Ask the Devs - Answers #5: Achievements

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85 Worgen Mage
6615
04/13/2011 01:43 PMPosted by Pinkunicorn
It will also take most people years to obtain "The Bloodthirsty"; does that mean that we should be rewarded with 500 HKs a day for doing our daily battleground?

I was asking about the discrepancy between AV rep gains vs. WG and AB rep gains. I wan't asking for absurd amounts of HK for doing nothing.

Its interesting you bring up the "the bloodthirsty" title. In the games current state I think it would be much easier to grind that out then the WG/AB reps.
Again its a lot different playing on the "losing" faction for years. I'm happy you found this cheevo it be so easy tho :) I wish I had your luck.
Edited by Battlemaster on 4/13/2011 2:01 PM PDT
90 Night Elf Druid
13175
04/13/2011 01:40 PMPosted by Battlemaster
While those achievements are pretty grindy, we think they're okay for their purpose.


Is it "okay" with blizzard that it will take literally years for most players to get exalted with WG and AB, but it only takes a few good holiday weekends to get exalted with AV? Why the discrepancy?
Also, I'm having trouble understanding the "cons" of making it even slightly easier to get to exalted with these factions.


I missed this. ^^^^ this. It would be nice for that to be explained a little. I'm sure there's a reason, but I have NO idea what it is.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
5640
I understand why blizz doesn't want achieve points to buy anything and I totally agree with it. I've got enough to keep up with as it is. Having said that... I'd really like to be able to use the points to buy completely pointless things like non-combat pets and what not. I am a woman of frivolous tastes.
87 Undead Mage
7205

Its interesting you bring up the "the bloodthirsty" title. In the games current state I think it would be much easier to grind that out then the WG/AB reps.


Way to exaggerate.. my first char did all 3 exalted and only has 35,000 HK total.. a huge amount of that came from playing organized AV to try to grind pvp ranks.. probably less than 20,000 HK are from WSG/AB to exalted.

And yes I know you said 'current state', but it can't be THAT different. a factor of 2 at most.
Edited by Strobelight on 4/13/2011 2:02 PM PDT
97 Orc Warrior
7755
Any chance you could consider a unique ground mount for some high number of HKs (maybe 150k or 200k)? I have no interest in farming another 150k HKs for Bloodthirsty when I already have Conqueror, Champion and "of the Horde" (and I'd get Battlemaster before 250k).
85 Worgen Mage
6615
04/13/2011 02:01 PMPosted by Strobelight
And yes I know you said 'current state', but it can't be THAT different. a factor of 2 at most.

it is "that" different. they took out Marks of Honor...... read post #42
100 Night Elf Druid
16995
04/13/2011 01:55 PMPosted by Battlemaster
It will also take most people years to obtain "The Bloodthirsty"; does that mean that we should be rewarded with 500 HKs a day for doing our daily battleground?

I was asking about the discrepancy between AV rep gains vs. WG and AB rep gains. I wan't asking for absurd amounts of HK for doing nothing.

Its interesting you bring up the "the bloodthirsty" title. In the games current state I think it would be much easier to grind that out then the WG/AB reps.
Again its a lot different playing on the "losing" faction for years. I'm happy you found this cheevo it be so easy tho :) I wish I had your luck.


Luck had nothing to do with it. I wanted it bad enough, so I put forth the work to get it. I did WSG first, because I knew it was the harder one. I knew it would take more games, and I wanted the hardest part out of the way, so I could focus on Arathi, where you are assured to get 'some' points. Bear in mind that I did the vast majority of the two grinds before the 10% rep bonuses of Cataclysm, as well.

Honestly, I enjoy the hell out of the two BGs, as opposed to the larger 40s; in a 10 or 15 if you are playing at a high skill level, you can fight and win against immense odds; in Alterac or Isle of Conquest, you just cannot be where there are a high population of enemies without having players at your side.

If you want to make it "easier", you could get together a battleground premade with the 'Preform AV Enabler' addon or perhaps delve into Rated BGs, with AB being added in 4.1 you could easily get honor, conquest points, rating, HKs, and rep all at once if you can find a reliable group.
85 Undead Warrior
4800
Are the previous ask a dev threads archived or still visable some where?
70 Worgen Warrior
430
04/13/2011 01:30 PMPosted by Zarhym
Depends what metas you're talking about. They certainly are required for The Justicar.

We were referring specifically to metas like Master of Arathi Basin. They are on the meta achievements for Justicar and the Conqueror. While those achievements are pretty grindy, we think they're okay for their purpose.


Honestly you need to elaborate more this doesn't really explain much into your reasoning.

Post #42 does a good job in explaining how the rep grind is even tougher than it used to be, it's ridiculous.
100 Worgen Druid
18300
04/13/2011 01:42 PMPosted by Mantaur
I don't see how adding these mounts (and titles) back hurts anyone. It actually benefits a lot more of the playerbase, including players who switched mains. I even bet many of the players who state "no" to this have switched mains and don't even have these mounts or titles and would take their time and actually get these achievements if they were implemented back. And again, they will forever have the achievements with the impressive dates to flaunt to the masses. I wish I did haha.


It doesn't hurt anyone. That is why i find it so silly when somebody tries to argue otherwise.


In the same vein that more character customization is a good idea, having some things not accessible anymore is a good idea. It creates uniqueness for players, which allows them to have a more personal connection with their character, increasing their desire for the game.

And trust me, I know the feeling of being shafted by Immortal.
Edited by Shanic on 4/13/2011 2:16 PM PDT
60 Night Elf Druid
4235
I find it interesting that Blizzard is okay with grindy PVP mechanics but constantly nerfs grindy PVE mechanics in order to make them more "fun." I guess the key difference is that PVE achievements that used to be grindy are tied to things that offer some sort of real advantage, where PVP achievements that are grindy are purely for show.
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04/13/2011 02:12 PMPosted by Grimmjøw
Post #42 does a good job in explaining how the rep grind is even tougher than it used to be, it's ridiculous.

At risk of shooting myself in the foot, it's probably also worth mentioning that back before BC, you required reputation with the battleground factions in order to buy their gear. Raising your Silverwing rep would earn you rewards that other players without that level of rep couldn't get. They weren't especially great though. About the same level gear as you would get out of dungeoning and early raiding. The main reward for being Exalted was the opportunity to wear the tabard. Actually, that was the only reward. So even then it was still to a certain extent, just "for show."
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04/13/2011 02:08 PMPosted by Redoing
Are the previous ask a dev threads archived or still visable some where?

Check the bottom of the first post.
Edited by Lorinall on 4/13/2011 2:20 PM PDT
100 Gnome Mage
18300
Just some thoughts on a few of the responses.

Q: When will achievements finally be awarded account-wide?
    A: Making achievements Battle.net account-wide is something we'd like to do, but it's not a goal we could provide a current timetable for.


Obviously not every achievement should be account-wide. I'm a little torn on if a new character made tomorrow should automatically get my Hand of A'dal title. I would almost have to say that some achievements like that, should not share that reward across the account. However, where the reward is a mount or pet, make them like the Baby Blizzard Bear and account bound that don't get consumed when learning on a character.

Q: Will we ever be able to spend our achievement points on something? Or will there be a feature where it will be required to have x amount of points?[/ul]


I like the response here, but my one comment to make is I wish people would stop looking at achievement points as a currency like other things. Look at it more as experience points built up over time. If anything, we could see something that is "Earn 5000 achievement points and get X." Then have different levels like every 2500 points or so and give our a title, mount, pet, tabard, etc.

04/13/2011 09:24 AMPosted by Bashiok
Q: Guild Achievements related with professions are much more difficult than other Guild Achievements. Is there any plan to give a chance for small guilds to get those Achievement rewards?


Probably should have picked an extra question since this is getting addressed in 4.1. More or less a waste of space/time to respond to something that is already addressed in patch notes.

04/13/2011 09:24 AMPosted by Bashiok
Q: I'd like to see the achievement system become more active and dynamic, will we ever see achievements that unlock quest lines, dungeons, or other Easter egg content as a reward for dedicating so much time in Azeroth?


Why not just more easter eggs in general? How about a dungeon that has a hidden room where you can walk through the wall, but the section isn't displayed on the mini-map or zone map.

Q: Will we ever see a "search" feature in the achievement window? That's a lot of achievements to search through if you're looking for something specific.
    A: Yes, this is something we plan on doing. The current UI makes it hard to find specific achievements. There are several places in the current UI that could benefit from a smarter search.


A lot of issues would be fixed if the Achievement window UI had a more in-depth cascading tree. Instead of taking say all the Lich King raid achievements and put them in one section, break them out by major content sections (like they were for a short time). Have Naxx, Ulduar, ICC, and Dragon Raids all as sub options under Lich King Raid. Perhaps go one more and break out 10 and 25 man versions...or at least give the option to only display certain achievements. Definitely a massive area of improvement that I'm looking forward to.

Q: Will you ever bring back the mounts for achievements that were removed (Naxx Glory runs) as you didn't remove the later mounts? – Joyia (North America/ANZ)
    A: This is a tough one...


This one has me split as well. Let people feel special for those early mounts for blasting through the easy content fast. Leaving the later mounts in the game was a nice gesture, especially for those that may RP and always wanted a frostwyrm to fly on but never raided in Wrath. As a mount collector I would say YES PLEASE in bringing them back, but as a raider I can say I understand if they don't. I do find having the mounts in those other raids are a great incentive for guilds to go back and knock out achievements for old zones.

04/13/2011 09:24 AMPosted by Bashiok
Q: The Achievement reward for “What A Long, Strange Trip It's Been” still remains as a purple proto-drake, which is a WotLK model. How about coordinating the color of the reward upon each expansion theme? – Shory (Korea)


It would be nice to see some additional holidays added in, or perhaps a unique festival that is an annual event you need to do to collect a new mount. Look back at the Summer Olympics event that was held were we got a pet. Why not do something like that and award the new mount for those that have the holiday meta completed. As a side note, it would be nice if some of these one week holidays got lengthened quite a bit or additional events added in. I'm not saying flood the game with them, but the periods of 2-3 months with nothing special going on seems boring. We are in one of those periods now, but soon we'll have 2 events back to back and then nothing again for a bit.
Edited by Flayre on 4/13/2011 2:19 PM PDT
85 Worgen Mage
6615
@ Pinkunicorn - It sounds like you had it all well planned out, good job :)
but again..... i was wondering why there was such a huge discrepancy in the rate at witch you can gain AV rep Vs. WG and AB rep. I want to know because based on the fact that i didn't even need to try to hit exalted with AV (I believe i was exalted or close to exalted when I first hit level 80 in WotLK) I thought a casual player like myself might have a chance at the Title. Obviously there is a huge discrepancy between AV vs. WG and AB rep. gain rates, I was just wondering why.
Edited by Battlemaster on 4/13/2011 2:22 PM PDT
60 Night Elf Druid
4235
In my opinion, bring back all of the special mounts and special titles (mounts more importantly) for removed PVE achievements. It would as another poster said put it more in line with PVP achievements.

The only one that should be left untouched is Black Qiraji Resonating Crystal. Everybody knew from day one that one would be about 1 or 2 per realm.
85 Dwarf Hunter
1320
04/13/2011 01:30 PMPosted by Zarhym
Depends what metas you're talking about. They certainly are required for The Justicar.

We were referring specifically to metas like Master of Arathi Basin. They are on the meta achievements for Justicar and the Conqueror. While those achievements are pretty grindy, we think they're okay for their purpose.


Let's look at it from the other direction. Why is it so easy to get rep in Alterac Valley? I think this is where the confusion comes from. Why should there be such a big discrepancy between the BGs?

I know that if the total estimated amount of time to get all 3 BG reps up stayed the same, but the time to get each rep was balanced evenly between the 3 BGs, I'd be satisfied with that.
85 Tauren Death Knight
10315
@ Pinkunicorn - It sounds like you had it all well planned out, good job :)
but again..... i was wondering why there was such a huge discrepancy in the rate at witch you can gain AV rep Vs. WG and AB rep. I want to know because based on the fact that i didn't even need to try to hit exalted with AV (I believe i was exalted or close to exalted when I first hit level 80 in WotLK) I thought a casual player like myself might have a chance at the Title. Obviously there is a huge discrepancy between AV vs. WG and AB rep. gain rates, I was just wondering why.
As stupid as this may seem, it would probably be due to factors that existed long before Burning crusade.


You used to be able to turn in marks for reputation with the two factions in Vanilla and the like, but with AV, the games there lasted so long that the mark system wouldn't be able to cater to that-so they added several sources of rep in the battleground itself.

fast forward to now with all the changes over the years, and there you have it,
85 Worgen Mage
6615
Let's look at it from the other direction. Why is it so easy to get rep in Alterac Valley? I think this is where the confusion comes from. Why should there be such a big discrepancy between the BGs?

I know that if the total estimated amount of time to get all 3 BG reps up stayed the same, but the time to get each rep was balanced evenly between the 3 BGs, I'd be satisfied with that.

Exactly.
If the problem is that I'm not "hardcore" enough to get the title, thats fine, i dont claim to be hardcore. But why then did I have 1/3rd of the cheevo done before hitting max level?
60 Night Elf Druid
4235
@ Pinkunicorn - It sounds like you had it all well planned out, good job :)
but again..... i was wondering why there was such a huge discrepancy in the rate at witch you can gain AV rep Vs. WG and AB rep. I want to know because based on the fact that i didn't even need to try to hit exalted with AV (I believe i was exalted or close to exalted when I first hit level 80 in WotLK) I thought a casual player like myself might have a chance at the Title. Obviously there is a huge discrepancy between AV vs. WG and AB rep. gain rates, I was just wondering why.


Main reason why AV gives more rep than the others has to do with its original hours-long objective-based incarnation. Certain NPCs will interact with you differently if you have a different reputation level. For example, only players of X reputation or higher can call in an air strike, provided the gryphons/wyverns have been given enough turn-ins. Thus, having a high reputation had a direct impact on your ability to kill the enemy. Thus, Blizzard wanted players to have a decent method to raise their reputation.

Today all of those objectives are useless and may as well be removed from the game. Although the reputation could theoretically be used for any of the previous methods, it would require the cooperation of the entire team rather than everybody rush to the end and "kill the guy."

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You used to be able to turn in marks for reputation with the two factions in Vanilla and the like, but with AV, the games there lasted so long that the mark system wouldn't be able to cater to that-so they added several sources of rep in the battleground itself.

fast forward to now with all the changes over the years, and there you have it,

This too. AV was ruined when Blizzard changed it to make it distribute an even number of Marks of Honor as the other BGs, (this was after Marks of Honor no longer gave reputation, but were still used as a form of currency). Now that they don't exist at all it's just, well, sad.
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To everybody quoting me, don't be confused by my Ambassador title in my armory page. I'm just wearing that one instead of my regular Justicar.
Edited by Lorinall on 4/13/2011 2:34 PM PDT
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