Calling druid tanks bad?

85 Tauren Druid
4365
I've been reading around the forums and players have been calling druid tanks bad. Just wondering what it is that makes druid tanks bad. I'm no saying that I am good because honestly I am in half pvp gear since I just switched back to tanking. But druid tanks in general have been called bad. Why is that?
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90 Worgen Druid
12790
For 1 reason:

We're weakest at AoE tanking.

Apparently it's some kind of big deal.
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100 Tauren Druid
14805
Ressi nailed the biggest reason. Most of what is holding druids back or making them look bad is tied to AOE tanking. Not everyone cares about aoe tanking though. As you may also have gathered from the last post :P

Low level bears in particular have been boned on the skills front and AOE tanking esp for the last 4-5 months.

On live @ 85 Bear AOE threat is the lowest. Bear AOE mitigation is also the lowest. Bear block is very poor vs lots of small attack, IE aoe tanking. It is very nice verse raid bosses though.

AOE tanking is a staple of 5 mans. Most people exposure to bear tanks is either by trying to tank a 5 man with one, or having a bear tank their 5 man for them.

There are a heap of other issue that play into it, like if a bear is not getting hit they don't get rage so they can't "do stuff" like generate threat. That means if DPS pull off a bear at the start of a pull it can be difficult to recover. They can't generate rage easily like warriors or front load a big chunk of AOE threat like a warrior's shockwave can.


It's not all bad tho, Bears can tank 5 mans, you just have to work a little harder.

Make sure you mark a burn target for your dps and ask your DPS to burn it before AOEing
If there is a really big pull you can root one of the melee.
You can save rage from one pull to use on the next (try to finish on high rage and don't shift)

In 4.1 It looks like our AOE threat may be improved a lot. AOE mitigation looks unchanged.
Edited by Stormclaw on 3/24/2011 8:39 PM PDT
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81 Gnome Death Knight
10100
I've been playing around with my bear lately.

AoE threat isn't bad. It's not good either. It's okay. If you get a nice, good pug (or guild group) that will actually focus fire on a skull and x it's not bad at all. If you get a drooling on the keyboard pug it can be annoying to frustrating. Then again, the latter pugs get annoying on any tank.

Edit: The times I get nice rage management and utilize maul (glyphed) to it's fullest I find I have far more AoE threat than not. It really takes practice, something that will take me a while since she's just a side project with a slightly higher priority than me.
Edited by Kahzregi on 3/24/2011 8:57 PM PDT
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100 Night Elf Druid
11160
AoE threat isn't bad. It's not good either. It's okay. If you get a nice, good pug (or guild group) that will actually focus fire on a skull and x it's not bad at all. If you get a drooling on the keyboard pug it can be annoying to frustrating. Then again, the latter pugs get annoying on any tank.


For many DPS specs, focusing on a single target is a DPS loss for various reasons. If one tank requires them to FF and others don't, it's no different from being threatcapped. Good DPS will hold back, of course, but they'll be fully justified in hating the tank's class for having to do so.
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85 Blood Elf Priest
1550
Reason:

My Paladin by L35 had Hammer of The Righteous AND Holy Wrath. With these two moves, I hold threat and nothing pulls off me. Nothing.

My Druid at the same level had _________ for aoe tanking. That's right. NOTHING. Swipe is crap in threat generation and you get it WAAAAYYY too late. I mean hell, Consecration was at 24. Bear tanks have extremely low threat gen in terms of aoe tanking. A warrior gets Thunderclap at what, 8? Why the hell can't a bear tank have a move that holds more than 1 mob at a time at the same level?

At endgame it lessens up on the suck a bit, but for about 81 levels of the game, you will have everyone, including your healer, pulling off you on almost every pull, and you'll have to work extremely hard to maintain what threat you do have. IMO, if you don't wanna care about threat, roll a durpadin. Extreme ease on aoe tanking.
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90 Human Paladin
17775
For many DPS specs, focusing on a single target is a DPS loss for various reasons. If one tank requires them to FF and others don't, it's no different from being threatcapped. Good DPS will hold back, of course, but they'll be fully justified in hating the tank's class for having to do so.


Huh?

There are also many many many DPS specs who compeltely and utterly benefit the most from Focus Firing or DoT'ing/"Cleaving" 2-3 mobs right now because their AoE sucks.

For lower levels, some specs don't even get their AoE button till 75-80+, and even then it's terrible.
Edited by Darielle on 3/26/2011 9:08 AM PDT
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100 Troll Warrior
19435
03/26/2011 8:58 AMPosted by Darielle
For many DPS specs, focusing on a single target is a DPS loss for various reasons. If one tank requires them to FF and others don't, it's no different from being threatcapped. Good DPS will hold back, of course, but they'll be fully justified in hating the tank's class for having to do so.


Huh?

There are also many DPS specs who compeltely and utterly benefit the most from Focus Firing or DoT'ing/"Cleaving" 2-3 mobs right now because their AoE sucks.

For lower levels, some specs don't even get their AoE button till 75-80+, and even then it's terrible.

Yeah, pretty much. My MM Hunter, Combat Rogue, Destruction Warlock, and Elemental Shaman all do pretty mediocre pure AoE at best. They all do equivalent or significantly better with single target or cleave.
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90 Human Warrior
13005
It's also worth noting that bears have the worst survivability against multiple mobs by a significant margin, since Savage Defense doesn't scale up based on how often you're getting attacked, unlike the other tank masteries (Blood Shield has an indirect scaling since it's based on how much damage you take).

This is relevant for things like offtanking Maloriak or (I would assume) tanking Nefarian's adds.
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85 Goblin Warrior
1330
For 1 reason:

We're weakest at AoE tanking.

Apparently it's some kind of big deal.



Says the player who raid tanks only. News Flash, most tanks arent raid tanks, FYI. I know its hard to imagine but not everyone in this game sits around slaying pve dragons 4-5 nights a week and some people enjoy the more casual content. Too bad people like you turn their noses up at people who are casual, thus holding the druid class back.

you, arielle and fasc (good riddance) are the biggest distraction to getting druids fixed and working properly. Try to say otherwise but you keeping druid bugs secret a long with your realy bad attitude towards anyone who is not a t-11 raid tank or anoyone who questions the terrible state of druid aoe tanking/mitigation pretty much says it all.


Its realy sad that the devs put so much confidence into your opinions and views of the druid class.
Edited by Hempsy on 3/26/2011 11:19 AM PDT
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90 Worgen Druid
12790
03/26/2011 11:14 AMPosted by Hempsy
Its realy sad that the devs put so much confidence into your opinions and views of the druid class.

Maybe it's because we're rational human beings that have the ability to view things objectively.



P.S. You mad?


Edited for redundancy.
Edited by Reesi on 3/26/2011 11:24 AM PDT
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85 Blood Elf Death Knight
5940
For 1 reason:

We're weakest at AoE tanking.

Apparently it's some kind of big deal.


I mean, it is kind of a big deal, as much as anything in an online game is a big deal. There are fights where both tanks need to AoE tank (Conclave), fights where it's not immediately clear at the outset who will need to AoE tank (Halfus, for certain 10 man strategies), and fights where the other tank might have a significant advantage tanking the boss, but has to tank adds because otherwise the druid will be tanking the adds. Sure, it's not likely to make a huge difference, but being noticeably weaker at a fairly common role than everyone else is at least an issue worth mentioning.
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90 Worgen Druid
12790
For 1 reason:

We're weakest at AoE tanking.

Apparently it's some kind of big deal.


I mean, it is kind of a big deal, as much as anything in an online game is a big deal. There are fights where both tanks need to AoE tank (Conclave), fights where it's not immediately clear at the outset who will need to AoE tank (Halfus, for certain 10 man strategies), and fights where the other tank might have a significant advantage tanking the boss, but has to tank adds because otherwise the druid will be tanking the adds. Sure, it's not likely to make a huge difference, but being noticeably weaker at a fairly common role than everyone else is at least an issue worth mentioning.

I know we're weakest in AoE, and despite my own trolls, I would never deny that. But it is being ridiculously blown out of proportion.
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85 Tauren Warrior
8120
I don't think I've ever seen anyone say bears don't need better AoE. Or a mastery that isn't crap for AoE. Or that leveling bears isn't painful.

The ability to recognize deficiencies != bemoaning that bears are untenable as tanks and unless they get buffed the spec is dead.

Also remember in wrath when you'd be insane to stick the Warrior on the boss and everyone else was like 'well you can do Adds it's ok you still have a roll'? Welcome to the other side of the coin I guess. You're still better off than we were.
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43 Troll Mage
0
bears are statistically equal to the other tanks on raid bosses and that's all that matters to Blizzard and this forum

never mind that they're zero fun to play. they are literally just boring, gimped versions of prot warriors in every way
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80 Blood Elf Paladin
11595


I mean, it is kind of a big deal, as much as anything in an online game is a big deal. There are fights where both tanks need to AoE tank (Conclave), fights where it's not immediately clear at the outset who will need to AoE tank (Halfus, for certain 10 man strategies), and fights where the other tank might have a significant advantage tanking the boss, but has to tank adds because otherwise the druid will be tanking the adds. Sure, it's not likely to make a huge difference, but being noticeably weaker at a fairly common role than everyone else is at least an issue worth mentioning.

I know we're weakest in AoE, and despite my own trolls, I would never deny that. But it is being ridiculously blown out of proportion.


Not to derail the thread, but didn't your hair used to be dark blue? It's really throwing me off.
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85 Tauren Druid
4720
If the devs are hell bent on not changing SD, fine.

Can we get a glyph that can spread infected wounds off of our primary target to all others with swipe or thrash?

It would be our version of thunderclap...

That would increase our threat generation and well as a be a slight increase in our dmg mitigation.

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90 Night Elf Druid
CFT
10670
03/26/2011 4:15 PMPosted by Hedora
That would increase our threat generation

How?
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85 Tauren Druid
4720
03/26/2011 4:34 PMPosted by Arielle
That would increase our threat generation

How?


Cuz we would place the infected wounds debuff on multiple targets instead of the two that maul (and mangle) are hitting. Wouldn't be a huge buff in threat but would be some.

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