Ask the Devs - Answers #5: Achievements

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85 Worgen Mage
11870
04/14/2011 12:15 PMPosted by Natendall
If people on the other side of the argument want to bring back the Black and Plagued Proto Drakes, then why not bring back all the mounts for Gladiator over the seasons and make it available to everyone that, say, gets a 1500+ rating in arenas and RBGs?

Well, they did bring the Vanilla titles back. RBGs are also supposed to be getting ground mounts as their Gladiator-equivalent rewards, too. Could they be the original Vanilla mounts? You never knoooow...!

You think that you're being sarcastic, talking about retired Gladiator mounts making a return, but what you're saying wouldn't actually be that much more of a stretch. So don't jinx it, because you never knoooow...! :3
Edited by Raymeo on 4/15/2011 3:29 AM PDT
82 Night Elf Druid
0
OMG concern with consistency has nothing to do with it. That's just the sort of faux-logic teenagers use to try to outsmart their parents and get what they want.

Blizz, I demand if you reintroduce the Plagued Proto-drake, you rework the couple of Naxx boss fights that absolutely require multiple people. I'm a Solo'ing old content type player, and it's not fair that certain raid fights aren't soloable, thereby making certain raid rewards unavailable to my playstyle. It's really not fair, and everyone deserves the same opportunity to experience the game in their own way. Don't you think? /sarcasm

I hope that whoever is considering this issue ignores the fake argument and sticks to the core; Do you want to take one of the (small) handful of raiding mounts that actually indicated some skill and dedication, and make it into one of the easiest mounts to obtain (far easier than a 5man red protodrake)?

I blame the release of ToC for this quandry, by the way. I know at the time of 3.2, you looked at the numbers and said not enough of the raiding population had received the rusted and ironbound, so you allowed them to stick around while you released the next tier, and the next. And then you're pretty much committed to having changed raid achievement mounts from a gladiator type mount for conquering the top tier to something that can be 'earned' from a bought run, or getting your alt/non-raider boosted through old content.

So the kids feel entitled to them and there's a couple they can't have, therefore the argument 'oh but it's not consistent, that's all we really care about'. Well, the first two are the only two that are consistent; Please keep them rare, as it's impossible to earn one now.
100 Human Death Knight
14710
I also offer some type of compromise;

Bottom line, Mounts should never been removed in the first place. It just seems like a huge waste of artwork and time. The new Naxx mounts just have their name changed so people can differentiate when they got them more easily.

Black -> Obsidian or Onyx Proto-Drake
Plagued -> Blighted or Diseased Proto-Drake

Perhaps you could even change the originals to "legendary" quality as well.

As for Gladiator mounts, well I am on the fense. As I said, I hate seeing mounts removed permanently but these just feel different. Perhaps they can change the rewards for the Mount Eligible Arena PvP'rs to choose any one gladiator mount they prefer (with out Brutal, Vengeful, Deadly titles).



90 Orc Shaman
17940
04/15/2011 08:38 AMPosted by Mantaur
It just seems like a huge waste of artwork and time.

That's silly, they're so loved an envied there have been tons of these
"please please please"
"no i earned it"
"it's not fair"
threads, and just for 2 particular colors of a mount that exists in, what, 7 other colors?

By that logic every mount that ever existed should be available on a vendor in Stormwind and Org.

And may I just point out how (also) silly
04/15/2011 08:38 AMPosted by Mantaur
I hate seeing mounts removed

is, coming from someone with only 18 mounts personally, none of which are from raid meta-achievements? I mean, I realize it's somewhat ad hominem, but you have quite alot of achievement points. You obviously care about this issue, but why out of 100 mounts out there for you to get, are these two your mission, instead of actually obtaining one that's in-game? I really honestly don't get it.

At least your most recent post acknowledges that people wanting some recognition for old-timey achieving are people too, so thank you.
Edited by Mnevis on 4/15/2011 10:27 AM PDT
100 Human Death Knight
14710
...is, coming from someone with only 18 mounts personally, none of which are from raid meta-achievements? I mean, I realize it's somewhat ad hominem, but you have quite alot of achievement points. You obviously care about this issue, but why out of 100 mounts out there for you to get, are these two your mission, instead of actually obtaining one that's in-game? I really honestly don't get it.

At least your most recent post acknowledges that people wanting some recognition for old-timey achieving are people too, so thank you.


I am very VERY picky on which mounts I will train on my DK. Call me a RP nerd, but Mantaur only rides drakes. I have...

Bronze/Red/Black Common Drake
Bronze(TL)/Blue/Green/Red/Violet Proto-Drake
All the Nether drakes

I also had to get a few specific class mounts in order to actually quest/pvp (deathcharger, undead gryphon, and seahorse)

85 Tauren Druid
0
Q: Will you ever bring back the mounts for achievements that were removed (Naxx Glory runs) as you didn't remove the later mounts? – Joyia (North America/ANZ)
A: This is a tough one. On the one hand, we know there are a lot of players who would still like to get their hands on these mounts. On the other hand, we were pretty clear that they would only be available for a limited time, and we hate to go back on our word because we know some groups went through heroic efforts to get them before the door closed. This is the kind of thing that is not set in stone and player feedback might eventually convince us to change our minds.

Please don't do it. Please. Please please.


I have 2 agree with you. these mounts where offered 4 a limited amount of time, and they should stay that way. making them available to every 1 all of a sudden would really insult every 1 who went through hell 2 get them while they where available, and this is coming from some one who missed this event.
If blizzard ends up bringing mounts back from previous events, at least give them a re-skin and rename. that way, people who missed the event get a chance to get a related mount and the players who already got the mount can feel still feel proud that they hve achieved something of note.
100 Human Death Knight
14710
I have 2 agree with you. these mounts where offered 4 a limited amount of time, and they should stay that way. making them available to every 1 all of a sudden would really insult every 1 who went through hell 2 get them while they where available, and this is coming from some one who missed this event.
If blizzard ends up bringing mounts back from previous events, at least give them a re-skin and rename. that way, people who missed the event get a chance to get a related mount and the players who already got the mount can feel still feel proud that they hve achieved something of note.


A re-skin will require time, money and resources. I think a renaming would be a much easier option.

Anyways from the looks of it, most people are pro reinstatement. Now it is just a matter of when...hopefully sooner than later.
85 Tauren Druid
0
I have 2 agree with you. these mounts where offered 4 a limited amount of time, and they should stay that way. making them available to every 1 all of a sudden would really insult every 1 who went through hell 2 get them while they where available, and this is coming from some one who missed this event.
If blizzard ends up bringing mounts back from previous events, at least give them a re-skin and rename. that way, people who missed the event get a chance to get a related mount and the players who already got the mount can feel still feel proud that they hve achieved something of note.


A re-skin will require time, money and resources. I think a renaming would be a much easier option.

Anyways from the looks of it, most people are pro reinstatement. Now it is just a matter of when...hopefully sooner than later.


so do a lot of things, but just renaming a mount isn't going 2 cut it. I may sound shallow, but who cares if the name's r different, if they look the same then there's nothing unique about it. u hve 2 remember that these mounts are vanity mounts, if they don't look unique then it completely defeats the purpose of remaking the mounts in the 1st place.

Furthermore, re skinning something is easy, it doesn't take massive resources or all nighters hours to complete. any descent programmer could do a re-skin with ease. of course, u can't do a re-skin without changing the name. the 2 go hand-in-hand.

either u do something right, or u don't do it at all!
100 Troll Hunter
12090
04/15/2011 04:35 AMPosted by Bern
OMG concern with consistency has nothing to do with it. That's just the sort of faux-logic teenagers use to try to outsmart their parents and get what they want.


I have been moved by your flawless logic and perfectly executed argument. Well done sir. /sarcasm

There are only 2 arguments against the reinstatement of the Naxx drakes, and both of them are terrible.

1) LOL I WOULD HAVE LIKED TO GO TO WOODSTOCK BUT CAN'T NOW 2 BAD. And/or BLACK BATTLE TANK PLZ. And/or EVERY ARENA SEASON MOUNT PLZ.

Woodstock is no longer happening, Naxx still is. It has not been removed. What's happening now is like if Woodstock is still going on, but anybody who attends it today that wasn't there in 1969 would be required to wear earplugs so they can't hear the music, which would be the only reason they'd attend in the first place.

Similarly, the gates are open on all servers, the war effort is over. The same can be said for past arena seasons, therefore the same argument applies.


2) I worked hard for that drake and I don't want my achivement cheapened. (I declined to put this argument in all caps because it's not nearly as stupid.)

Your achievement won't be cheapened. You'll still have that little timestamp on your achievement that indicates you worked hard for it instead of facerolling. That not good enough for you? How about the fact you've been able to flaunt the mount for exactly 2 years today? Still not good enough? Then you need to grow up.

Look at the way things are now. Blizz has come out and clearly said they no longer have any problems with "drake farming". That particular issue is off the table. This means that people now who work as hard as you did then will only be able to show off their mount until the next major content patch hits, which is only a few months, not 2 years.



There is only one major argument in favor of the drake's reinstatement, and nobody has been able to argue against it as of yet. It has nothing to do with fairness or anything, it's more about consistancy. It's simply that given that Blizzard has now decided that "drake farming" is ok, what reason is there for this policy to not be retroactively applied to the Naxx drakes?


I'm just going to keep on quoting myself to make it more obvious that people who want to keep the protodrakes out of the game justify their points using flawed logic, and to remind these folks that if they want their position to be taken seriously, they must answer these objections.
90 Orc Shaman
17940
04/15/2011 10:36 AMPosted by Mantaur
Call me a RP nerd, but Mantaur only rides drakes.

Well OK that sort of makes sense of at least a part of part of my question.
So this is more or less accurate?

Dear Alextrasza,

Salutations, Your Majesty, and Blessings be upon the Red Dragonflight.

I am Mantaur, your lowly servant; you may remember me from some quests I did a couple years ago in your realm? Well let me get to the point, I don't want to waste your majesty's time. During the war against Malygos, in the year leading up to the confrontation with Lich King, many champions of the mortal races aided the Red Dragonflight in ending Malygos' madness. They also bested Sartharion and Kel'thuzad there in Dragonblight. Those who took the lead in this effort, you bestowed with generous gifts of Proto-Drake steeds, as you well know.

Now I know you said two years ago that the war effort was shifting to the corrupted prison of Ulduar, and that you felt Malygos, Sartharion, and Kel'thuzad had been beaten sufficiently, and therefore would not be sending out future gifts once it had. Those champions who had recieved them were to feel honored, and they were. You said to seek out Brann Bronzebeard, for he had some rescue Proto-Drakes for champions of the fight to cleanse Ulduar of that dastardly old god, Yogg-Saron.

Well, your majesty, I hadn't at that time gotten around to defeating Malygos or clearing out the scourge of Naxxaramas, but you see, I can't go around heroing all the time, I have bills to pay and like, other stuff to do. And Brann is still rewarding adventurers in Ulduar to this day. So it's not consistent, is what I'm saying, your Excellence. Since Brann still is, you really have no right to say 'No more presents from Alextrasza'.

I hope you'll take this into consideration, because I heard you might have access to a few more Proto-Drakes, and Mantaur really likes riding drakes. In fact, I ride nothing else. That's how much I love the Dragonkin! <3

Well, anyways, I won't waste any more of your time, but I hope you come around and see it my way. Please!

May the Dragonflight live forever,
Sincerely,
Mantaur


100 Troll Hunter
12090
A for effort but an F overall.
Alextrasza is not Blizzard :P

It would be more appropriate to perhaps say that the Titans have recently decreed that it is no longer permissable for people in the position of Alextrasza or Brann to discontinue giving these drakes to adventurers, and that Brann and Darion Mograine are heeding this decree. Then perhaps ask why she does not :P
Edited by Rastaban on 4/15/2011 1:54 PM PDT
60 Night Elf Druid
4150
04/15/2011 04:35 AMPosted by Bern
OMG concern with consistency has nothing to do with it. That's just the sort of faux-logic teenagers use to try to outsmart their parents and get what they want.


Correction: That's just the sort of logic teenagers use to point out when their parents are making rules for the sake of making rules in order to preserve their perceived position of absolute decision-maker and end up getting shot down anyway by arguments with the same level of validity as "because I told you so." Consistency matters. Try being inconsistent to a teenager and see if they don't resent you for it.
90 Orc Shaman
17940
A for effort but an F overall.
Alextrasza is not Blizzard :P

It would be more appropriate to perhaps say that the Titans have recently decreed that it is no longer permissable for people in the position of Alextrasza or Brann to discontinue giving these drakes to adventurers, and that Brann and Darion Mograine are heeding this decree. Then perhaps ask why she does not :P


I respectfully disagree, to both your scenario's adherence to the RL facts, and in-game universe plausibility.

I suppose I could RP your scenario's letter, but it would be vastly more ludicrous. Where does Mantaur get Eonar's address to report on Alextrasza's defiance?

100 Troll Hunter
12090
A for effort but an F overall.
Alextrasza is not Blizzard :P

It would be more appropriate to perhaps say that the Titans have recently decreed that it is no longer permissable for people in the position of Alextrasza or Brann to discontinue giving these drakes to adventurers, and that Brann and Darion Mograine are heeding this decree. Then perhaps ask why she does not :P


I respectfully disagree, to both your scenario's adherence to the RL facts, and in-game universe plausibility.

I suppose I could RP your scenario's letter, but it would be vastly more ludicrous. Where does Mantaur get Eonar's address to report on Alextrasza's defiance?


mymindisfullof@@@*.jpg
100 Human Death Knight
14710
Played about 10 hours this weekend. Saw ZERO black proto-drakes, and I can't even recall seeing a plagued one either.

So it is my conclusion, that people with them likely do not really love them like most of the people who do not have one. I think that is a valid concern.
90 Orc Shaman
17940
Make a toon on NZ and I'll ride around on mine (like I do every day). You can even /spit on me if you like, since that's what makes you happy apparently.

Then these elitist, complain that other people are riding "their" mounts. Honestly that type of thought alone should be reason enough to reinstate them and /spit in their faces


lulz
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