HW: Sanctuary

69 Human Paladin
810
Efflorescence works because it has a lower mana cost.

Healing Rain works because it does a LOT of healing FOR the mana cost.

Holy Word: Sanctuary is going to need to do one of these two in order to be cast OR it will need to provide some sort of utility or boost. A "modest" HPS buff cannot save this spell from it's mana bar tanking cost.
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85 Blood Elf Priest
1665
2) we don’t want Sanctuary to be so similar to Healing Rain.

Again, the devs agree that a modest buff is a fair solution, although it is hard to know when or by what magnitude such a buff might come along.


I think the best solution is to change the spell completely. Holy already has plenty of AoE heals that just adding another won't amount to much. The best option is to not make it an AoE heal directly... Think about this: Disc has an AoE damage reduction, how about Holy, with Sanctuary, gets an AoE +% healing boost on anyone in the field. Something like +20% healing received for anyone standing in the effect. Of course, no matter what, the mana cost really needs to be toned down as well.
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85 Goblin Priest
9855
03/29/2011 9:47 PMPosted by Tuer
Holy, with Sanctuary, gets an AoE +% healing boost on anyone in the field. Something like +20% healing received for anyone standing in the effect.


I agree, it probably should be a raid cooldown, probably with a 3 minute CD.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
SWC
11255
Haste increases the frequency of the ticks (can't tell if it already does this but the tooltip doesn't change)

If they don't want to completely change the spell then reduce the mana cost to around 4-5k mana. At 6k mana cost and HW:sanc hitting all 10 players in your raid it'd only have a little better hpm than a glyphed poh.
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85 Human Priest
6845
I think most holy priests can agree that this spell is extremely expensive at 9,059 mana for the slow, weak, and extremely situational heal that it is. It’s inefficiency is more pronounced in 25 man raids, due to the 6 person cap, and the decreased healing the more people standing in the circle.

There have been some good suggestions in this thread and I’m sure Blizzard realizes they must proceed with caution if they want to maintain the unique niche of this spell without making it overpowered.

The ideas I like the best so far are these:

1) Reduce the mana cost to something much more reasonable. Around 6,000 mana seems about right. There are a couple of ways to do that, either make it instant so it benefits from Mental Agility and make the spell cost 32% base mana, or leave it’s cast time alone and make it cost 30% base mana.

2) Decrease the mana cost slightly, maybe around 34% base mana, but make it a smart heal. This would tend to balance out the “imbalance” of this spell for larger raid groups.

I think either of these two solutions would keep this niche spell in the holy priest arsenal but would make it something you might actually cast without making the spell or holy priest AoE healing too strong.

Personally, I could and do live without the spell but I appreciate that Blizzard has recognized how weak and inefficient it is. Maybe Holy Nova can be revisted soon as well.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
9600
Lot of priest in here keep posting on healing rain and what it can do. You need to remember that shaman have 2 forms of AoE. Chain heal and Healing rain. Priest have, PoH, Sanct, PoM, Holy Nova, Coh. So I would suggest focusing on what needs to be done to fix this one spell not compare apples and oranges. Also Healing Rain has the same limitation of that you hope people stand in it not to mention it cost a crap load of mana to drop. On a different note this spell needs a bump up in strength or a severe mana reduction, as the Dev pointed out Holy Priest are already powerful in AoE healing so I'm sure the only thing stopping them is balancing. I feel like the easiest fix would be to cut its mana cost in half. There is no way it should cost 9k mana for the healing it does. Other then this spell I like my Holy priest tool box and I'm hoping some ideas in this thread get a look.



03/30/2011 12:53 AMPosted by Fractura
Its funny how fast this got attention froma blue, while the other forums with pally healing remains ignored...


Don't derail this thread. That being said Dev's can learn a lesson on what has happened in Cata so far. When a class has legitimate issue sometimes a little simple acknowledgment from the Dev's go a long way. Even if you just say we see you and hear and give us nothing else it can deflect anger and bitterness.
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100 Night Elf Priest
17700
I know Mr. Blue Poster isn't reading anymore. But my suggestion, how about having HW: Sanctuary have a secondary effect so it doesn't need to compete with Healing Rain, but rather augments it.

What I am thinking of, specifically, is having it so anyone in HW: Sanctuary takes 5% increased healing or so.
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1 Human Priest
0
Wow.

If they think that the strongest aoe healer needs more attention to their aoe healing abilities what does that say about the three other classes?
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85 Human Priest
6845
Wow.

If they think that the strongest aoe healer needs more attention to their aoe healing abilities what does that say about the three other classes?


I think Blizzard already answered your question with the upcoming changes in 4.1 to resto druid Tranq (reduced to a 3 min CD) and Efflorescence becoming a smart heal, and Shaman getting their new fancy "socialist" totem (redistribution of health).
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85 Gnome Priest
4540

There are two things that have to be dealt with here: 1) Holy priest AE healing is pretty decent as-is, and 2) we don’t want Sanctuary to be so similar to Healing Rain.

Again, the devs agree that a modest buff is a fair solution, although it is hard to know when or by what magnitude such a buff might come along.


I couldn't agree more that a sub par ground effect heal is not what Sanctuary should be. While priest AE healing is in a decent state, I for one don't enjoy PoH being the main contributing factor to this and would like to have a more flexible raid healing tool other than CoH/PoM to use. HPS/HPM aside, I can't help but think that retooling this spell to tie into Lightwell somehow could be done with great effect.

Lightwell itself can be a very strong tool, but it's only as good as your raid is about using it. Retooling Sanctuary that when used triggered a secondary effect could be done in several ways:

1) Pulsing: would function similar to holy radiance emitting around the lightwell. Downside to this is that if your raid uses up your lightwell frequently, the long CD will prevent you from making use of it.

2) Erupting HoT: using sanctuary could consume X charges from the lightwell and either place a hot or say miniature regrowth type effect on players (assuming smartheals like efflor is now).

Another option could be to tie the effect into Prayer of Mending (going with the theme of activation here) that would cause the next PoM cast to cause an extra single charge PoM to split from each bounce. I'm sure other interesting effects could be created and tied into PoM as well.
Edited by Gomp on 3/30/2011 10:10 AM PDT
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85 Draenei Priest
14060
While priest AE healing is in a decent state, I for one don't enjoy PoH being the main contributing factor to this and would like to have a more flexible raid healing tool other than CoH/PoM to use. HPS/HPM aside, I can't help but think that retooling this spell to tie into Lightwell somehow could be done with great effect.


Let me get this straight, you dislike having one of the only controllable AoE healing spell in the game and would rather have yet another smart heal play the game for you?

Do you have any idea how often smart heals pick pets and random nonsensical targets? Nothing like casting Wild Growth into melee and seeing 3 ranged and a tank get it.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
4055
03/30/2011 10:31 AMPosted by Mint
While priest AE healing is in a decent state, I for one don't enjoy PoH being the main contributing factor to this and would like to have a more flexible raid healing tool other than CoH/PoM to use. HPS/HPM aside, I can't help but think that retooling this spell to tie into Lightwell somehow could be done with great effect.


Let me get this straight, you dislike having one of the only controllable AoE healing spell in the game and would rather have yet another smart heal play the game for you?

Do you have any idea how often smart heals pick pets and random nonsensical targets? Nothing like casting Wild Growth into melee and seeing 3 ranged and a tank get it.


Offtopic but, PoH's group mechanic is just as much a burden as it is a blessing. If the raid isn't taking damage all at once, and it's all random, PoH is almost never useful (most of ICC, PVP). Yeah control is nice, but heals going to players at full health is just as wasteful (if not more so) as heals going to pets.
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90 Human Priest
15890
I use most of the spells that holy has to offer; however, holy nova is extremely rare, and I haven't cast HW: Sanctuary since mana tide started being the shaman's spirit instead of mine with my on use spirit trinket.

The advantage of having lots of tools available is that if one is never worth casting, you don't miss it too much. There are occasional uses for the Serenity, and Chastise is actually helpful in PvP. Self mana burn for an extremely weak ground heal just isn't worthwhile.
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85 Draenei Priest
14060
03/30/2011 10:39 AMPosted by Highbeams
Offtopic but, PoH's group mechanic is just as much a burden as it is a blessing. If the raid isn't taking damage all at once, and it's all random, PoH is almost never useful (most of ICC, PVP). Yeah control is nice, but heals going to players at full health is just as wasteful (if not more so) as heals going to pets.


PoH wasn't bad in ICC, healing was. You could still hit 70% overhealing with any heal while massively underhealing hard modes. And then there was HLK, which greatly favored shields over everything else. In the current healing context, Prayer of Healing is amazing, almost every fight has some high raid wide AoE damage and it's not like the raid gets topped off within seconds by HoTs.

Now, if you're wondering how having control over what you heal is relevant. Shamans have Healing Rain, which accounts for 40%+ of their healing. They cast it once every 10 seconds and who it'll heal is 100% reliant on fight mechanics and the raid's willingness to move back into it (assuming it's even an option). HW: Sanctuary should be an extra tool to help you raid heal, not a replacement for the entire raid healing toolbox.
Edited by Mint on 3/30/2011 11:50 AM PDT
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85 Gnome Priest
4540
03/30/2011 10:31 AMPosted by Mint
While priest AE healing is in a decent state, I for one don't enjoy PoH being the main contributing factor to this and would like to have a more flexible raid healing tool other than CoH/PoM to use. HPS/HPM aside, I can't help but think that retooling this spell to tie into Lightwell somehow could be done with great effect.


Let me get this straight, you dislike having one of the only controllable AoE healing spell in the game and would rather have yet another smart heal play the game for you?

Do you have any idea how often smart heals pick pets and random nonsensical targets? Nothing like casting Wild Growth into melee and seeing 3 ranged and a tank get it.


Don't get me wrong, I don't hate the spell. I hate that such a large portion of our hps is tied to a group based mechanic. The "control" you speak of is great when a fight has raid wide AE damage or predictable bursts so that groups can be configured properly. Its the fights where damage is inconsistent or during large AE burst phases that another tool would be useful to supplement outside of the "control" of PoH. Retooling sanctuary wouldn't be replacing our core heals (your healing breakdown wouldn't change much), it would just be giving us an actual worthwhile tool to use intelligently instead of more PoH spam.
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85 Dwarf Priest
0
I find it quite worth the 9k mana, it's our chance to have fun like druids:

<throw on the ground under tank/melee>
<watch tank/melee panic as they mistake it for a new "avoid stuff on the ground" mechanic>
<watch tank/melee run into actual "avoid stuff on the ground" mechanic and die>
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85 Human Priest
4090
Too bad they're changing the graphic in 4.1 so it wont look like instadeathcirclelol anymore
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23 Troll Hunter
220
03/30/2011 3:03 PMPosted by Avalastia
Too bad they're changing the graphic in 4.1 so it wont look like instadeathcirclelol anymore


Probably not many will bother to see the videos of the new animation before 4.1 hits. And since people nowadays panic with anything on the ground, it might lead to some fun the first few times :3
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
4055
So I was able to fraps a BH pug run. This fight has nearly optimal conditions for HW:Sanctuary because there's very little movement, people stay grouped together, the damage comes in large bursts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7N8yeNQ0Dc

Here was my healing efficiency breakdown. Some things to note is that HW:S was healing 5 instead of the optimal 6 people, PoH and CoH weren't glyphed (forgot to swap specs), I was using Inner Will, and these numbers don't account for mastery.

CoH: 10.0 EHpM. 33,072 Healing per cast
HW:S: 3.1 EHpM. 29,000 HpC
ProM: 4.6 EHpM. 15,420 HpC
PoH: 6.8 EHpM. 36,450 HpC
Renew: 6.2 EHpM. 19,579 HpC
PW:S: 5.0 EHpM. 24,284 HpC
Lightwell: 22.5 EHpM. 144,837 HpC

I think in order for HW:S to be useful it needs to have efficiency on par with PoH, or at least Renew since those are our other "filler" heals. If anything it should be a bit more efficient than those heals on this particular fight since it has such favorable conditions. Even if there had been 6 people getting healed, the EHpM would still only be ~3.9. Hopefully this information helps put into perspective where HW:S currently sits.
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