Cloak & Dagger Compendium: Rogue Omnibus 4.3

85 Undead Rogue
7910
Also, great job. Did I mention I would totally see A Tale of Three Rogues: Or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Blade?
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
Vex
0
04/17/2011 03:56 PMPosted by Haileaus
Also, great job. Did I mention I would totally see A Tale of Three Rogues: Or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Blade?


Many, many thanks.

That was the the original name for this project, I decided I loved it too much to let it go, and so, Chapter I was born.
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85 Undead Rogue
7910
All DoTs have been updated with 4.0 that if you refresh with less than 1 tick left the last tick is added to the duration of the next. So if you refresh Rupture with more than 2 seconds left, you lose the last tick. Similarly, if you refresh Recuperate with more than 3 seconds left, you lose that last tick. But, if you refresh between the second to last and last tick it gets tacked onto the next. Such that it makes it easier to have continuous uptime. It also helps rogues in times of high energy we don't have to wait those full 2 seconds gaining 20+ energy and risk capping out, we can refresh and not waste any of our DoTs.


Hmm, I did not know that...so how exactly does it work, do I get the energy as soon as I reapply the buff? And does it always do the subsequent tick or is it only with 1 left?
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
Vex
0
04/17/2011 03:58 PMPosted by Haileaus
All DoTs have been updated with 4.0 that if you refresh with less than 1 tick left the last tick is added to the duration of the next. So if you refresh Rupture with more than 2 seconds left, you lose the last tick. Similarly, if you refresh Recuperate with more than 3 seconds left, you lose that last tick. But, if you refresh between the second to last and last tick it gets tacked onto the next. Such that it makes it easier to have continuous uptime. It also helps rogues in times of high energy we don't have to wait those full 2 seconds gaining 20+ energy and risk capping out, we can refresh and not waste any of our DoTs.


Hmm, I did not know that...so how exactly does it work, do I get the energy as soon as I reapply the buff? And does it always do the subsequent tick or is it only with 1 left?


The DoT mechanics changed so that the duration is reset to the new duration PLUS time to next tick and the tick timer is never reset so the next tick will happen at the same time whether you refresh the duration or not.

Regardless of when you refresh the tick timer does not reset (it used to) so any over-time effect will continue along merrily without interruption. If you refresh with more than 1 tick left in it's duration all those ticks from the point you refreshed until expiration are lost and you are now working off the new application plus time remaining on the current tick. If however, you refresh with less than 1 tick left, then you are now working off the new application plus time remaining on the current tick, and again it continues along it's merry without disruption to the tick timer and there have been no 'lost' ticks.
Edited by Caera on 4/17/2011 5:50 PM PDT
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85 Undead Rogue
7910
Thanks! I will update my guide accordingly.
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
Vex
0
04/17/2011 04:07 PMPosted by Haileaus
Thanks! I will update my guide accordingly.


No problem, also thank you, for that suggestion to make the sub rotation a bit clearer. I will work that in on my next update.



04/17/2011 03:50 PMPosted by Sauceboss
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuDtACzKGRs


Must... resist... urge...to.. click...


<_<

...

>_>

...

@_@


Why?!?
Edited by Caera on 4/17/2011 4:12 PM PDT
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85 Goblin Rogue
2910
thank you.
you've answered many of my questions in the past, this is great.
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
Vex
0
thank you.
you've answered many of my questions in the past, this is great.


You're welcome as always. I'll make my, what I feel is one, obligatory plug.

/shamelessselfpromotion

Everyone feel free to vote sticky, and remember hitting the 'like' button only makes that more likely to happen

/endshamelessselfpromotion

Edit: I promise to not do that again.
Edited by Caera on 4/17/2011 4:29 PM PDT
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85 Goblin Rogue
2910
Haha done ;)
Nothing wrong with that
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85 Undead Rogue
7910
04/17/2011 04:17 PMPosted by Caera
Everyone feel free to vote sticky, and remember hitting the 'like' button only makes that more likely to happen

ok fine. In other news, do you think people will actually read this before posting their questions once it is stickied (assuming it is)?
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
Vex
0
Everyone feel free to vote sticky, and remember hitting the 'like' button only makes that more likely to happen

ok fine. In other news, do you think people will actually read this before posting their questions once it is stickied (assuming it is)?


Who knows. I never actually set out, or intended really at any stage, to write a guide. I've always just kept the answers I make most frequent use of to the common questions saved. This way my answers never lost specificity (when in fact quite the opposite, they gained such) or I didn't leave out pertinent information due to laziness of the day or feeling burnt out answering the same question the umpteenth time.

Rather by accident, or on account of my need to organize, (truly which the world will never know) those answers grew in depth as well as number. Then, to my surprise, it resembled very much this compendium I ended up posting. There might have been a few bare patches in the framework, but those were easy to fill in.

I'm not entirely done either, now that it's here, I do want to flesh out some sections more, maybe put a fireplace in the den. A hot tub on the patio out back. But here it stands a cozy little cottage for all those roguely facts freeloading on my mind's couch.

Any which way, I'll still answer peoples questions as they crop up outside this thread (I'm sure there will still be many), but now I have something concrete I can point to as reference. Rather than sifting through text file hoards, and giving out information piecemeal people can freely browse what I have accumulated at their leisure. Maybe it will help some, maybe it will be mostly passed over. If it helps even one person with their rogue and increases their enjoyment of playing one, I'll feel contented by that.


Why?!?

Because I own one, and you should too


Perhaps I see your point, perhaps I am still traumatized. Perhaps.
Edited by Caera on 4/20/2011 1:16 AM PDT
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60 Night Elf Hunter
330
much love for you caera
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85 Gnome Rogue
3035
great guide caera
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90 Human Rogue
11155
04/17/2011 03:50 PMPosted by Sauceboss
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuDtACzKGRs


as someone of Deutschelander heritage that made me laugh oh so hard.
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100 Night Elf Rogue
10830
04/17/2011 03:50 PMPosted by Sauceboss
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuDtACzKGRs

SB, I'm sending you an invoice for the two minutes of my life I lost because of that.

04/17/2011 03:55 PMPosted by Caera
All DoTs have been updated with 4.0 that if you refresh with less than 1 tick left the last tick is added to the duration of the next.

I can't believe I've never thought to ask this before, but do you know if the Envenom debuff follows this same rule? Or is it a different beast, because it lacks a "tick" per se? Ah, yeah. I think I just answered my own question.
Edited by Rfeann on 4/17/2011 7:16 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
Vex
0
All DoTs have been updated with 4.0 that if you refresh with less than 1 tick left the last tick is added to the duration of the next.

I can't believe I've never thought to ask this before, but do you know if the Envenom debuff follows this same rule? Or is it a different beast, because it lacks a "tick" per se? Ah, yeah. I think I just answered my own question.


The envenom buff is a different beast entirely, so overwriting it costs you whatever was left to it.

Buff and debuffs have one continuous effect for the entire duration, whereas HoTs and DoTs pulse at a set frequency surrounded by periods of inactivity. So if you refresh a HoT/DoT in the lead up to the next pulse, or tick, that last tick isn't lost it's incorporated into the refreshed duration. If there were more ticks to follow, they are lost, like so many socks in a dryer. If you refresh a buff/debuff early all of the remaining duration disappears about as fast as a box of girl guide cookies. So buffs/debuffs don't benefit from the same over-time extension plan, form 3A, application 15C, with the new cover letter on all your TPS reports that HoTs/DoTs do.

So ideally,

HoT/DoT - Refresh @ < 1 tick

Buff/Debuff - Re-apply immediately at durations end
Edited by Caera on 4/17/2011 7:28 PM PDT
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100 Night Elf Rogue
10830
I really wonder whether Blizz will ultimately fix the Rupture CP/writeover issue (which I can't imagine is working exactly as they intended) so the DoT carryover would become more relevant.
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
Vex
0
04/17/2011 07:29 PMPosted by Rfeann
I really wonder whether Blizz will ultimately fix the Rupture CP/writeover issue (which I can't imagine is working exactly as they intended) so the DoT carryover would become more relevant.


Yeah that's the other issue. DoTs scale dynamically with debuffs. So if you put a bleed debuff on a target that is already affected by your rupture, your rupture becomes more effective by the debuffs benefit. If you gain a buff while your target is already ruptured, it remains unaffected, or vice versa. DoTs with a self refresh mechanic actually do scale dynamically with buffs, so long as they're active when the refresh happens, but since assassination must manually refresh rupture it get's a might sticky, since CPs act sort of like a buff depending on if you have more or less of them, as far as the overwrite protection coding on things like rupture go.

Really they could remove the safeguard and let us overwrite rupture any time we want, which as long as you were minding your button-mashery would allow you to refresh rupture when you actually want to without incident, just needing to be a little more mindful you don't get too twitchy on the trigger finger is all. Personally I'm in favour of this solution, since my preference is flexibility over 'safety' locks.
Edited by Caera on 4/17/2011 7:49 PM PDT
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100 Night Elf Rogue
10830
Oh. Oh! I knew about the CP aspect of that; I didn't realize that any buff you might have at the time you apply the first one would also impact the game's logic when it decides whether to "let" you overwrite the DoT. So in theory if I'm under the effects of Heroism when I apply a 1-CP Rupture, I would be unable to overwrite it with a 5-CP Rupture?

Regardless, I agree. If they're going to allow inferior partywide/raidwide buffs to overwrite superior ones -- e.g., a level 16 priest's Power Word: Fortitude overwriting a level 19 priest's (unless... wait... did they revert that change?) -- based on the logic that "people should know better," then they should allow overwriting of superior DoTs with inferior ones based on the same reasoning.
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