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I Personally Love Blood DK tank, ive tried all the other classes and i can just work my rotation better with a DK idk why. Anyway what are my off stat and gem priorities? Gem wise ive been shooting for stam to get me to 140k base for heroics and have done a few heroics and have done fine. Should those be swapping to other gems once i start gearing? Also, secondary stats how much is Dodge/parry/Mastery weighed for DK's?
90 Human Warrior
Dammit Ill be the bad guy and say it - its because DK tanking is ez mode.
Don't stack stamina.
And pretty much that. Stam is good, but stacking stam is bad.
Edited by Nerrf on 4/8/2011 12:18 AM PDT
Ty all, DK tanking might be easy mode as far as AOE goes but again, to each his own and ive grown to like my dk a lot i'll follow advice above as i change my 333 gear into 346, and i guess the stam boost from random will suffice again thx for the advice
Did the best tank in the game just call us e z mode? Anyway, yea stack mastery. Reforge mitigation ( or crit/haste/etc) to mastery. Reforge mitigation (and etc.) to expertise until soft cap. Also rune of sword shattering is better for us now than stone skin gargoyle
Just forge your stats as listed below while balancing your parry and dodge ratings with each other so long as you don't miss the opportunity to forge into mastery.
Example 1: you have hit/expertise and mastery on a piece- forge the hit/expertise into dodge or parry which ever is lower in RATING (not percent)
Example 2: you have hit/expertise and parry/dodge on a piece - forge the hit/expertise into mastery regardless of how much avoidance is unbalanced.
Example 3: you have hit and expertise on a piece (is likely a dps piece and if so should be swapped out. In the event that it is not a DPS piece you should still swap it out once you get one with Dodge and/or Parry And/or Mastery)- vendor this piece or DE it. In the event that it happens to be better than what you had before (which is unlikely, meaning you had a lower ilevel DPS piece) forge the hit into mastery.
Example 4: you have dodge/parry and mastery on a piece - Check your avoidance ratings. If the piece has dodge (or parry) and you have a lower dodge (or parry) rating leave the piece alone. if you have more dodge (or parry) rating and its dodge (or parry) on the piece then forge the dodge (or parry) into parry (or dodge).
Example 5: Dodge And Parry on the piece - check your avoidance (dodge and parry) ratings. Which ever is higher forge that stat into mastery. If they are balanced (between 1-20 rating difference) then forge the Parry into Mastery (since you can dodge without a weapon but you cannot parry without one hence if you get disarmed [currently not available from a boss] you can still use the avoidance) else forge the (+20 more than parry rating) Dodge into mastery.
Example 6: Any stat that is NOT dodge/parry AND has mastery (is likely a dps piece and if so should be swapped out. in the event that it is not you should still swap it out) If it is an upgrade to what you had (which is unlikely, meaning you had a lower ilevel DPS piece)- check your avoidance (dodge and parry) ratings. Which ever is lower forge off the non mastery stat into that lower rating (dodge or parry) stat.
Example 7: Any stat that is not dodge/parry/mastery AND has hit/expertise as well (is a dps piece and should be swapped out) In the event that it is better than what you had (which is unlikely, meaning you had a lower ilevel DPS piece) : forge off the NON- hit/expertise stat into mastery.
Example 8: If the stats are Crit and Haste its a dps piece and should be swapped out. In the event this piece is an upgrade from what you had (which is unlikely, meaning you had a lower ilevel DPS piece) then: forge off the Crit into Mastery.
The reason for these stat changes in these orders is because:
1: Currently mastery has no diminishing returns and therefore is why we can stack it without paying attention to the rating we currently have.
2: The application vengeance stacking (passive ability as a tank when you gain attack power by taking damage) is still applied even if you take (mastery reduced) damage vs avoiding an attack entirely is the second reason to stack mastery. If you take even 20 damage you stack at least 1 point of vengeance. This prevents vengeance from diminishing where as if you avoided an attack and took no damage you will likely loose some vengeance stacking. This may be less important but is still an advantage of mastery vs avoidance. The more vengeance you have the more damage you deal the shorter the fight will be.
This is why mastery is the best stat to stack.
Of course there are always exceptions to the rule. Some fights will be more advantageous to stack avoidance or would be better for one of the tanks to avoid attacks rather than reduce the damage. In this case you would simply look at your Dodge and Parry RATINGS and then check the stat on the piece of gear. Which ever avoidance stat is lower forge the other stat INTO that lower stat regardless of what the other stat is (including mastery). However, the same rules apply to the above listed DPS pieces.
If its a DPS piece (matches one of the criteria I listed in one of the examples OR the socket bonus is not listed as either: Dodge, Parry, Stamina or Mastery [has Mastery as its socket bonus AND does NOT have crit OR haste on the piece at all as a non-reforged stat] it is considered a DPS priority piece) then you should replace that piece as soon as possible with one that has one of the listed socket bonuses AND has two of the available three tanking stats on it (dodge and/or parry and/or mastery)
Edited by Kìllèr on 4/13/2011 8:20 AM PDT
Gemming and enchanting are pretty simple as well.
Blue Socket: Insert a Mastery/Stamina Gem (Green - called Puissant) of highest available value (currently blue - soon Epic quality)
Red Socket: Insert a Parry/Mastery Gem (Purple - called Defender's) of highest available value (currently blue - soon Epic quality)
Yellow Socket: Insert a Mastery Gem (Yellow - called Fractured) of highest available value (currently blue - soon Epic quality)
Prismatic socket: Insert a Mastery Gem (Yellow - called Fractured) of highest available value (currently blue - soon Epic quality)
Note: Jewelcrafters should always use the Jewelers gem for Mastery (Yellow - called Fractured) with the highest available value and place it in a Yellow or prismatic socket.
This Meta gem is better for spell damage and since you cannot forge into spell damage reduction this gem is suggested:
1: Effulgent Shadowspirit Diamond - 81 stamina / 2% reduces spell damage taken (requires at least 1 red (or purple or green) gem and 1 yellow (or orange or green) gem currently equipped to maintain the bonus)
Or for slightly more physical damage reduction (at most 600 armor worth not to mention diminishing returns):
2: Austere Shadowspirit Diamond - 81 stamina / 2% increased armor value from items (requires at least two yellow (or orange or green) gems currently equipped to maintain the bonus)
This is left up to the user but generally:
Head: Arcanum of the Earthen Ring: 90 Stamina, 35 Dodge Rating
Shoulder: Greater Inscription of Unbreakable Quartz: 75 Stamina, 25 Dodge Rating or
Inscription Enchant: Inscription of the Earth Prince - 195 Stam and 25 Dodge Rating
Cloak: Enchant Cloak – Protection: 250 Armor
Chest: Enchant Chest – Greater Stamina: 75 Stamina or Pearless Stats 20 to all stats (recommended)
Bracer: Enchant Bracer – Dodge: 50 Dodge Rating or LW enchant with 195 stamina
Gloves: Enchant Gloves – Greater Mastery: 65 Mastery Rating
Pants: Charscale Leg Armor: 145 Stamina, 55 Agility (changing to Dodge in 4.2)
Boots: Enchant Boots – Earthen Vitality: 30 Stamina, Movement Speed Increase (recommended) or Enchant Boots - Mastery: 50 Mastery Rating
Weapon: Swordshattering (4% parry and 60% reduced time from Disarm effects) (Recomended) or Spellshattering (4% reduced spell damage taken and 50% silence duration reduction) (depending on the Boss encounter)
if you have enchanting then:
Ring: Enchant Ring – Greater Stamina: 60 Stamina
Note: - Meta Gem: Effulgent Shadowspirit Diamond coupled with Weapon enchant: Runeforge - Spellshattering can give you a slightly better edge on spell damage reduction for a total of +6% on top of any talents, abilities or buffs. This can be hefty considering the amount of unavoidable spell damage you take throughout many fights.
Edited by Kìllèr on 6/23/2011 12:34 PM PDT
85 Night Elf Death Knight
Until today i did not know that the swordshattering 4% didnt count towards DR. After doing some reading i will be re gemming a lot of my gear towards mastery and will now get Meta Gem: Effulgent Shadowspirit Diamond for a slight increase in spell dmg reduction.
The hardest part of being a DK is having a blood shield of 80k and still getting smashed by some spell that hurts. The 2% spell reduction seems to be more effective in a mastery build.
Of all the pages i have read tonight i have made up a few conclusions as to some of the arguements. i reforged and gemmed my gear to try out what i would get if i went for each of the 3 different builds (note these percentages are based on my toons gear and are unbuffed);
went i went mastery heavy, i was at about 20% mastery, 24% avoidance (12/12 dodge/parry) 158k stam and use swordshattering (+4% avoidance) and mastery heavy gems
for the stam build, i was at 13.7% mastery, 25% avoidance (12/13 dodge/parry), 179k stam and use stoneskin gargoyle and stam heavy gems
for an avoidance build i got 13.7% mastery, 38% avoidance (18/20 dodge/parry), 156k stam and use swordshattering (+4% parry) and parry/dodge heavy gems
so you can see that the 4% parry on the weapon added to the Nelf racial (2% chance for mobs to miss, no DR) you can still have a high mastery/high avoidance build.
mastery seems to be the best stat from what i can tell. self healing is more important to dks and ask every raid healer they will tell you the same thing.
the avoidance build did put me over 46% avoidance but then Diminishing returns come into play and it is also completely uncontrollable, whereas mastery is.
raid buffed i can get my blood shield to return 142% of dmg done in health back.
Stam is good only in the sense (other than it giving you more health) that it raises the 7% min return on Death strikes heal which in turn raises the min Blood shield absorb rating but stam should still never be stacked. I wouldnt worry about stam untill your mastery is 20 or higher then you can grab a few stam gems if u can afford it.
6/7 right now with avoidance build. It's also highly favored for Baleroc and Alysrazor hatchlings. I'm logged in Tank gear, just need to swap in/enchant/gem my new shoulders.
Haven't heard any HM DK's saying to switch back to mastery either.
Depends what your running. For 25m raiding I've been favoring double stam trinkets because the bosses hit so freaking hard. I wouldn't gem extra stam or switch to SSG though, the HP gain is to small to make much difference.
Edited by Daciana on 7/26/2011 11:13 AM PDT
Killer provided a detailed explanation.. In a nutshell,
you have 2 options. Either go
Mastery > Stamina >>>>>> Dodge = Parry > Expertise > Hit
Dodge = Parry >>>>>> Stamina > Mastery > Expertise > Hit
If you mix and match avoidance and mastery you will not see optimal results...
The replies here are very good. I have a few comments to add, though. If you are tanking HM FL, you should ignore this advice -- but I do not think you would be posting here if that were the case.
There's a lot of weeping about how avoidance 'penalizes' us since it reduces our damage taken, weakening Death Strike/Blood Shield. I would in fact like to see slightly different Death Strike functionality, but this is generally untrue; avoidance works in concert with Blood Shield, since every hit avoided is another one that does not weaken the shield. On a very abstract level, you can think of your avoidance as improving your Blood Shields by whatever your total % is. So, for example, 33% avoidance is like having a 33% stronger shield (that is, it will be absorbing damage 33% more of the time). Stacking shield is better than letting it time out, so DS at at most 8-second intervals while you have shield left.
The shield is also directly improved by Mastery (always) and Stamina (usually). Avoidance stats have diminishing returns; Mastery does not. Stamina/maxhealth affects a number of our abilities besides DS, and is generally important to have. This places us in a slightly delicate position of stat balancing. Given how much easier it is to get Parry than Dodge most of the time, my reforging priority is:
As for enchants and gems: Contrary to some earlier posters, I strongly recommend mixing Stamina into anything possible to do so. In general, aim for your Mastery to be 1/10,000th of your total Stamina unbuffed in Blood -- so 170k hp <=> 17 Mastery (about 1600 mastery rating). This isn't a magic number so much as an easily-followed rule of thumb; the math for the actual 'best' is a hot mess, and depends on fight, and I don't want to get into it. This'll keep you close without needing to break out a calculator every time you move to a new boss. If you don't have some very good Stamina trinkets, this may well mean gemming Solids in blue or prismatic slots or using an armor kit over the mastery glove enchant. Before you go that far, regem yellows as Puissants and see how close you are. Explaining blue gems to your healer can be a headache.
Chest : Greater Stamina. (+75 Stamina) Three of the five stats from Peerless are worthless to you and 20 Strength is not worth the 55 additional Stamina.
Boots : Earthen Vitality. The move speed bonus, small as it is, is essential, even if you have Glyph of Bone Shield, and more than worth the 14 lost stamina from an armor kit.
Food : Have it and use it. I highly recommend you level cooking and learn at least these three recipes : Lavascale Minestrone (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=88025), your best food; Mushroom-Sauce Mudfish (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=88031) for second-best; and one of Grilled Dragon (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=88020), Crocolisk Au Gratin (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=88014) or Beer-Basted Crocolisk (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=88005) as a throwaway, since the meat is so easy to farm for either and the non-Stamina part isn't a complete waste. The third is my preference since it's the only one that improves survivability, and it buffs from MotW/BoK.
Edited by Hemophage on 7/26/2011 12:35 PM PDT
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