Demonology Warlocks and Succubus vs. Felguard

90 Orc Warlock
13475
Could a blue explain whether Demonology PvE is intended to be a spec that relies on the Succubus for single-target fights, instead of the signature pet from speccing Demo, the Felguard?

Simcrafts currently have the Succubus as the highest single-target DPS pet and the Felguard as higher for AoE situations (and this has been the case for a while now). However, the Demon Soul buff for the Felguard (+15% spell haste, +10% shadow and fire damage for 20 seconds) is obviously better than the buff for the Succubus (+10% shadow bolt damage for 20 seconds), since the Felguard's buff provides +10% shadow damage and thus everything the Succubus buff provides and more. But Simcrafts don't show the buff from the Felguard being enough to make it the pet of choice for single target fights. So Demonology warlocks end up using the Succubus on most boss fights instead of the pet that we can only get from being Demonology. And we do (I think) silly things like soulburning an instant-cast Felguard in Bloodlust to get the better buff, then ditching it to get back the Succubus.

Is this intended? It just seems weird to me that the pet we get only from one tree is a pet we don't use in most situations (about 7/12 - Chimaeron, Omnitron, Atra, Nef, some versions of Halfus, V&T, Ascen. Council, Al'Akir).
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90 Undead Warlock
9610
Bump
I've noticed this too and was wondering the same thing.
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85 Undead Warlock
7230
It's like this...


We ALL missed the memo when the Devs said they didn't give a %@*#
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85 Goblin Warlock
6685
Could a blue explain whether Demonology PvE is intended to be a spec that relies on the Succubus for single-target fights, instead of the signature pet from speccing Demo, the Felguard?

Simcrafts currently have the Succubus as the highest single-target DPS pet and the Felguard as higher for AoE situations (and this has been the case for a while now). However, the Demon Soul buff for the Felguard (+15% spell haste, +10% shadow and fire damage for 20 seconds) is obviously better than the buff for the Succubus (+10% shadow bolt damage for 20 seconds), since the Felguard's buff provides +10% shadow damage and thus everything the Succubus buff provides and more. But Simcrafts don't show the buff from the Felguard being enough to make it the pet of choice for single target fights. So Demonology warlocks end up using the Succubus on most boss fights instead of the pet that we can only get from being Demonology. And we do (I think) silly things like soulburning an instant-cast Felguard in Bloodlust to get the better buff, then ditching it to get back the Succubus.

Is this intended? It just seems weird to me that the pet we get only from one tree is a pet we don't use in most situations (about 7/12 - Chimaeron, Omnitron, Atra, Nef, some versions of Halfus, V&T, Ascen. Council, Al'Akir).


This is true. Currently, the Succubus is the highest DPS Warlock pet for both Affliction and Demonology. Her single-target damage is so high, that Affliction Warlocks go so far as to glyph for Lash of Pain for an extra kick. The Felguard is current #2 choice for single-target situations and #1 choice for AoE.

That being the case, fights like Magmaw would more-than-likely favor a Felguard Warlocks given the necessity for AoE whereas a fight like Chimeron favors Succubus Warlocks given the fight has one single boss.

Here's something else to think about. Patch 4.1 will see the Felhunters damage being doubled and Mana Feed granted an increased proc rate if the Warlock uses either the Felhunter or Felguard. Theoretically, this might make the Felhunter the ideal pet for single-target situations for both Affliction and Demonology Warlocks and the Succubus will probably become just another fancy picture taking up space in our Warlock spell book (just like Searing Pain and Enslave Demon.)

Either way, it seems one pet is continually being left out of the overall picture when it comes to the most viable Warlock specs.
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85 Worgen Warlock
11825
The even more interesting part.....come 4.1 the felpup will be the best pet for demonology. Thus the single target dps heirarchy will look like this:

1. Felpup
2. Succy w' glyph
3. Imp w' glyph
4. Felguard (glyph changes nothing)
5. Voidwalker

So the pet centric spec of a pet tree's special/premier pet is 4th out of 5 pets in terms of non aoe damage? How did that tuning seem like a good idea? Is it that hard to make a glyph that doesn't suck or tune the base abilities to improve single target significantly without breaking aoe? I would think buffing base melee attacks or bringing back demo frenzy and having it apply to only melee swings would be a step in the right direction.

Its not like demo has any pvp presence to worry about. Its not like demo is anything but a buff bot outside of maloriak (or aoe burst scenariors). The spec is a complete turd single target if there is an ele shaman around.
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90 Orc Warlock
0
This expansion is a dud for warlocks. Nothing exciting to look forward other than nerfs and band aid fixes to problems that should have been fixed during beta, but were put on the back burner for the super duper interesting mechanic that is "HoPo". Yeah, paladins are getting a kick out of that -_-

Expect the pet roller coaster to continue all the to deathwing. Hell, it would not surprise in the least if they decided to buff the voidwalker for a few months and all specs used it for top deeps. So many people have posted so many awesome ideas and fixes, but it falls on deaf ears and generates the same generic response, "We're aware of the issue". Yeah, they are aware how terrible things are, yet seem hesitant to actually do anything about it.

Best advice is to just deal with it until boredom overcomes you or something else comes along.
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85 Undead Warlock
12590
I believe comments from devs have suggested that the demo tree isn't supposed to have one premiere pet. Of course, in terms of PVE, it's only ever going to have one pet. Whatever pet does the most DPS. Not sure how that creates choice for a demonology warlock.
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85 Worgen Warlock
11825
Right now you spec aff or dest for almost every fight in the game and only go demo for maloriak. (provided you have a buff bot) This isn't changing for 4.1 at all. Unless the firelands raids are frequent aoe fests then demo will only see buff bot duty there as well.

IMO the FG should be buffed to where he is the premier pet and gets the spec closer to aff/dest in non aoe numbers. Make the glyph not suck, buff the pet, whatever....
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84 Troll Warlock
1335
(off topic) succubus' stun and nock-backs are good in pvp so i succubi, also i like the invibility for guarding flags.

Edit: also i must say all your armor looks great :) i'm so jellous
Edited by Jovindo on 4/5/2011 2:46 PM PDT
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90 Orc Warlock
13475
I have no objection to Demonology Warlocks using different pets in different situations. It just doesn't make sense to me that:

(A) the signature pet of our tree is a pet we rarely use, and

(B) because we're using the succubus we end up with a buff from Demon Soul that seems designed for another tree, not demonology (since in Demo you basically never cast Shadow Bolt repeatedly for 20 seconds, and our tree's +fire/+shadow damage bonus reflects that we're a fire/shadow hybrid like the felguard buff provides)

It just feels hackneyed, pieced together on accident. There's no consistency between the idea of the tree (with this signature pet we don't normally use, and this buff we end up having to use that doesn't fit our tree) and the reality of the tree. It'd be nice if they fit together more.
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90 Undead Warlock
15860
No spec gets to cast Shadow Bolts for 20 seconds. Demon Soul Succubus works just fine for Demo, outside of Decimation, and it generally fits quite nicely into your rotation.

Regardless, any time that you want to be Demo, you're probably going to want the Felguard, anyway. Felstorm on CD on adds just adds up so damn quickly.
He's also pretty clearly Demo's pet of choice for PvP.

I actually like this model better than the 4.1 model. In 4.1, Succubus will be pretty useless outside of fights with an airphase.
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90 Orc Warlock
11205
04/05/2011 10:48 AMPosted by Fdhdsh
Theyve said in the past they want warlocks to use different pets in different situations.


Which has never really been the case or made any sense. Affliction has always uses the same pet regardless of the situation. Destruction as well, with the Imp basically the only pet option you have thanks to talents.

While Demonology is somewhat closer to that idea, it still isn't that great. You use Felguard if its a fight when a lot of AOE, otherwise you stick to the highest DPS pet. Even for Demonology, it doesn't make sense for them to want to use different pets in different situations given their spec defining ability is the Felguard.

Meanwhile, the Voidwalker continues to remain useless along with the Felhunter (soon to be replaced by the Succubus).

EDIT: When you take into consideration Demon Soul as well, there doesn't even seem to be any effort to make pets attractive to the different specs either.
Edited by Nanohaxial on 4/13/2011 11:17 PM PDT
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85 Undead Warlock
9100
mabye the sucubus is intended for single target and during aoe phases you can soulburn a fg for aoe then switch back to succy also possible switch the pets during your demon soul use kinda like a pokemaster lol but perhaps the intended design goal of demo is to work with multiple demons for encounters and not just the one.

obviously still glyphing succubus over felgaurd and only busting out the fg for an aoe phase/demonsoul phase.
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85 Worgen Warlock
11825
Its been a gain/common thing for demo locks to start a fight with a felguard for the demonsoul+meta and synch'd trinket procs then soulburn a succy for the rest of the fight. Beyond that one swap its not worth swapping back and forth though.

Come 4.1 demo will use a felpup and incinerate (w' meta/immolate) glyph for single target fights. I don't have a problem if the FH and FG are within say 5% or less of each other single target. For a 10m it would be fine to use the FH for interupts, a purge, maybe missing mage buff but that is about it. It shouldn't be so much better than the FG that demonsoul becomes irrelevant. Either make demonsoul strong enough to matter, retune the pets slightly, or make demonsoul spec based.

The only demon that would impact is the VW and his demonsoul should have been a baseline pet ability of the VW long ago. Hunters get to MD to their pets for no cooldown whatsoever, why should the lock pet not only be weaker and have worse threat to start but only have that ability on a long CD??

TBH for 4.1 I'd use the pup on single target w' incinerate glyph and the FG w' its glyph for aoe fights. You spend more on a volcanic potion each fight than you would on dust. Really though the FG could use a buff single target wise. I'd buff his single target via the glyph buffing his melee damage, his aoe is already fine. Hell you could just buff the glyph to increase all damage 5% with the FG out and it wouldn't be out of line considering where demo is elsewise.

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