HW: Sanctuary

85 Gnome Priest
5785
HW:S is not broken. It works fine. Its used when aoe healing is so intense that laying down HW:S before the aoe improves everyones chance of survival. Maloriak red phase, feud in chimeron as already named above. If you don't find a use for it then don't cast it. Priests don't need an aoe healing buff we are already the top at it. As to the complaint about mana cost of healing rain and HW:S, shaman can cast lightning bolt for mana back so the cost can be replenished before it even needs to be cast again and for priests we have insane mana regen and sitting at 113k mana in raids, 8k for extra healing is negligible.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
4055
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soUkTRxoMOY&feature=related

BOO!

NO

HWS is one of the more visually appealing spells in the game why would they make it so crapptastic looking?!


They did scale it up in a more recent build. The graphic is still a bit too small though. It's noticeably smaller than the actual effect area.

I'd be careful what to wish for, you might get it.

If they buff HW:Sanctuary, they'll likely nerf Prayer of Healing or Circle of Healing commensurately to keep healing output the same, since they seem to be pretty happy with that.

Do you really want that?


That's not how Priest healing works. Priests do their healing with so many different heals that buffs and nerfs for our heals effects our playstyle more than it effects our overall healing. Spells have to be buffed to the point where they are superior to any other heal in our arsenal to result in a net buff.

Just take a look at the last patch. PoH was nerfed by 15% and HC was nerfed by 10%, but CoH was buffed 30%, ProM was buffed ~20%, PW:S was buffed by 200%, and Renew had it's mana cost reduced by ~25%. On paper that looks like one hell of a buff. The reality was it was actually a (slight) net nerf. The reason the buffs to those heals didn't increase our overall healing is we weren't even using those spells. Those buffs merely brought the spells into usability. HW:S needs the same treatment.
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85 Gnome Priest
5785
No priest wants to nerf our group heals to be shaman 2.0
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
4055
03/27/2011 8:08 AMPosted by Albinosmurfs
No priest wants to nerf our group heals to be shaman 2.0


Reading is pretty hard. Btw, if HW:S is such a good heal, how come you don't use it?

http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/19467/
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
3210
03/27/2011 7:57 AMPosted by Highbeams
That's not how Priest healing works. Priests do their healing with so many different heals that buffs and nerfs for our heals effects our playstyle more than it effects our overall healing.


HW:Sanctuary has a .5 second cast time. If it were sufficiently mana-efficient, one could use it all the time on top of Prayer of Healing, Circle of Healing, and Prayer of Mending. In fact, that already happens when throughput concerns become more pressing than mana concerns. HW:Sanctuary does not seriously compete with other heals for free cast time, it's not used because its HPM are pretty horrible. You really have to need the extra throughput to justify the extra mana usage at the moment; however, if it became competitive in terms of HPM, people would stack it all the time with other AE heals.

I've got a holy priestess myself, I'm pretty familiar with how the mechanics work.
Edited by Fionne on 3/27/2011 8:19 AM PDT
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Holy word sanctuary was the sparkliest most paladin-esque spell a priest had, now they're back with penance being the most attractive spell.

I guess I don't care. HR is now prettier and my priest is disc anyway xD
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85 Troll Shaman
4075
Ok, I'm gonna speak for all shammies here:

STAY THE $#%& AWAY FROM MY HEALING RAIN!

We love that spell. Very useful in many areas.


Shammies have problems with weakness on spread-out fights, but that's a symptom of a more general class issue, and not HR itself. And for stacking fights/phases, HR is absolutely incredible. Please do not have Blizzard Fix us. They just got done actually buffing us into something special. If they start "fixing" us, we'll be right where we started.
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85 Night Elf Druid
14060
STAY THE $#%& AWAY FROM MY HEALING RAIN!

We love that spell. Very useful in many areas.


Very few raiding shamans like it because it's a terrible spell. It doesn't matter how much healing it does when every fight is designed around movement.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
4055
That's not how Priest healing works. Priests do their healing with so many different heals that buffs and nerfs for our heals effects our playstyle more than it effects our overall healing.


HW:Sanctuary has a .5 second cast time. If it were sufficiently mana-efficient, one could use it all the time on top of Prayer of Healing, Circle of Healing, and Prayer of Mending. In fact, that already happens when throughput concerns become more pressing than mana concerns. HW:Sanctuary does not seriously compete with other heals for free cast time, it's not used because its HPM are pretty horrible. You really have to need the extra throughput to justify the extra mana usage at the moment; however, if it became competitive in terms of HPM, people would stack it all the time with other AE heals.

I've got a holy priestess myself, I'm pretty familiar with how the mechanics work.


That would depend entirely on how cheap they made it. If they made it 3k for example, then yes you would use it on CD. The small amount of healing you would get just by placing it on melee would be enough to justify the cost. If it was more like 6-7k then you will still need to wait till players were grouped up for it to pay off.

Someone made the suggestion of making HW:S instant so it can benefit from mana reduction talents and abilities. That's probably the easiest / most elegant solution. That would put the spell at ~7k mana when using IW and MA.

Holy word sanctuary was the sparkliest most paladin-esque spell a priest had, now they're back with penance being the most attractive spell.


It's still very sparkly. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVR-MCzZ0jo

I'm hoping they make it / have made it (im not on the ptr) just a bit bigger.
Edited by Highbeams on 3/27/2011 8:48 AM PDT
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85 Blood Elf Priest
3095
The question is, the cost/benefit ratio of the HW:S is very low, which makes it useless practically in all the raids.

I'd be careful what to wish for, you might get it.

If they buff HW:Sanctuary, they'll likely nerf Prayer of Healing or Circle of Healing commensurately to keep healing output the same, since they seem to be pretty happy with that.

Do you really want that?


If This is the case, it eliminates the HW:S and buff the CoH and PoH, because if i have a spell i want to use since it is usable...
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It's still very sparkly. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVR-MCzZ0jo

I'm hoping they make it / have made it (im not on the ptr) just a bit bigger.


I guess it is but Penance is still now a priests most attractive spell in my honest opinion, I liked the aurora look of HW:S.
Edited by Amy on 3/27/2011 8:56 AM PDT
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85 Goblin Priest
7875
03/27/2011 8:17 AMPosted by Fionne
That's not how Priest healing works. Priests do their healing with so many different heals that buffs and nerfs for our heals effects our playstyle more than it effects our overall healing.


HW:Sanctuary has a .5 second cast time. If it were sufficiently mana-efficient, one could use it all the time on top of Prayer of Healing, Circle of Healing, and Prayer of Mending. In fact, that already happens when throughput concerns become more pressing than mana concerns. HW:Sanctuary does not seriously compete with other heals for free cast time, it's not used because its HPM are pretty horrible. You really have to need the extra throughput to justify the extra mana usage at the moment; however, if it became competitive in terms of HPM, people would stack it all the time with other AE heals.

I've got a holy priestess myself, I'm pretty familiar with how the mechanics work.


You can stack it all the time now at higher gear levels if you have a mana tide totem (or 2) =P I tested it and it's sustainable to be cast literally almost every CD on a 10 minute fight (heroic magmaw) if you have all the appropriate raid buffs and mana tide. The question is why would you at the current state of the spell.

I'm not sure the dev's would be fine with this, they usually don't like spells not being used (they also don't like spells being overused =P). As an aside, I hope that they will change our State of Mind talent after the Chakra change (reduced CD on chakra when chakra effectively becomes a stance next patch? yeah...).
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85 Troll Shaman
4075
STAY THE $#%& AWAY FROM MY HEALING RAIN!

We love that spell. Very useful in many areas.


Very few raiding shamans like it because it's a terrible spell. It doesn't matter how much healing it does when every fight is designed around movement.


It is not a terrible spell. It's a situational spell. There is a large difference.

Healing Rain is very powerful in certain phases and certain fights. VERY powerful. Redesigning it around movement fights would not fix the problems resto has with movement-intensive fights. It would, at best, be a band-aid fix, while possibly severely nerfing the spell in the areas it is currently powerful.

As I said: Resto shammies have more general issues with mobility and range. Healing Rain isn't the source of those problems. It merely highlights them a little.
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85 Gnome Priest
5785
03/27/2011 8:09 AMPosted by Highbeams
Reading is pretty hard. Btw, if HW:S is such a good heal, how come you don't use it?


I don't use it because i'm disc for almost every fight I heal. I use to run holy/shadow but my comp needed me to go disc for tank healing. Trust me the last things priest need is ANOTHER spell to use more often. Its great as a situational spell, but we already have the most heals of any healer in the game why make another heal to use even more routinely. Priests are fine and the only real argument for why we want HW:S to be equivilent to our other spells is because its shiny, or because its "fair". Why does it need to compete with our other spells? Its like every other heal in our arsenal, it has its purpose.

Edit-- to the resto shaman, my guild resto shammy has a spec completely built around healing raid for raid healing because it is sooo amazing for a multitude of fights. He has 2 resto spec's for the fights that don't have grouped up periods, but when healing rain shines it REALLY shines (Chog'all, Maloriak, Chimeron, Al'akir, Nef, Twin Dragons) which is plenty of fights to make it a more than viable spell.
Edited by Albinosmurfs on 3/27/2011 1:01 PM PDT
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
3210
You can stack it all the time now at higher gear levels if you have a mana tide totem (or 2) =P I tested it and it's sustainable to be cast literally almost every CD on a 10 minute fight (heroic magmaw) if you have all the appropriate raid buffs and mana tide. The question is why would you at the current state of the spell.

Because it has higher HPC than all other priest AE healing spells?
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
4055
03/27/2011 1:49 PMPosted by Fionne
You can stack it all the time now at higher gear levels if you have a mana tide totem (or 2) =P I tested it and it's sustainable to be cast literally almost every CD on a 10 minute fight (heroic magmaw) if you have all the appropriate raid buffs and mana tide. The question is why would you at the current state of the spell.

Because it has higher HPC than all other priest AE healing spells?


That's assuming you can get 6+ players standing on it for 18 seconds, and assuming people even need healing for those full 18 seconds. It's extremely rare that happens. HoTs usually have disproportionately high HPM to compensate for the fact that their actual effectiveness is kind of up in the air after you cast it. Spells like HW:S and Healing rain get hit double hard because in addition to being a HoT, you also have to cross your fingers and hope people actually stand in it.


Its like every other heal in our arsenal, it has its purpose.


It really doesn't. That's the problem. I'm mostly happy with Priest healing atm. I think Blizzard has done a great job of making sure most of our heals have a use. HW:S and Holy Nova are clear outliers though. You're not nerfing yourself at all if you choose to never utilize those spells.
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85 Gnome Priest
5785
03/27/2011 2:03 PMPosted by Highbeams
It really doesn't. That's the problem. I'm mostly happy with Priest healing atm. I think Blizzard has done a great job of making sure most of our heals have a use. HW:S and Holy Nova are clear outliers though. You're not nerfing yourself at all if you choose to never utilize those spells.


And I don't think its in our best interest to make every single spell we have raid viable. Of course holy nova doesn't get used.... but why would we want to .... HW:S actually does get used just not enough to fit your liking, and i get that, but buffing it adds an unneeded complication to priest healing, we already have Heal, Greater Heal, Flash Heal, Binding Heal, Circle of Healing, Prayer of Healing, Prayer of Mending, PW:S, Renew, HW:Serenity, HW: Sanctuary, Dispel, Cure Disease. Is this not enough? We have the most healing spells of any class you your complaining we don't use some of them more often? Paladins would kill for any of our aoe heals and your complaining we want ppl to have more of a reason to clump up for boss fights, hey lets nerf our mobility and ability to heal targets not standing on top of each other..... man the nerve of some ppl
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
4055
03/27/2011 2:15 PMPosted by Albinosmurfs
It really doesn't. That's the problem. I'm mostly happy with Priest healing atm. I think Blizzard has done a great job of making sure most of our heals have a use. HW:S and Holy Nova are clear outliers though. You're not nerfing yourself at all if you choose to never utilize those spells.


And I don't think its in our best interest to make every single spell we have raid viable. Of course holy nova doesn't get used.... but why would we want to .... HW:S actually does get used just not enough to fit your liking, and i get that, but buffing it adds an unneeded complication to priest healing, we already have Heal, Greater Heal, Flash Heal, Binding Heal, Circle of Healing, Prayer of Healing, Prayer of Mending, PW:S, Renew, HW:Serenity, HW: Sanctuary, Dispel, Cure Disease. Is this not enough? We have the most healing spells of any class you your complaining we don't use some of them more often? Paladins would kill for any of our aoe heals and your complaining we want ppl to have more of a reason to clump up for boss fights, hey lets nerf our mobility and ability to heal targets not standing on top of each other..... man the nerve of some ppl


Your argument is basically "I don't want to have to use more heals, so don't fix HW:S". First of all you shouldn't be playing a Priest if the concept of a lot of different healing spells is unappealing. Secondly, even if HW:S was buffed it would still be optional. Priests have so much overlap that very few of our heals are "must use". HW:S wouldn't be any different. And for the reasons I explained above, it wouldn't be necessary to nerf any of a Priest's other heals either.
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85 Night Elf Priest
8325
Ok, I'm gonna speak for all shammies here:

STAY THE $#%& AWAY FROM MY HEALING RAIN!

lol Haha, most people with common sense realize that buffing HW: Sanct to HR's quality would be a ridiculous and unrealistic buff.

I use this spell on one encounter in the entire game. Pre-cast just before Cookie in Heroic VC with a group of four melee. =P

I personally vote for a complete redesign of this spell. We don't need more physical AoE healing arsenal, imo. They can either lower the cost substantially or rework it entirely to something more fun. Because as it is ... your time and mana are always better spent on PoH.

EDIT: Actually, nvm, the best thing to do with this spell is just to give it to DKs too. We don't want it anyway, and it'll go nice with their BR. ^_^
Edited by Lethea on 3/27/2011 5:24 PM PDT
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85 Gnome Priest
5785
03/27/2011 2:43 PMPosted by Highbeams
Your argument is basically "I don't want to have to use more heals, so don't fix HW:S". First of all you shouldn't be playing a Priest if the concept of a lot of different healing spells is unappealing. Secondly, even if HW:S was buffed it would still be optional. Priests have so much overlap that very few of our heals are "must use". HW:S wouldn't be any different. And for the reasons I explained above, it wouldn't be necessary to nerf any of a Priest's other heals either.


I'm not saying I couldn't use it, or wouldn't be able to use it. I'm making the obvious argument that we already have more spell diversity than any other class. Also i see you ignored my point about how we'd be losing less effect with our aoe heals if we nerfed our ranged heals and condensed them into a shaman like healing rain spell. Please make me less effective at healing players at ranged so i can use a spell that places a hot on the ground! Thats a bad change with priests.
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