paladin over the course of about four hours on Saturday. You aren't looking hard enough.


You're on one of the top servers for progression in this game. Look beyond the end of your nose and realize that most servers have nothing like that available.
MVP - World of Warcraft
12 Troll Shaman
60
And it will. For some reason people remember the last 6 months of Wrath and nothing else.

For someone who was a lot more successful in progression six months ago in Wrath, not doing so well in progression now and having to wait a few months longer for Cataclysm progression to trickle down to them is a hard adjustment. It's a progression reset, that means we all start over. And progression probably won't always be the way it is now, while we're still early in the Cataclysm expansion cycle. But it's hard to wait.
86 Draenei Death Knight
5820
Posted by Fanahlia
[quote][quote]I don't know why people insist raiding is sooo hard or impossible for casuals/new players/Wrath babies.

Okay... What i want to know is why casual player are always associated with bad players?... Can anyone answer me that?... Because i assure you i could be busting my a$$ every night of the week to raid.. But did you ever realize that that's not some people's idea of fun?????... I can dps... And i only raid 3 nights a week, is that revolutionary or something?


Casual players are always associated with Bads because Bads try to cover up that they are bad by claiming to be casual. They don't have time to learn their classes, join a guild, get the rep rewards, run heroics, or spend '20 hours a week raiding' (Not that anyone I know spends 20 hours a week raiding but that's neither here nor there) because they're 'casual' and have 'real lives' and aren't 'basement dwelling nerds', like those of us who take the time to do these things.

In reality Casual players can (and often are) very good players. Having limited time doesn't mean you can't do any of the stuff I listed and it doesn't mean you can't raid. I'm casual, I raid on Wednesday and Thursday, sometimes on Monday if enough people happen to be around. Being casual doesn't make me bad; being casual (to me) just means that being on the bleeding edge of progression holds no interest to me and I'm content to get 12/12 at my own pace.
86 Pandaren Mage
13895
03/21/2011 12:55 PMPosted by Daxxarri
Even in Wrath of the Lich King, pick up raids didn't start becoming super common until a tier or two of content had already been released. The scenario you mentioned in your original post, of constant pick up raid spam in trade, didn't really occur until a bit later.


Sorry but this is not true.

I started early in Vanilla before BWL came out and I took a break after my guild disbanded during AQ40. I came back at the end of TBC as a casual player. Wrath came out I got to level 80 really fast. I was not in a raiding guild but I started making friends while doing Heroics. About 1-2 weeks into the expansion, there were pug raids doing Sarth 0D and Naxx. Back then, there were no achievements so the raid leader just looked at the gear and invited people. I was the first few mages to get to 80 and I grinded heroics for my gear so I was more than geared for the raids. That is how I started getting back into the raiding game. I made friends with a group of guys who led pug raids. Soon enough, I had enough gear to do well in pug raids/heroics (remember heroics were done with people from the same server only). I was not in a raiding guild just yet. I was just doing pug raids with my 'virtual' friends. And then a guy from a serious raiding guild spotted me in a pug. He talked to me and recruited me. I have been with that raiding guild till today.
The point I am trying to make is, pug heroics and raids are important for a player to be spotted by a guild and be recruited. Pug heroics are pretty much dead with the introduction of LFD. LFD is a great tool but the side effects are too severe at the start of the expansion. Now, pug raids are also dying. I have been in good pugs with my alt but the probability of finding a good pug group is extremely low at the moment and the only reason i get into those groups is because I can link my achievements from my main and I have a lot of BoE epics on my alt.
90 Pandaren Rogue
14030
Yeah after you hit 70 a year after the content was progression. That is the difference here. This is the beginning of the cataclysm raid cycle. No one pugged the raids in BC until the first raid content patch. And that was only on the best servers out there. Most couldn't even get halfway through kara until 2.1 Most weren't pugging until 2 or 3 patches later. Many more are over halfway through this tier of raids.

You'll get your time to faceroll content in PUGs sometime after 4.2 or 4.4



I hit 70 fairly early in bc, if you're going by the achievement date, that is the date they were implemented
Community Manager
Its just so bad that you do not even know your companies own history. When WoW came out it was an EQ clone for casuals. Guess what? It became a huge success. its why I stayed here after EQ, SWG, DAoC and CoH. Casual fun. and Blizzard got more sucessful. Now you really want to be an EQ clone with the difficulty level and timesink playsyle.

Do you really believe history will not repeat itself?


Please rest assured that I know the history quite well. I've been playing World of Warcraft since alpha. I was an avid player of other MMOs before I picked up World of Warcraft.

Have you actually compared what World of Warcraft is currently, to what it was in classic?

Personally, I found the game significantly more challenging then; both because it was tuned to a higher degree of difficulty, and also because the design has improved over time and characters have become much more powerful individually.
Edited by Daxxarri on 3/21/2011 2:13 PM PDT
85 Worgen Rogue
5320
I agree with jumpz. I can understand the frustration some people have with the random heroic issues, but what many do not realize is they are making a choice. When you choose to run a random heroic, you know that it is more difficult, will cost more time and execution, and by pugging the heroic you risk failure. Many of the same people that complain about random heroics also complain about raid difficulty.

No one is putting a timer on content. If it takes you longer or more gear to down the content then that is fine. It isnt a mark of shame if you down a raid tier that is one behind the one that is live. Current content is puggable, often on older severs that have a strong talent base. My server is pugging content as well and we are far down the list in progression. Use 4.1 to help gear up for raids/pug raids and be happy with the increased valor point accessibility. Be warned though, the new heroics will be tough and cause increased frustration for those struggling with current random heroics.

In regards to those that complain about content progression and wanting things easier: This game will become boring to the majority if everything is handed out so easily. The challenge creates frustration and also opens the door for excitement when you down that hard content. I believe blizzard is heading in the right direction. More often then not, the people complaining about content being too hard are attempting it when they are not ready(via skill, gear, strategy, organization, group comp, etc.). No one is forcing you to do any aspect of the game, so do not claim that the game should adhere to you.
97 Human Mage
10920
03/21/2011 1:47 PMPosted by Daxxarri
maybe they should be somewhat designed with pugs in mind


Raiding is the pinnacle of what can be achieved in World of Warcraft; on the PvE side, anyway. With that in mind, we feel that those encounters should be epic, with epic challenges and rewards to match. Cutting edge raiding should present a real challenge and feel rewarding for players who are dedicated to facing down that content on its own terms.

Nonetheless, we fully expect that raid content will become available to a larger population of players as time goes on. Our intent has always been that players will be able to see more and more content with less and less coordination as time goes on. Ghostcrawler’s recent blog on raid progression ([url]http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/2452061#blog[/url]) states that very specifically, and it will result either from the natural proliferation of gear as time goes on, or if that’s not substantial enough, direct adjustments to difficulty. That’s really the underlining intent of our raid progression philosophy in Cataclysm: to strike a better balance between the hardcore raiding of yesteryear and the more accessible raiding of Wrath.

The solution comes down to timing. We want to keep it epic for the high end raiders, but also ensure that content becomes more accessible over time.


Except you're wrong... raiding is no longer the pinnacle of PvE achievement. Heroic raids are. Regular raids are not (and should not) be designed with hard-core players in mind.

Additionally, I don't see why the regular encounters should not be puggable until the next tier raid is released (especially the first few bosses in an instance). By saying "we don't want you to pug until the next tier is released", you're effectively saying "pugs won't get anywhere in the final raid of the expansion". In ICC, pugs regularly cleared the first wing shortly after it was released, and that was NOT a bad thing. It is GOOD that so many people got to experience the final raid instance. I don't understand why Blizz suddenly wants current content unpuggable.
90 Troll Hunter
4525
I agree with jumpz. I can understand the frustration some people have with the random heroic issues, but what many do not realize is they are making a choice. When you choose to run a random heroic, you know that it is more difficult, will cost more time and execution, and by pugging the heroic you risk failure. Many of the same people that complain about random heroics also complain about raid difficulty.

No one is putting a timer on content. If it takes you longer or more gear to down the content then that is fine. It isnt a mark of shame if you down a raid tier that is one behind the one that is live. Current content is puggable, often on older severs that have a strong talent base. My server is pugging content as well and we are far down the list in progression. Use 4.1 to help gear up for raids/pug raids and be happy with the increased valor point accessibility. Be warned though, the new heroics will be tough and cause increased frustration for those struggling with current random heroics.

In regards to those that complain about content progression and wanting things easier: This game will become boring to the majority if everything is handed out so easily. The challenge creates frustration and also opens the door for excitement when you down that hard content. I believe blizzard is heading in the right direction. More often then not, the people complaining about content being too hard are attempting it when they are not ready(via skill, gear, strategy, organization, group comp, etc.). No one is forcing you to do any aspect of the game, so do not claim that the game should adhere to you.


WOW - here's a post that makes sense!! I'm sure QQers will ignore it, but thanks for trying to talk sense on these crazy, whiny forums.
85 Human Paladin
5370
03/21/2011 1:47 PMPosted by Daxxarri
maybe they should be somewhat designed with pugs in mind


Raiding is the pinnacle of what can be achieved in World of Warcraft; on the PvE side, anyway. With that in mind, we feel that those encounters should be epic, with epic challenges and rewards to match. Cutting edge raiding should present a real challenge and feel rewarding for players who are dedicated to facing down that content on its own terms.

Nonetheless, we fully expect that raid content will become available to a larger population of players as time goes on. Our intent has always been that players will be able to see more and more content with less and less coordination as time goes on. Ghostcrawler’s recent blog on raid progression ([url]http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/2452061#blog[/url]) states that very specifically, and it will result either from the natural proliferation of gear as time goes on, or if that’s not substantial enough, direct adjustments to difficulty. That’s really the underlining intent of our raid progression philosophy in Cataclysm: to strike a better balance between the hardcore raiding of yesteryear and the more accessible raiding of Wrath.

The solution comes down to timing. We want to keep it epic for the high end raiders, but also ensure that content becomes more accessible over time.
85 Tauren Druid
7200
Its just so bad that you do not even know your companies own history. When WoW came out it was an EQ clone for casuals. Guess what? It became a huge success. its why I stayed here after EQ, SWG, DAoC and CoH. Casual fun. and Blizzard got more sucessful. Now you really want to be an EQ clone with the difficulty level and timesink playsyle.

Do you really believe history will not repeat itself?


Please rest assured that I know the history quite well. I've been playing World of Warcraft since alpha. I was an avid player of other MMOs before I picked up World of Warcraft.

Have you actually compared what World of Warcraft is currently, to what it was in classic?

Personally, I found the game significantly more challenging then; both because it was tuned to a higher degree of difficulty, and also because the design has improved over time and characters have become much more powerful individually.


Amen my brother/sister Amen
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