Calling druid tanks bad?

55 Draenei Death Knight
0
Again, I'm not saying that Savage Defense should be as good as block - at least, not unless they're going to nerf druid advantages elsewhere. And maybe the right thing to do here is just to wait and see - with higher armor and dodge, druids take less damage per hit and take damage less frequently, which may make the upper threshold somewhat higher than it intuitively appears to me.

But the changes don't appear to address what I see as the major problem with Savage Defense in add situations, so I'm still skeptical.


Ahti, your general understanding of the problem(s) with SD is impressive. I've read several of your comments and think you hit the nail on the head. Yes SD shouldn't be as good, or better than Block, but what Blizzard is changing doesn't seem to be solving much of anything, either. It offers slightly more damage reduction in *most* add situations in current content, but it isn't the crazy buff people seem to make it out to be.

Although, I am hopeful that this makes it so SD remains up during some client/server latency problems that makes it so you gain SD and it immediately falls and you end up taking the full brunt of the attack (Reesi pointed this out in another thread). I've gone through my own logs and seen this plenty of times too, so at the very least it might address this.

So Ahti, you sure you aren't really a bear disguised as a warrior?
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85 Tauren Druid
12725
Yeah, I've been looking at our 10m H maloriak kill last night (yay finally, I hate being a bear on that fight). The adds hit so hard that in most cases even this new shield would have been used up immediately.

SD is hard to quantify at the moment due to the way it is treated in the logs, but it ranges from 7k (at self buffs) to 20k (raid buffed with vengeance) for me. In situations like H Maloriak adds the new shield is almost no improvement, we get more benefit out of the extra swipe (for SD proc) than the absorb mechanic.

As long as the SD is a buff on the bear it's not going to scale up with mobs in a way that doesn't fall over as soon as we get "too many". In this case too many is a function of how hard they hit, the harder they hit the quicker we reach the "too many" mark.

I we were to change the SD buff to a debuff on the mob I think bears would scale up much better. when we have 1 target we get a better up time on SD verse attacks as all our GCD, white damage and off the GCD attacks are on 1 target. When we get 3 targets we can still get almost the same SD chances on all the mobs, and same again if it scales up to 6 or 10. We would have more wasted SDs when a mob has an SD proc but we dodge it. The scaling with groups would be much better though.


And Urthwyte I totally agree Ahti has some great posts.

I'm very happy bears are getting some attention in the AOE mitigation department but I'm also not sure this change goes far enough yet. It will be great in 5 mans, but still has the same problems as old SD once the aoe tanked mobs can hit for a decent amount.
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90 Human Paladin
17765
SD is hard to quantify at the moment due to the way it is treated in the logs, but it ranges from 7k (at self buffs) to 20k (raid buffed with vengeance) for me. In situations like H Maloriak adds the new shield is almost no improvement, we get more benefit out of the extra swipe (for SD proc) than the absorb mechanic.


The damage variation is going to vary if you have 3 Abberations released going into Black phase too, bear in mind :P
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90 Night Elf Druid
17580
Buff leader of the pack to 8% so that we start getting somewhere. My reasoning? Self heal is crappy, lifebloom pvp nerf, and I shouldn't self-heal for half of a rogue's recup.
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85 Night Elf Druid
4090
bears are statistically equal to the other tanks on raid bosses and that's all that matters to Blizzard and this forum

never mind that they're zero fun to play. they are literally just boring, gimped versions of prot warriors in every way


I agree with this. I would love to keep raiding as a bear, but it really is not that fun. No cool animations, can't see gear, no individuality. I feel exactly the same in every expac, every raid tier, and every dungeon. Sure I can get the job done, but why be bored while paying to play a video game?
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90 Night Elf Druid
CFT
10670
04/02/2011 06:55 AMPosted by Nightsbane
Buff leader of the pack to 8% so that we start getting somewhere. My reasoning? Self heal is crappy, lifebloom pvp nerf, and I shouldn't self-heal for half of a rogue's recup.

This is not the DPS forum?
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90 Night Elf Druid
17755
Don't necro.
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85 Tauren Druid
12725
Um Slash did you mean to post in a 4 month old topic and say "Don't necro?"


While the topic is up though, how do bears feel about AOE mitigation changes now that 4.1 has been live for a while. (SD became an true absorb shield instead of a single use damage reduction to the next melee hit)

From my experiance it is very strong in 5 man tanking, ok in normal 10 man raids and very little change in H raids were the mobs tend to hit so hard that they take the whole shield in 1 hit anyway.
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85 Human Paladin
4185
I remember this.
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90 Human Warrior
13005
06/18/2011 02:17 AMPosted by Stormclaw
Um Slash did you mean to post in a 4 month old topic and say "Don't necro?"

Look at the post numbers. #390 is missing, so presumably someone posted in between and their post was deleted.
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85 Tauren Druid
12725
Ah that makes sense, I thought that is someone deleted there post it lest a blank bar in it's place that said it was deleted.

Maybe that dosen't hold if a mod deletes it?
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85 Orc Warlock
12800
Ah that makes sense, I thought that is someone deleted there post it lest a blank bar in it's place that said it was deleted.

Maybe that dosen't hold if a mod deletes it?

It doesn't if it's deleted really, really quickly.
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85 Goblin Warrior
7180
It's a little messed up that warriors can get thunderclap at level 8 and 2/2 blood and thunder at level 12.

It makes them just unbelievably good at multi-mob solo grinding and aoe tanking at low levels. Of course when I leveled my warrior, it was the hardest class to level in the game lol (mid-burning crusade) and prot was purely for masochistic levelers haha... once you got devastate it got a little better tho.
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86 Troll Druid
10850
It's a little messed up that warriors can get thunderclap at level 8 and 2/2 blood and thunder at level 12.

It makes them just unbelievably good at multi-mob solo grinding and aoe tanking at low levels. Of course when I leveled my warrior, it was the hardest class to level in the game lol (mid-burning crusade) and prot was purely for masochistic levelers haha... once you got devastate it got a little better tho.


I remember leveling my warrior back in classic, before blood and thunder and even victory rush. You self-healing was either pots or bandages and warriors were some highly gear-dependent it became really obvious if your gear was bad or not because mobs would kill you pretty easily.
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85 Orc Warlock
12800
06/18/2011 09:04 AMPosted by Mosockra
I remember leveling my warrior back in classic, before blood and thunder and even victory rush. You self-healing was either pots or bandages and warriors were some highly gear-dependent it became really obvious if your gear was bad or not because mobs would kill you pretty easily.

I remember dying to orange mobs without taking them below 70% because f***ing nothing landed.
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90 Draenei Warrior
8860
It's a little messed up that warriors can get thunderclap at level 8 and 2/2 blood and thunder at level 12.

It makes them just unbelievably good at multi-mob solo grinding and aoe tanking at low levels. Of course when I leveled my warrior, it was the hardest class to level in the game lol (mid-burning crusade) and prot was purely for masochistic levelers haha... once you got devastate it got a little better tho.
Druid is the new warrior.
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