Ask the Devs - Answers #2 "PvP"

90 Human Rogue
9555
@Devs:

Thanks for taking the time to do this.
90 Night Elf Druid
8280
03/22/2011 11:02 AMPosted by Bashiok
However, it’s not cool for a spec to be super annoying or frustrating to play against just because they aren’t common


But its okay for a common arena class to be super frustrating to play against right? Like frost mages or rogues?

And maybe this applied to feral, but were moonkins every frustrating to play against? Most people look at moonkins and go: "Free kill"
85 Night Elf Hunter
1635
Q: Is it a possibility that the premade group requirement will be dropped from Rated Battlegrounds, allowing players to queue for a Random Rated Battleground? I'm sure many people would be ok with the inherent risk and disadvantage of grouping with random players for rated content if it meant they could at least make use of the rating system. – Gëtmastiffd (North America/ANZ), Kaymac (North America/ANZ)
A: If you take away the group requirements for Rated Battlegrounds, then you don’t have Rated Battlegrounds – you just have the same old Battlegrounds we’ve always had expect they now reward the best loot in the game. We understand there are heavy logistical requirements to organizing teams – that is in part why the rewards are so good. We believe that if we just opened the doors to random queuing that the system would be less about organized teams competing against organized teams and more about the luck of whether you got a good team or not. You are much more optimistic than we are about how forgiving players would be when Blizzard ignorantly / cruelly stuck them in a team with one Prot paladin and six rogues with no resilience. ? Teams on the other hand have all the responsibility themselves. If they feel comfortable bringing an experienced player with sub-optimal gear, they can make that call. If they think a certain number of healers or particular comp is required, they can try to locate them. Most importantly, there is a leader with some level of power. If you ignore the leader and just do your own thing, the leader can choose to replace you.

This is our first stab at offering very powerful gear through Battlegrounds and it is going to take some tweaking to get right. We understand that some more casual players may have given up on the system and we want a chance to fix that. It’s possible we could require fewer players to form a team, such as merging two groups of 5 together – at least we’d know for sure that you had 2 healers and had put some thought into your comp. We could also put in some kind of browsing system to make it easier to find people looking for Rated Battle Grounds.


I find this answer insulting in a way. You say that battleground and rated battleground would be the same? I don't think so, not even close. First of all people have ratings in rated battlegrounds, and without gear they wouldnt get very far. The people that take it seriously would actually get some great rankings and if you fixed the matchmaking system, would be put up against similar ranks. So just make it so everyone gets put in the same league as their rank and it will be as fair as Arena's are. Don't try to tell me it would be like regular BG's

BG's are already different than RBG's. You cant use certain things that you would be able to use in regular old BG's. You guys didn't try very hard at all to answer this question and thats what insults me.



Exactly how you explained is the way I thought Rated BGs were going to work
when these were originally announced for Cata. I guess its just too much to ask ... lol!
85 Human Death Knight
0
I have to voice that this PvP answer thread is not what I had hoped to hear. I feel Blizzard really missed the mark with rated BGs.

You need two brackets for rated BGs:

    Random
    Team


This would work just like Starcraft.

If you lose, you get nothing. That by itself makes it different than random BGs. The rated system could simply make sure that each group has 2 healers and 8 non healers.

While I am not canceling my subscription, it means I will continue to play Arena 2v2 with casual friends and I will not be trying rated BGs. Very disappointing.
90 Draenei Paladin
11855

Q: The healing abilities of hybrid classes are being severely limited (eg. Retribution Paladin, Shadow Priest). Compared to this why do DPS Classes such as Rogue, Warlock have strong healing capabilities? Can I get some explanations for this? – ????? (Korea)
    A: Our definition of hybrid is a class that can respec to tank or heal. That versatility is much less relevant in PvP than in PvE. So it isn’t all our intention that classes who have a healing talent tree are good healers at all times and more than you might expect Restoration or Balance druids to be tanky just because they have a tank spec.

    We don’t specify a set amount of self-healing and try to adjust everyone to hit those targets. Instead we balance specs around their entire package. If rogues die a lot, then we can explore the option of increasing their mitigation, giving them stronger survival cooldowns, or increasing their self-healing. We found that rogues were one of the most painful classes to level, so when we revamped them for Cataclysm, we wanted to make sure they didn’t have to stop and eat or bandage every few pulls. Warlocks self healing did get nerfed, but also remember that their resource mechanic is burning health to generate mana, so they need a way to replenish that health.

    Finally, hybrids can absolutely swing the outcome of battles with their self or off-healing. Feral druids can stop, shift, and heal themselves up. It happens all the time (though obviously not while being focused). That doesn’t mean that those specs are supposed to be chain healing the whole time (that’s what actual healers do).




Yikes, nonsense.

You bring up druids healing as though druids aren't sitting pretty in the arenas?

Shadow priests do terrible healing. Rogues, Warlocks, Warriors and Tanks all outheal a freaking PRIEST.

You can try and validate that with nonsense, but you basically went in a huge loop from shadow being sufficient AS A FLAVOR OF HEALING in vanilla, to losing basically any sort of group healing. It's very interesting that you're basically admitting that the concept of a hybrid is BS and should have no effect on arenas as it's really irrelevant since in arenas all classes do a little bit of everything. There are people who would lock into "shadow priest" if they could, but you don't allow them and then claim since they CAN respec even if they wILL NEVER respec, they are treated differently. "or else everyone would play hybrids."

No they wouldn't, because there is this thing called flavor.

Yes, shadow should blow ridiculous amounts of mana changing a form to do a very, very weak an inefficient heal while opening up vulnerability during that out-of-shadow time?

Meanwhile 2v2 is a stalemate joke (let us know what the numbers are on 45 minute draws and/or people leaving grueling stalemates) because DPS suddenly outheal hybrids.

I'm glad there is a disparity amongst hybrids now, it only proves you totally mistreat the concept and shadow priests essentially get the shaft with their gimmick 3 CCs for wins, and terrible DPS. Wow suddenly shadow is viable after they have 3 instant CCs? Who'd have thought that.


In 3s "the new focus" the healing is pointless when around 2 dps, so who knows why it was thought of a good idea as 2s become trashed by unkillable blood DKs (hey cool watch them solo all the old content) and dps that outheal other dps and hybrid healers.

let's ignore that warriors are OP in arenas but they are technically hybrids since they can tank. paladins have never been bad in arenas as holy. shaman healing is doing great.


shadow still gets dumped on as a companion to overkill CC. SNORE... yet you think the highest representative classes need more healing in arenas?

spoiler: marksman is terrible in arenas because you refuse to fix basic game mechanics of "how things get resisted" and their self healing is garbage on top of a dead zone that is unique to them.

I tried it the other day and i was able to shoot an arrow into a wall a few inches away from me. But someone's face, APPARENTLY IMPOSSIBLE TO SHOOT FROM TOO CLOSE.


I will say, handing everyone all the arena gear over time was one step closer to the real answer (giving everyone all the gear up front and competing that way for real, gated, rewards).

Somehow you still think that having viability be the reward is a good idea. At least the faceroll 5 wins a week for epics is a baby step away from that terrible concept.

Take a hint from the tournament server: that's how arenas should work, minus PVE nonsense mixed in.
Edited by Nannie on 3/22/2011 1:51 PM PDT
85 Night Elf Druid
1850
Posted by Bashiok
However, it’s not cool for a spec to be super annoying or frustrating to play against


you mean like frost mages
Blizzard Employee
It's disappointing to hear of class changes being made--or not made--based on the performance of only the highest-rated players. (Mages are fine because the most highly-skilled opponents can stand toe-to-toe with them; Hunters don't need fixed because the very best hunters are difficult to deal with [as stated in previous Q&A].) Leet players only enjoy some semblance of balance while the rabble re-roll whatever is OP at the casual play level or try to get by with a gimp class.


It's disheartening to see specific pieces of sentences picked out and applied to the entire sentiment. But not surprising.
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