Old Wow

90 Gnome Mage
13455
I feel too many people want to disparage 1.0 raiding, when they didn't actually play that content. And that means play it when it was progression content, not that you ran back through it with higher level gear or being carried through by a raid that had already cleared it. So, clearing Molten Core in greens and blues. BWL in tier1 level gear. AQ40 in Tier2 and the original Naxxramus in whatever tier2/2.5 you could get. Not to mention ZG20 and AQ20. That's a lot of boss mechanics, multi-phase fights, movement. Everything we think we have so much of in WoW 4.0 now.

Very few of those were actually 'tank and spank' encounters, until you so outgeared the encounter that you could ignore the mechanics. And usually that happened when you had fully cleared the zone. So, BWL in full Tier2 wasn't very hard anymore.
90 Gnome Death Knight
7395
wtb even easier legendarys now plz?
85 Dwarf Priest
2785
My biggest dissapointment was the ruination of the Wintersaber quest. What used to take 4 hours a day for 3 real time months to complete, now takes 2 hours a day for 3 real time days. That accomplishment required patience and dedication, and players would admire your acomplishment. Now any bozo can do it, and no one cares. Very sad.
85 Draenei Shaman
4225
Having never played vanilla WoW, I can only listen to what others before me have said about it. But it seems like those who pine for Classic WoW are those who felt special because they could suffer through hours of sameness to grind away for an item. The point of a game is to play it and to have fun doing it. Why would you long for the days where you spent hours setting up a 40man raid instead of actually raiding? Why would you long for the days where you did the same old thing month after month to earn an item, rather than actually wielding it? It makes no sense. I applaud you Classic WoWers for having endured that grind, earned those legendaries, felled those dragons. But gaming has changed and people want to play, not wait for hours and grind for months.
90 Human Paladin
9475
My biggest dissapointment was the ruination of the Wintersaber quest. What used to take 4 hours a day for 3 real time months to complete, now takes 2 hours a day for 3 real time days. That accomplishment required patience and dedication, and players would admire your acomplishment.


It took a lack of better things to do in your free time, and players saw it as a sign that you have inordinate amounts of free time on your hands.

Take myself, I have the Salty title. This is something I have no problem being nerfed if Blizzard did it. Why, you might ask? Because all of the fishing I did was just something I did while watching Netflix movies and shows, it's not any kind of a real accomplishment. I threw my line out, moved my mouse over the bobber, and right-clicked when I heard a splash, and then I did this hundred's of times. It's not something I see as worthy of praise and acknowledgement.
85 Night Elf Rogue
4535
i love how ALL of the people in this thread whining about the Old schoolers complaining are comepletely brain dead retards.

get over yourselves. We lost a game that used to be an MMO. we did our time in something that we always had something to do to progress in our game.

while you stand around now in stormwind, we were out there doing quests in Eastern plaguelands for attunement.

while you train and spend 3 gold on a mount, we had to help our friends through some of the toughest, most diffucult dungeons with tanks that had sunder for threat generation for each little piece of their mounts.

while you whine and complain about the next thing that needs a nerf, we were being deathcoiled and feared all day and never touching warlocks- (wait, that wasn't so great, actually.)

while you cry and whine about being bored, having to deal with retard pug players in a random queue system, we went out and found new friends in the world. we learned aout our server's player base.

while you queueu for a BG and go in to get one shotted by every class, we sat in the 40-49 bracket (which i actually think was the 41-50 bracket, i can't remember, its been years.) and would be having fun legitimately and earning titles by the end of the week.

while you guys fly around on flying mounts and complain that it takes five minutes to go from point A to point B in TB, we were spending 2 thousand gold or grinding to Commander for our land mounts.



you see... its not that things were "harder" back then. its the fact that WE never had to deal with whiny ****'s like your new generation. of course there were the guys who complained about anything and everything, but they always quit. ande they would play xbox, and prolly never did pick up an RPG in their life.

you guys have turned this MMO RPG into a "turn on my x-box, matchmaking game, designated servers" because you guys COMPLAIN ABOUT EVERY LITTLE THING.

and you all truly have the nerve to tell US to stop crying about what we miss? seriously?

I'm sorry that we enjoyed how rewarding things felt back then. i'm sorry that we enjoyed crowding around a guy in tier 2 over in ironforge, marveling at how awesome he looked and that he was not only WEARING epics, but was almost completely decked out in them.

the endgame we see now is the ten man endgame you saw back then. and the 20 man endgame, AQ20 and ZG. you could finish your Dungeon set and boom, you felt good. you felt finished, even if there was so much more to do.

these days, if you don't like it, don't worry. it'll be patchedand you can plow through it with no worries at all in the next update.

me? i personally don't even believe in progression anymore. whats the point? wait a couple months, it becomes trivial.

so, why are we upset, seriously? it used to be an RPG. AN RPG. THIS GAME IS NO LONGER AN MMO RPG.
Edited by Llilium on 4/11/2011 11:09 AM PDT
04/08/2011 05:49 PMPosted by Bashiok
(I NEED A FAIRY MONK WITH A MAGIC LOCKPICK?).


Half-Elf Fey Rogue/Shadow Dancer = GG
04/08/2011 04:59 PMPosted by Lukar
No more 40 man raids (yes they were hard to coordinate, but that was what made it challenging and fun and rewarding)


They weren't all that challenging other than in coordination.


They were challenging in the sense that normally half the raiders were carrying the other half.

I remember the fist time someone in our raid got a reliable damage meter. We were kinda shocked to see how some people were under-performing compared to others. Damage done revealed how many people were standing in things they should have been avoiding, and healing meters showed us that a few of the healers were covering for another one who was basically not doing any healing at all.

We actually did raids with only 20-30 people and did just as well as we had done previous weeks with a full roster of 40. $0 man raiding had to many people whose only purpose was to filla raid slot, so 10 and 25 man raiding nicely eliminates those 15 "fluff" players.
85 Night Elf Rogue
4535
04/11/2011 10:57 AMPosted by Kurnea
My biggest dissapointment was the ruination of the Wintersaber quest. What used to take 4 hours a day for 3 real time months to complete, now takes 2 hours a day for 3 real time days. That accomplishment required patience and dedication, and players would admire your acomplishment.


It took a lack of better things to do in your free time, and players saw it as a sign that you have inordinate amounts of free time on your hands.

Take myself, I have the Salty title. This is something I have no problem being nerfed if Blizzard did it. Why, you might ask? Because all of the fishing I did was just something I did while watching Netflix movies and shows, it's not any kind of a real accomplishment. I threw my line out, moved my mouse over the bobber, and right-clicked when I heard a splash, and then I did this hundred's of times. It's not something I see as worthy of praise and acknowledgement.


what does your stupid salty title have to do with the dedication your quoted poster is talking about? you said so yourself, all you did was click and heard a spalsh.

when you saw a wintersabre mount you were like " OH SHI-" back then. throwing a bobber out and waiting for a splash is not = to running around and killing wintersabre all day. once you stopped to watch you netflix and scratch your ass and whatnot, so did your progression
90 Tauren Druid
8390
04/08/2011 05:49 PMPosted by Bashiok
What we've always been trying to do, what WoW has always been about (and to which much of its success is due) is to make an accessible MMO.


Uh, I think you may have lost sight of that goal with Cataclysm. More accessible than vanilla, yes, but Cataclysm was a considerable step backwards from WotLK. So much so that you lost my business.
90 Tauren Druid
8390
i love how ALL of the people in this thread whining about the Old schoolers complaining are comepletely brain dead retards.

get over yourselves. We lost a game that used to be an MMO. we did our time in something that we always had something to do to progress in our game.

<snip>

these days, if you don't like it, don't worry. it'll be patchedand you can plow through it with no worries at all in the next update.

me? i personally don't even believe in progression anymore. whats the point? wait a couple months, it becomes trivial.

so, why are we upset, seriously? it used to be an RPG. AN RPG. THIS GAME IS NO LONGER AN MMO RPG.


Dude. Seriously. It's a game. No need to blow a blood vessel.

Edited for brevity.
Edited by Kanekealikoa on 4/11/2011 11:19 AM PDT
90 Gnome Mage
13455
04/11/2011 10:56 AMPosted by Eeko
Having never played vanilla WoW, I can only listen to what others before me have said about it. But it seems like those who pine for Classic WoW are those who felt special because they could suffer through hours of sameness to grind away for an item. The point of a game is to play it and to have fun doing it. Why would you long for the days where you spent hours setting up a 40man raid instead of actually raiding? Why would you long for the days where you did the same old thing month after month to earn an item, rather than actually wielding it? It makes no sense. I applaud you Classic WoWers for having endured that grind, earned those legendaries, felled those dragons. But gaming has changed and people want to play, not wait for hours and grind for months.


40 man raids did not take hours to setup. No difference really in time required between 25 man / 40 man raid setup. 2-3 tanks, 6-7 healers, 15 dps. Just like now if you want a decent raid you join a decent raiding guild.

Grinding.. you mean like doing therazane daily's for weeks to get shoulder enchants? tabard dungeon grinding for hyjal rep? Killing Cho'gal for 3 months to get tier shoulders for the raid? There's more grinding going on in WoW 4.0 that you realize.. it's just presented as 'daily quests'. Blizzard found a way to formalize the daily grinding they expect you to do.. and make you like it.

85 Night Elf Rogue
4535
i love how ALL of the people in this thread whining about the Old schoolers complaining are comepletely brain dead retards.

get over yourselves. We lost a game that used to be an MMO. we did our time in something that we always had something to do to progress in our game.

<snip>

these days, if you don't like it, don't worry. it'll be patchedand you can plow through it with no worries at all in the next update.

me? i personally don't even believe in progression anymore. whats the point? wait a couple months, it becomes trivial.

so, why are we upset, seriously? it used to be an RPG. AN RPG. THIS GAME IS NO LONGER AN MMO RPG.


Dude. Seriously. It's a game. No need to blow a blood vessel.

Edited for brevity.


it is a game. but wow has standardised MMOs as a market, and not gameplay. there aren't going to be any more games like wow used to be, simply because people know how the money is going to be made. wow was popular because it was a good RPG. just like Dragon age. just like mass effect, just like alot of those games. and it was online.

we don't get any of that back. as long as theres money, companies are going to take that route. as you can see, those companies that don't... well... look at all the promising MMOS that have come out that are free to play now.

Vanilla WoW, in comparison, sucked out loud. Just my opinion. I liked that Wrath was so accessible that gearing alts wasn't hard or a problem, and pugging raids was easy. Cata's taken a step back in that regard, but only a small one. I think this game is vastly better than it was.
90 Gnome Mage
13455
We actually did raids with only 20-30 people and did just as well as we had done previous weeks with a full roster of 40. $0 man raiding had to many people whose only purpose was to filla raid slot, so 10 and 25 man raiding nicely eliminates those 15 "fluff" players.


I don't believe you did progression raiding in MC, BWL, AQ40, Naxx with 20-30 people. (Meaning your first boss kills in prior tier level gear.) Believe it or not, those instances were tuned and had gear checks. Patchwerk with 30 people in tier2 didn't happen.
85 Night Elf Warrior
4150
I understand and respect gaming masochism. But, I think that changing mechanics to be more reasonable and less punishing is an improvement, not a detriment, to games in general. Many of us Original Gamers pine for the days of D&D-based yore when games were seemingly intended to break us down into sobbing masses created by an uncaring necromancer of pain and suffering, or at least didn't try to avoid it. Overcoming all of the obstacles (I CHOOSE NOT TO SHOOT HER WITH THE SILVER ARROW... NOOOOO) was a big part of what gaming (I HAVE 1 LIFE!?), and especially PC gaming (HOW DO I LOAD MOUSE DRIVERS?), were about. But, I feel we're lucky to now be in an age where those ideals (intended or not) are giving way to actual fun, actual challenge, and not fabricating it through high-reach requirements (I NEED A FAIRY MONK WITH A MAGIC LOCKPICK?).

What we've always been trying to do, what WoW has always been about (and to which much of its success is due) is to make an accessible MMO. Anyone that looks back at the game at launch and wishes it was as challenging now as it was then is not aware of the painstaking effort put into making this game accessible as compared to its predecessors. Since release we've refined that intent, eventually evolving the very few masochistic designs WoW actually ever started with, but ideally still offering those same prestige goals that give that feeling of achieving something great if you're able to pull it off. We've made a lot of progress toward striking that balance and continuing to evolve the game, but it's not something we're ever likely to perfect, and we'll be constantly working to hit that elusive goal. Hopefully it's to the benefit of everyone playing and enjoying the game, and they'll continue to enjoy the journey that a living, breathing, persistent universe will take us on.


As a player that started on Launch day, I would agree with the original poster to this thread. I remember the horrific grinds it took to get from 1-60 back when the game was first created. The game was challenging every step of the way and for most of us that was what drew us to World of Warcraft away from Everquest and other MMOs before it. When a game starts to dumb down its content so that new players feel good about themselves, its a total slap in the face to those of us who worked hard to get to where we are today. Stepping foot into Molten Core and Blackwing Lair for the first time and knowing that even with a 40 man raid group it was to be challenging and exciting each week as our fellow raid members would get new gear and it was an achievement. Only players that dedicated their time to the game would have something to show for, and you knew they put in the dedication needed to be one of the few to be wearing such items. The beauty of raiding back then was that people knew their roles and knew them well, because they had to struggle through endless dungeon encounters learning how to play their classes.

Burning Crusade comes along and instantly we are replacing those items that we worked so hard for with quest items pretty much right out the gate. It felt like another slap in the face to those of us that worked so hard and put the time in again. By the time everyone reached level 70 it was yet time again to put on the afterburners and get solid raid teams together again, but this time there was something lacking in the game plan. Healers and Tanks became scarce, because in Burning Crusade everyone was given a better dps spec so nobody wanted to assume either role unless forced to do so. This made raiding a nightmare for those of us that raided in original WOW. So progression was much slower than before and made some encounters painfully long and guilds started falling apart.

Wrath of the Lich King, wow this was the casual players dream. Free epics to everyone, recount and gearscore mods ruling the fate of most players that wanted to raid. To me this was the end of raiding in WOW really, and i am not the only one to have that feeling. People no longer needed to learn to play their classes as they grew accustomed to Paladins walking in and aggroing the entire room and players would just aoe everything down. This was great for people to sit back and look at recount and say, "I am a 10k DPS player that is being carried by everyone else...I got free epics, look at my gearscore, weeeeee". Unfortunately, this attitude of players is now what we have to deal with in Cataclysm. It was said earlier that making the game accessible to all players is the intent of the game now. Rerolling a new character during Cataclysm has been very disappointing for those of us that have been playing this game for 6.5 years and have lots of time and money invested into it. The content is far to easy and it is making the game less enjoyable. When you queue for a heroic and have 6-7 changeovers before the first boss, because people do not get the fact that they need to learn to use their class abilities, but expect the instances to be steamrolled like in WotLK and leave if they wipe once that is a sign that maybe the earlier developing stage of the game from 1-70 may not have proved to be hard enough to force players to learn their classes. I understand that there is a lot of casual players that do not have the time to devote to the game like others and the intent is to cater to those players, but i have found that most of us have grown bored of the game, due to the lack of challenge and needless regurgitation of older content. I am not sure what the future holds for this game, but I am hoping the development teams will take this constructive criticism to heart as we have already lost a lot of great players to other MMOs already, whole guilds have left and its making it harder for those of us that want to stick around to progress in this game.

90 Blood Elf Rogue
9240
omg people who complain about original wow being a grind REALLY irritate me. So instead of a "grind" you want a big F**K'n Race and as a reward when you get to the end of the race you get a glorified chat room with queues to break up the chat time. EXCELLENT!!! much better than playing the actual game OUT IN THE WORLD that blizzard team spent prolly hundreds of hours making. I find sitting in org waiting for my dung/bg/arena queues to pop instead of getting a team together and actually roaming through the awesome vast world that is wow and have the thrill of possibly coming into contact with some players from the enemy faction, is MUCH more fun. Don't you all agree? oh wait..... most of you don't have a clue how fun that was cause you have never done it.


AND DON'T say I can still do the group thing cause there is next to NO ONE who will do that now because of the fail way this game has gone.
85 Night Elf Rogue
4535
04/11/2011 11:59 AMPosted by Dagmagi
We actually did raids with only 20-30 people and did just as well as we had done previous weeks with a full roster of 40. $0 man raiding had to many people whose only purpose was to filla raid slot, so 10 and 25 man raiding nicely eliminates those 15 "fluff" players.


I don't believe you did progression raiding in MC, BWL, AQ40, Naxx with 20-30 people. (Meaning your first boss kills in prior tier level gear.) Believe it or not, those instances were tuned and had gear checks. Patchwerk with 30 people in tier2 didn't happen.


exactly. sorry but i live on a realm where Death and taxes, the best north american guild, and possibly the worlds best guild, lived. and they didn't even have the ability to do such a thing.

why not take a look at wow wiki, Korgath. whoever you quoted is a retard and a bull#!##ter
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