Calling druid tanks bad?

80 Blood Elf Paladin
11595
03/26/2011 10:25 PMPosted by Reesi
Not to derail the thread, but didn't your hair used to be dark blue? It's really throwing me off.

It was the purple color, yes. People kept confusing Arielle and my avatars, so I changed colors. :P


But, but you had the robot shoulders and Arielle didn't. *headasplode*
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85 Tauren Druid
4720
...taking time to spend time with the kids and be their play toy.

Go ahead and rip apart everything I say to make yourself feel awesome. Good for you, you know the game and you made it very apparent that I don't.

I do take time to play with kids, they're called DPS. :-P

Seriously, you're in an online, virtual discussion forum talking about an imaginary place where giant creatures with cloven hooves and minotaur-like features can turn into bears, cats, birds, walking owls and even trees.

Just chill, step back and/or drop it. Not worth the apparent stress you're causing yourself at being corrected when you were in error.


/agreed

Felt the initial insult wasn't warranted so I got heated. Most of which I wouldn't say otherwise. Unnecessary jabs on my part.

I'd further try to rationalize with cow, but no use.
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90 Worgen Druid
12790
A thread just isn't complete without Tewa to emo it up.

It warms the heart, it does.
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85 Troll Druid
5410
Hedora, you think you were insulted by someone saying that debuffs don't cause threat indirectly, though in this forum. You are expected to have some experience if you're going to suggest something, and/or have read stickies and are knowledgeable about the ins and outs of the game world. Next time you chime in on something, make sure you understand the concepts behind it. Do not assume you know something in here. If you don't know, ask. If you asked a question to begin with, someone would have answered you.

As far as AOE tanking, I was in a random yesterday with a t11 Fire mage just pyroblasting and igniting his face off. I held aggro just fine. I just let the dps tank the skull which was dead in two seconds anyway with fire mage + 2 other dps on it.

That said, my Tankadin did hit 85 yesterday, looking forward to the different playstyle of 3/x/3/x/3/ShieldofRighteousness-ness.

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85 Night Elf Druid
1950
.. What the hell are you people talking about? My AoE threat generation is fine. Wait two GCD's for Thrash/Swipe and fire away. If someone pulls off a mob, Growl. If someone unloads before T/S or for some reason the group needs to die immediately, AoE taunt. If you want to be overkill, use Berserk.

What, are you running dungeons with a Rogue putting Tricks on the Fire Mage?
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90 Night Elf Druid
5980
03/26/2011 8:58 AMPosted by Darielle
There are also many many many DPS specs who compeltely and utterly benefit the most from Focus Firing or DoT'ing/"Cleaving" 2-3 mobs right now because their AoE sucks.


At low levels, bears have _____ for holding threat on 3 mobs. Please fill in the blank with an ability that bears get before level 36. Or, for after 36, one that is actually fully functional at 36 and is not on a 6 second cooldown and isn't really all there until 81 puts in the other half of it. And no, not the 3-minute cooldown you get sometimes in the 50s.
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90 Troll Druid
8840


I mean, it is kind of a big deal, as much as anything in an online game is a big deal. There are fights where both tanks need to AoE tank (Conclave), fights where it's not immediately clear at the outset who will need to AoE tank (Halfus, for certain 10 man strategies), and fights where the other tank might have a significant advantage tanking the boss, but has to tank adds because otherwise the druid will be tanking the adds. Sure, it's not likely to make a huge difference, but being noticeably weaker at a fairly common role than everyone else is at least an issue worth mentioning.

I know we're weakest in AoE, and despite my own trolls, I would never deny that. But it is being ridiculously blown out of proportion.


Reesi, I'm really not sure that it is.

I think the poster that responded to you earlier, although not very good at articulating, has somewhat of a point.

5-man heroics are a big part of the game, and it's gotten to the point where my threat is so bad in these places that I don't even enjoy tanking in them any more. On pure AoE packs I can't keep aggro off of people.
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90 Night Elf Druid
0
Bears are fine.

There is just a seemingly endless supply of people who won't be happy until all tanks have been homogenized to the point where there are no longer any unique differences in abilities, utility, and play style.
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85 Tauren Druid
8960
Because when you get hit 20% less frequently...
your fur starts to shine
and you just own the night like the fourth of july...

CAUSE BABY YOURE A F

Thanks, I needed that. It's count Monday at the end of the quarter here. Now that all my work is done and accounted for, I think I'm gonna start the new quarter by leaving early. I wonder what movies are playing?

03/26/2011 9:42 PMPosted by Decepticow
Tell me what part of that increases our threat generation...

If they were going to change it anyways, it'd be a pretty simple fix to add some threat.


Back on topic: Yea, AOE content is a part of the game, and 5mans are important to some. If done right, bears have no issues in 5man content - but the urge to wrath-zerg pulls is always there. This is especially true with the 15% buff or with a solid healer.

Speaking as somebody who plays a death knight now, the grass is greener sometimes. We get amazing aoe threat if we have a few death runes prepared in advance. If some idiot pulls another group you aren't prepared for and you don't have a few runes on cooldown (or use Empower Rune Weapon), it gets rough. Druids are lower AOE threat, but much more dependable. This is from personal experience, but the numbers show similar results.

I don't know much of the current state of warriors/paladins, so I won't comment on them.
Edited by Bovie on 3/28/2011 9:00 AM PDT
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85 Blood Elf Priest
2535
Because i have to press fade harder.

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85 Tauren Druid
8960
03/28/2011 9:07 AMPosted by Hoylshadow
Because i have to press fade harder.

My wife always argues with me about it. Pushing the button harder really does help though. Sometimes, you have to smash the key with your fist for emphasis.
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90 Night Elf Druid
CFT
10670
03/27/2011 6:29 AMPosted by Tewa
1. Lower AoE threat.

Irrelevant in 4.1, since our AoE threat gen is going up by ~40% on average.

03/27/2011 6:29 AMPosted by Tewa
2. Take more damage while AoE tanking.

This is true. However not sure exactly how much more, or whether it's in an acceptable variance. Blizzard seems to indicate the latter, anecdotal evidence seems to indicate the former.

03/27/2011 6:29 AMPosted by Tewa
3. Lack of any way to deal with casters at a distance (ranged silence/death grip etc)

Line of sight. Minor annoyance yes, but there are far more important things that need fixing first (Charge, Enrage).

03/27/2011 6:29 AMPosted by Tewa
4. Worse self-healing than other tanks.

Irrelevant since Paladins are getting nerfed, and DKs are designed around self-healing. Warriors have extremely poor self healing (unless you count the +healing received talent).

03/27/2011 6:29 AMPosted by Tewa
5. Lack of utility compared to other tanks.

Depends on your definition of the world "utility". We don't have a raid CD, but then again neither do DKs.

03/27/2011 6:29 AMPosted by Tewa
6. Tend to gear up more slowly than plate tanks due to loot system (and bad selection of VP items), so can seem worse than plate tanks by comparison.

Errrr, what?
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85 Night Elf Druid
8135
03/28/2011 9:22 AMPosted by Arielle
Errrr, what?


Consider a raid with 1 Druid and 1 Plate tank.

The Plate tank will have 0 competition for loot, except tokens, some trinkets (competing with the Druid tank), and a few ambiguous items with stats like hit/mastery.

The Druid will be competing with Cats and Rogues for nearly every slot, with Hunters for accessories and weapon, and with Enh Shamans for accessories. Plus the other tank for some trinkets.

So when an item drops, the Plate tank will generally be the only one who wants it for MS. The Druid will likely be 1 of 2-3 who want it in a 10-man and 7ish in a 25-man.

This varies by raid group composition and RNG, of course. But on average, when it's time for the raid leader to decide who gets the hard tanking job, the Druid will generally be much less geared unless the guild has a policy of giving him loot priority.
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90 Troll Druid
8840
03/28/2011 9:43 AMPosted by Kalisti
Errrr, what?


Consider a raid with 1 Druid and 1 Plate tank.

The Plate tank will have 0 competition for loot, except tokens, some trinkets (competing with the Druid tank), and a few ambiguous items with stats like hit/mastery.

The Druid will be competing with Cats and Rogues for nearly every slot, with Hunters for accessories and weapon, and with Enh Shamans for accessories. Plus the other tank for some trinkets.

So when an item drops, the Plate tank will generally be the only one who wants it for MS. The Druid will likely be 1 of 2-3 who want it in a 10-man and 7ish in a 25-man.

This varies by raid group composition and RNG, of course. But on average, when it's time for the raid leader to decide who gets the hard tanking job, the Druid will generally be much less geared unless the guild has a policy of giving him loot priority.


Yes, but you have to consider, by proxy, that there is more agility gear that drops than there is plate tank gear.
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85 Night Elf Druid
8135
03/28/2011 9:48 AMPosted by Fishnchips
Yes, but you have to consider, by proxy, that there is more agility gear that drops than there is plate tank gear.


Is there?

ilvl 359 Leather with Agility, usable by Alliance Druid:

http://www.wowhead.com/items=4.2?filter=minle=359;maxle=359;si=1;ub=11;cr=21;crs=1;crv=0

20 items

iilvl 359 Plate with Strength, no Crit or Haste, usable by Alliance Warrior:

http://www.wowhead.com/items=4.4?filter=minle=359;maxle=359;si=1;ub=1;cr=20:96:103;crs=1:3:3;crv=0:0:0

25 items
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