OCEANIA a summary

85 Worgen Hunter
4095
Even Singaporean servers would be nice.

Australian ISPs have already shown that they are willing to adjust routing for this kind of thing.
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87 Orc Shaman
13745


@Kolzi: I was actually going to post on your forums asking how you guys delt with stacking Stolen Power on the Nef encounter. I find it so irritating to be handicapped by latency on mechanics like this, I rarely reach 150 stacks due to latency but I watch US based gamers on video and I am just in awe of how fast they can gain this buff.



from what ive seen most americans only rely on frost trap to do the slows

we had a rogue gimp themselves and fan crippling onto everyone as well as the frost trap (frost trap slowed them if crippling was a bit late) crippling overrides frost trap and makes you slower.

after we did that, 150 stacks was pretty easy

gl!
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85 Draenei Shaman
7810
Nobody has brought up the point that if you pay by game cards then Australians actually end up paying 25% more than Americans do.

A 60 day game card costs $30US in North America, but they cost $40AUD in Australia. This actually ended up being about even when the game was released back in 2004 because the Aussie dollar was at about 70 US cents. However the American dollar is worth bugger all now, and the Aussie dollar is now worth more than the American.

So therefore Bli$$ard expects us to pay higher rates for an inferior service. This is fair and balanced how?
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85 Draenei Shaman
7810
Not to mention the extra charges for lowerping or equivalent services that are required to even attempt serious raiding or pvp.

Our guild has hit a wall because we can't seem to overcome the interrupt timing required for heroic Maloriak and Atremedes. Half a second to interrupt before taking raid wiping damage while raiding on 300ms is bloody hard to get right every time.
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85 Draenei Shaman
2320
Nobody has brought up the point that if you pay by game cards then Australians actually end up paying 25% more than Americans do.

A 60 day game card costs $30US in North America, but they cost $40AUD in Australia. This actually ended up being about even when the game was released back in 2004 because the Aussie dollar was at about 70 US cents. However the American dollar is worth bugger all now, and the Aussie dollar is now worth more than the American.

So therefore Bli$$ard expects us to pay higher rates for an inferior service. This is fair and balanced how?


This comes down to the freight charges to get the card / box's over , import tax's and GST. meh
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85 Orc Hunter
3520
wow this is some really good discussion and points being made, i'll ammend my OP's to reflect these soon. Im in a dark place today cos my cho'gall attempts were starting to see final phase for the first time when something happened and suddenly every aussie that i know had 7k ms. In the end we called it but he's going down next week :P

Our service being more expensive than US due to conversion is something i wasnt aware of. Although it kind of makes sense, the gamecards are probrably shipped out here so naturally its going to cost us a little more.

Its good to hear from some more serious raiders than myself that they are hitting roadblocks on H maloriak, H atramedes and Nef. I dont mean its good that its happening but its good that its not just my imagination.

As i suspected when this forum opened up, about every 2nd post on the forums to date have been server location based, ping based or a symptom of server location and subsequent ping.

Theres a pragmatic side of me which accepts that in order for us to get what we want, it has to be good buisness. This means the cost/benefit has to worth it. Some people seem to be saying that blizzard like money and money is evil. But tbh blizzard are not broke, because they employ good buisness practices and if they went broke all the servers would be gone and we would have no wow to play (admittedly thered be some other game).

So lets keep the hate down, lets keep the solutions practical and lets hear something from draxx soon (fingers crossed)
Edited by Grumpsh on 4/4/2011 7:58 PM PDT
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85 Draenei Hunter
0
Spam trade chat:

Unsub and resub; Reason for unsubbing, put in: Lack of local australian servers.

Problem solved within a month.
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85 Goblin Shaman
3430
why has draxxari gone quiet?

Not trolling here but he seemed to be about when this forum was first put up and now, nothing.
Either what we're talking about here is not that important or its a minefield which is best left alone. Interestingly enough 90% of what has gone on here has been about local servers. Which means its either not that important or that its not on blizzards current list of things to do and he doesn't want to telll us that.

This is ok draxx, were not going to be upset by hearing something that we already know. The cost/benefit projection doesn't justify it atm. But we can still talk and dream about it right.

The network optimisation settings in 4.1 tell me that people in blizzardland do care about ping and net speeds as a quality of life issue. And that when feasable steps will be made to improve them. We overcome on a daily basis ping issues which many U.S mainlanders would consider crippling and while we dont try and complain. It sure would be nice if the game we were playing was the same as that which is being offered around the world to everyone else. At the end of the day the experience is different for us, its inferior for us. And if u could give us a hint that people higher than you are aware of our concerns... say what tell us a knock knock joke if its been discussed up the chain since this forum opened :)
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100 Night Elf Druid
16265
I am not even going to try and guess how many Oceanians thier are playing WoW, nor the cost of running servers but would it not be fine with the majority of those players for everyone to pay an extra dollar or two. This way we could get one or two local servers up and running and if succesful hopefully more.

If this could lower ping .. (40 ping would be :O) .. then i would have no problem paying more.

And though this sounds like we have to go out of our way to fix a problem that we didnt create for ourselves, if it can put the Oceanic community higher up or on par with the PVE and PVP world then i would gladly pay more.. im not even pro but 40 ping would just be amazing.

I would also like to point out that if someone made a poll about an extra dollar or two being worth it for local servers, the majority, hell probably 95% would agree.
Edited by Treelos on 4/27/2011 10:55 PM PDT
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12 Orc Shaman
30
04/27/2011 10:52 PMPosted by Treelos
I would also like to point out that if someone made a poll about an extra dollar or two being worth it for local servers, the majority, hell probably 95% would agree.

LOL
I'd gladly pay US$20 per month if I could have a stable 40ms latency.
Actually I already have to pay around that now, $15 for Blizz, the rest goes to tunneling service. I'd rather spend the rest for Blizz if they could make good latency servers in SEA/ANZ zones. Put them in other country if ANZ companies are not that friendly, I don't care.

6 years issue and its getting old.. tooo old.
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85 Blood Elf Mage
13125
03/31/2011 02:08 AMPosted by Nainä
@Kolzi: I was actually going to post on your forums asking how you guys delt with stacking Stolen Power on the Nef encounter. I find it so irritating to be handicapped by latency on mechanics like this, I rarely reach 150 stacks due to latency but I watch US based gamers on video and I am just in awe of how fast they can gain this buff.


I just saw this sorry, and I see you guys have downed nef now, but for those interested, we have one of our rogues put on a white throwing weapon with crippling on it and run around FoKing whenever we get MCs. The rogue loses a solid amount of dps but it's a pretty considerable raid dps gain. Since, y'know, we have this big ole disadvantage compared to american players.


edit: nevermind dok replied like a month ago lol.
Edited by Kolzi on 5/2/2011 8:00 AM PDT
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64 Human Death Knight
1520
Well, one thing Blizz could do this week with little effort for much appreciation.

Please give alternatives to US time when notifying of shutdowns & restarts.
Server time would be the obvious reference but GMT is fine too.
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100 Undead Rogue
10230
Top thread with some great points.
I had no idea that the Game Time cards were 25% more btw, :o I use a credit card and since the conversion rate has turned in our (Aus) favor, It works out pretty good, I end up paying less than the advertised figure anyway...... But I digress...

Firstly, Ruscour...bro... the Aus network infrastructure at present, IS crap! Dont say it isn't because that notion has already been negated by the billions of dollars being poured into the NBN and I know the network because it's my job. CEV's/BTS sites and the local phone exchanges are where all my training took place and i've been a telco technician since '06. Infrastructure is NOT the server, it's all the equipment that is in between the servers, ISP's, DSLAM's and modems. But while we are on the topic a decent server like the HP ProLiant DL380 G7 which would be adequate to run a realm, doesn't even come with a hard disk and costs around $8K (not wow gold either, real mullah) or $470.55/Month to lease. NASA's 'Supercomputer' is a bunch of these or similar all running load balancing and doing their part simultaneously in a chorus of whirring fans, HDD spooling and blinking lights. XD

Comparatively lined up against the rest of the world.... our network is way behind the 8 ball. For example, Africa (Gauteng) will get a response time of around 68 ms to USA, but it takes 250 odd ms ping to do the round trip from Aus! Someone, who is lucky enough to be on cable access can do a speedtest and get around 8-14ms ping to a speedtest server or their ISP. ADSL2+ on the copper pair sharing PSTN will give around 30-90ms, Satellite is at least 500ms round trip (66,000 odd k's of travel) and I've never seen any ping lower than 120ms on 3G HSDPA. All these results are ping's done on an aus based speedtest server.

Secondly, if we stop and have a look at how Australia is actually connected to the rest of the world, you will see where i'm going with this.... :P
To date (AFAIK) there are 6 different Submarine cables that plug Australia up to the rest of the world wide ether. Starting at Sydney There are the 2 'Southern Cross' Cables. One goes to Fiji then Hawaii, the other goes from Syd to NZ to Samoa to Hawaii. Then, the main feed is the 9120km, 1.28Tbps yes that's right, 1.2 Terabits per second! (2 fibre pair) Telstra Endeavor cable that is terminated at Paddington, Syd leaves our shores at Tamarama Beach and runs directly to Keawaula, Hawaii. 90ms (Sydney-Hawaii) From there it's spliced onto the Asia-America Gateway that joins L.A. & Hawaii to Manilla and Hong Kong. 138ms (Sydney-Los Angeles) via Endeavour and Asia American Gateway. Final link from Syd is the Australia-Japan Cable, or AJC which leaves Sydney and gets split at Guam, then goes onto Tokyo. WA have 2 feeds on their side of the map to, 1 at Port Headland linked to Jakarta and 1 at Perth, linked to Singapore.

Finally, now the picture is painted you can see that the network is....somewhat messy, getting to L.A. in under 7 hops on a tracert is a great day for Ausie web users, But.....
We connect to the rest of the world with fibre, yet interconnectivity in Aus is still done over copper cables, Companies are still using ULTE's down here! City might get access to fibre but i've lived in a house where my horse paddock out off the front verandah had a fibre optic cable running through it, right on the fence line not 10 m away, but when i asked telstra to plug me up they told me I had no chance and it was never going to happen and no-one in our entire shire can not get fibre born internet access...yet.

Here is the problem with latency: The speed of radio signals in space is the speed of light, and so the velocity factor of a radio wave in a vacuum is 100%. In electrical cables, the velocity factor mainly depends on the insulating material. Communication media such as Category 5 cables and radio transmission lines, Plenum data cable typically have a VF between 0.42 and 0.72 (42% to 72% of the speed of light) and riser cable around 0.70. This corresponds to a speed of approximately 210,000,000 m/s or 4.76 nano seconds to travel one meter.
Sounds pretty fast but in the bigger picture it's fairly poor, consider the fact that the ADSL signal on phone lines will never actually achieve the speed of light, it's physics. Optic fibre, however, will always do better because IT IS LIGHT and travels as fast as it should.
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100 Undead Rogue
10230
So... As Alphaomega said, you COULD have an Oceanic server in Aus, could be next door or sitting in a quiet corner of Telstra's Data center, but at the end of the day you could still expect 120-150 ms round trip, and to add insult to injury, unless we are all on fibre, USA will prob STILL get less latency or at least equal to us because they have cable all the way to Sydney. The Aus infrastructure will let us down because around 65% of connectivity is carried on the phone lines and the majority of fibre laying 'round the place is backhaul and exchange linking for the mobile phone network & PSTN...

In an effort to help anyone I can, I'd like to recommend a few things I've done to get a 192ms dungeon ping...

1. Adjust your MTU (Max Transmit Units) to 1492 for hard-wired modems running PPPoE
for those on PPPoA you want MTU at 1478. Generally speaking PPoE uses Logic Link Control (LLC/snap bridging) and PPPoA will be set up as a Virtual Circuit (VC/Mux). The MTU setting is found in 2 places, firstly on the modem, second will be the network interface settings on your PC/Laptop. It would prove useless and even detrimental to set only one and not the other, Make sure both the Modem and PC/Laptop Network interface are set to the same MTU

2. Find out exactly what preferred method your ISP uses and adjust your modem accordingly, Some use PPPoA and others use PPPoE. Alternate between the two (Both should work fine and establish connection with ease on any mode, but PPPoA/VC Mux tends to be a slight bit faster...theoretically) XD And see what delivers the best.

3. Download TCP Optimizer and launch. On the main screen, go to the top of the window and adjust the slider to your plans 'Theoretical' top speed. For ADSL2+ its 24,000 kbps. Boost and ADSL1 max is around 8,000 kbps and so on. Next make sure you have selected your correct network card. At this point you will need to go to the bottom of the page and select 'Custom' to enable editing and the on-board network card can have the MTU adjusted to match the Modem. DONT TOUCH ANYTHING ELSE!! :P Things could go bad and if you have heard that the nagling/ TCP Ack Frequency will fix Ping....It wont! All that will happen is the computer sends less packets so the calculation of the ping is offset by this and and you get a false latency value. So don't play around with any 'Advanced Settings'.
In BDP go to the 'Bandwidth' box enter the maximum theoretical Bandwidth of your internet package, then in 'Delay' your maximum expected ping, not from wow but from your ISP. If you dont know what your ping is, an easy way is to just run a speedtest.net on the nearest test server, or better yet, if in Aus just pick on the sydney server and wait for the result.
After you have entered Bandwidth and delay click the 'Calculate' button and the result is your 'receive window' (RWIN). Simply put, this is appropriately adjusting the straw from which your computer drinks the internet thick shake :P
Basically, with this adjustment, we are going from a KFC straw to a Macca's straw XD
Then hit 'Exit' and reboot PC

Hope this helps and if anyone needs some help with any or all of the above, feel free to ask and I'd be more than happy to help :)
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From a PvE perspective I find it unnecessary to implement split-second timings into instances as a form of challenge because it is rather disingenuous imo. It can be done, but sparingly, and most definitely not on crucial encounters. Lag is a factor for almost all WoW players - just a question of how bad it is.

In SC2 it is very hard to micro marines with lag, which is a 100% requirement in high level matchups. Sucks for the arena players, but at least try to mitigate the problem in PvE which forms the bulk of the game. There are many more options for skilltests than "push a button within 1 second or you die".
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85 Human Priest
6405
Spam trade chat:

Unsub and resub; Reason for unsubbing, put in: Lack of local australian servers.

Problem solved within a month.


I actually came back to these forums to say something similar. Everyone should unsubscribe for a week or something similar and if no action is being taken - threaten to do it again. If we can get even half the Oceanic population to unsubscribe for 1 week, Blizzard will lose hundreds of thousands of dollars. Which will hopefully change their minds ^.^
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