Calling druid tanks bad?

85 Night Elf Druid
8135

Lol you're joking right?

SB is on the OP side as it is for moonkins. You want to give it to resto, AND give it to feral cats/bears and allow them to use it w/o breaking form?

You're high.


This was the exact same argument used against giving Rebuke to Holy/Prot.
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85 Night Elf Warrior
10285
03/30/2011 12:13 PMPosted by Arielle
I fully intend on testing this tonight on the PTR.


If It blocks magic I am going to laugh very very hard. With a tinge of hysteria.

03/30/2011 12:19 PMPosted by Kalisti
This was the exact same argument used against giving Rebuke to Holy/Prot.


I dont generally give weight to the arguments of morons (not you; them). There's a huge gulf of difference between a melee interrupt and a ranged ae spotlight of silence.
Edited by Charsi on 3/30/2011 12:21 PM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
17775
This was the exact same argument used against giving Rebuke to Holy/Prot.


It was only particularly used for Holy, and even then you had people counterarguing that Holy would actually have to be in melee range to be able to use it.

Solar Beam is a different can of worms for obvious reasons.
Edited by Darielle on 3/30/2011 12:21 PM PDT
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85 Tauren Druid
8960
03/30/2011 12:08 PMPosted by Kalisti
The solution, incidentally, is the exact same as the Paladin one. Make Solar Beam trainable and usable in all forms. It will likely break PvP to the exact same degree.

I lazer you with my roar!
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100 Human Paladin
18040

Lol you're joking right?

SB is on the OP side as it is for moonkins. You want to give it to resto, AND give it to feral cats/bears and allow them to use it w/o breaking form?

You're high.


This was the exact same argument used against giving Rebuke to Holy/Prot.


Solar beam combined with roots and druid mobility (especially resto with HoTs/cyclone/nature's grasp) is far more potent than a melee-range interrupt for Holy.

As for prot, I don't see how giving a melee-range interrupt to arguably the least mobile spec in the game (no gap closer at all, doesn't have Acts of Sacrifice like ret to remove movement impairments, you literally have to run to your target) is comparable either. Prot is essentially a dead PvP spec once the WoG nerf goes through, too.
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85 Night Elf Druid
8135
I dont generally give weight to the arguments of morons (not you; them). There's a huge gulf of difference between a melee interrupt and a ranged ae spotlight of silence.


Sure, but there's also a lot more you can customize with Solar Beam. The baseline version doesn't need to be as powerful as the existing Boomkin version.

03/30/2011 12:13 PMPosted by Arielle
I fully intend on testing this tonight on the PTR.


Looks physical only. And the tooltip now says "Absorbs X Physical damage." which is a nice improvement.
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47 Tauren Paladin
0


This was the exact same argument used against giving Rebuke to Holy/Prot.


There is a vast difference in giving a class an interrupt that requires melee range and works on only a single target (when at least the healer spec doesnt already have an interrupt) AND requires you HIT the spell to actually interrupt it, vs giving a class an AoE silence that works on everyone in its range, interrupts everyone who is casting, silences everyone REGARDLESS of if theyre casting, while the class already has an interrupt (and at least for ferals its on a short CD).

No, giving you solar beam is NOT the solution to the problem.
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96 Human Paladin
5285
03/30/2011 12:19 PMPosted by Kalisti
This was the exact same argument used against giving Rebuke to Holy/Prot.


It absolutely wasn't. Rebuke going baseline was pretty much unnoticed and the few that complained were ignored and told to stop complaining about nothing.
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85 Night Elf Druid
8135
03/30/2011 12:35 PMPosted by Fridays
t absolutely wasn't. Rebuke going baseline was pretty much unnoticed and the few that complained were ignored and told to stop complaining about nothing.


Precisely. Sure, this would be a bit bigger than the Rebuke change (though people are exaggerating by how much — Solar Beam has weaknesses too, such as being on the GCD). Perhaps this will have two, three, or maybe even four times the PvP impact as the Rebuke change.

Which still wouldn't be very much.
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85 Night Elf Warrior
10285
The baseline could say "non-player enemy targets" for the silence, and the 1 point Boomkin talent could change that to include players.

Or something.
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96 Human Paladin
5285
Precisely. Sure, this would be a bit bigger than the Rebuke change (though people are exaggerating by how much — Solar Beam has weaknesses too, such as being on the GCD). Perhaps this will have two, three, or maybe even four times the PvP impact as the Rebuke change.

Which still wouldn't be very much.


It would be going to a healer/melee that has a root. It would be very noticeable. It would also be going to a class that has a spammable cc on a unique dr table.

These are kinda apples and oranges, sorry. Solarbeam actually was available for a short time to restos during cata beta and it was quickly (and I mean quickly) taken away from them.
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85 Blood Elf Death Knight
5940
Which fight does the lack of a ranged interrupt render undoable for bears, exactly? I do use Strangulate from time to time during raids, but it's a convenience, not a necessity.
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47 Tauren Paladin
0
There is still a large gap between a melee range single target interrupt and a long range aoe interrupt. You'd be giving cats two interrupts, one can be used from range, when they dont need it. And you'd be giving trees rebuke on crack.

To say nothing of the fact that even if you go with charsi's notion of making the silence only work on NPCs thats still utility that cats/trees dont need.


You want to give bears a ranged silence? Fine. Give BEARS a ranged silence. "Threatening Gaze" or something, 20 rage cost and a 2m CD. There, done. SB does not need to be baseline.
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85 Night Elf Warrior
10285
I said nothing about making it castable in bear/cat form.
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96 Human Paladin
5285
To say nothing of the fact that even if you go with charsi's notion of making the silence only work on NPCs thats still utility that cats/trees dont need.


03/30/2011 1:01 PMPosted by Charsi
I said nothing about making it castable in bear/cat form.


The baseline could say "non-player enemy targets" for the silence, and the 1 point Boomkin talent could change that to include players.


No real reason for those quotes apart from obnoxious boredom.
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47 Tauren Paladin
0
03/30/2011 1:01 PMPosted by Charsi
I said nothing about making it castable in bear/cat form.


Uh, doesnt that defeat the purpose of trying to give BEARS a ranged interrupt/silence?

Also, the person I was replying to initially stated their intent of making SB usable in all forms, so I was assuming you went with that same thought process. My apologies if you had something else in mind... although again, how does that solve the problem of bears wanting a ranged silence/interrupt if they cant use it in bear form?


Oh and Friday, http://www.wowhead.com/spell=78675 you should read tooltips, it interrupts also. I can only assume that your point of quoting and underlining those points was an attempt to say "it wouldnt give cats/trees utility if it didnt silence," but yes it would because it would still interrupt.

At least that is my best guess as to what you were trying to get across.
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96 Human Paladin
5285
Oh and Friday, http://www.wowhead.com/spell=78675 you should read tooltips, it interrupts also. I can only assume that your point of quoting and underlining those points was an attempt to say "it wouldnt give cats/trees utility if it didnt silence," but yes it would because it would still interrupt.

At least that is my best guess as to what you were trying to get across.


I know what it does.

I was saying that you mentioned charsi's NPC only req, not a form req.
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47 Tauren Paladin
0


I know what it does.

I was saying that you mentioned charsi's NPC only req, not a form req.

Oh, eh yeah I suppose. My bad. Though honestly I did intend to imply it was usable while still in cat form, but again that was based solely on the person I was originally replying to.

But yeah I guess, if you look at it that way it is true, it does still give them utility they dont need even if it isnt usable as a cat
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90 Night Elf Druid
CFT
10670
03/30/2011 12:58 PMPosted by Anothriel
Which fight does the lack of a ranged interrupt render undoable for bears, exactly? I do use Strangulate from time to time during raids, but it's a convenience, not a necessity.

There isn't one.

The topic is getting tiresome.
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85 Night Elf Druid
8135
Which fight does the lack of a ranged interrupt render undoable for bears, exactly? I do use Strangulate from time to time during raids, but it's a convenience, not a necessity.


If that were the standard for improvements, you wouldn't see 95% plus of the improvements which are made.

There is not a single fight, for example, which is undoable by a Warrior on live because SB does not reduce magic damage. That doesn't mean that Warriors were wrong to press for it, or that it isn't a good change.
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