Old Wow

85 Dwarf Warrior
2655
Another post extolling the virtues of "old WoW"? You sound like my grandfather, complaining about how things were ALWAYS better in the old days. We all do it, to some degree, I know. But if most of us could go back in time we would find things weren't so rosy when we got there. There are reasons for things to change.
Im not saying WotLK was easy, im not saying it was hard either. Yes i will admit when they threw ulduar at us that was a surprise. It changed things up a bit not only because of the new mechanics (vehicles in raid etc) but it was actually (hmodes) difficult at some points. But when people complain about Nax 2.0, EOE, ony 2.0, ICC(hmodes included) is too hard for people and or easy to them and now cata is too difficult it gets annoying when experienced players that are actually decent at the game see that game content is handed to them because the "hard" stuff was too difficult.
80 Human Death Knight
1130
04/12/2011 11:39 AMPosted by Kolgarth
Im not saying WotLK was easy, im not saying it was hard either. Yes i will admit when they threw ulduar at us that was a surprise. It changed things up a bit not only because of the new mechanics (vehicles in raid etc) but it was actually (hmodes) difficult at some points. But when people complain about Nax 2.0, EOE, ony 2.0, ICC(hmodes included) is too hard for people and or easy to them and now cata is too difficult it gets annoying when experienced players that are actually decent at the game see that game content is handed to them because the "hard" stuff was too difficult.


Experienced players that are decent at the game shouldn't catter to what happens to normal modes, they should be aiming at heroic/hard modes. Heroic and hard modes were not easy in wrath (in general, i know things like leviathan was a joke, and Naxx didn't even had them).

Wrath could be improved, but to me, it was better than Cata is, i know that i had a lot more fun in wrath.
Edited by Semerov on 4/12/2011 12:19 PM PDT
85 Dwarf Paladin
3450
I understand and respect gaming masochism. But, I think that changing mechanics to be more reasonable and less punishing is an improvement, not a detriment, to games in general. Many of us Original Gamers pine for the days of D&D-based yore when games were seemingly intended to break us down into sobbing masses created by an uncaring necromancer of pain and suffering, or at least didn't try to avoid it. Overcoming all of the obstacles (I CHOOSE NOT TO SHOOT HER WITH THE SILVER ARROW... NOOOOO) was a big part of what gaming (I HAVE 1 LIFE!?), and especially PC gaming (HOW DO I LOAD MOUSE DRIVERS?), were about. But, I feel we're lucky to now be in an age where those ideals (intended or not) are giving way to actual fun, actual challenge, and not fabricating it through high-reach requirements (I NEED A FAIRY MONK WITH A MAGIC LOCKPICK?).

What we've always been trying to do, what WoW has always been about (and to which much of its success is due) is to make an accessible MMO. Anyone that looks back at the game at launch and wishes it was as challenging now as it was then is not aware of the painstaking effort put into making this game accessible as compared to its predecessors. Since release we've refined that intent, eventually evolving the very few masochistic designs WoW actually ever started with, but ideally still offering those same prestige goals that give that feeling of achieving something great if you're able to pull it off. We've made a lot of progress toward striking that balance and continuing to evolve the game, but it's not something we're ever likely to perfect, and we'll be constantly working to hit that elusive goal. Hopefully it's to the benefit of everyone playing and enjoying the game, and they'll continue to enjoy the journey that a living, breathing, persistent universe will take us on.

Are you sure? After four years of being white in color, Banthar is now orange. No other clefthoof in Nagrand was white or near his size, but suddenly, his color had to change. Why? I could list a TON of such changes that seemed to only be changed for the sake of changing something.

At the same time, some things aren't changing enough. Naxx got killed for a higher level replacement. Then Onyxia's Lair, then Zul Gurub, which wasn't even replace. People think that the ZA 5 man is going to replace ZA 20. Even if it doesn't, look at some of the more recent 5 mans: ZA, ZG, SFK, Deadmines... Are you guys out of ideas or something?

I digress. People have been complaining about vanilla WOW for as long as it wasn't available to them. I personally have to wonder if they're right. I have never had a main per se. And since cata, I've actually deleted a couple 80s, an 82, etc to make way for alts. Cata has made chars disposable in that regard. Know what finally got me out of my altoholicism? Reps. Playing old world stuff. Sure I can solo most of it, but I never got to experience it before. At one point, I got a 2nd account primarily to be able to raid up without having to bother others. When I did, I had considered raising a mage to 60 on my other, vanilla only account for teleportation purposes, and considered taking him through AQ 20 for example to get the best gear he could at 60.

The point is, with so many people pining for earlier versions, why not provide them? I didn't start playing until 2.4 and at the time, I really wasn't up for group play. Now that I'm going back and seeing BC content, I LOVE it! It would be nice to have an environment where the level cap is 70 and you have to work the BC content for epics and such. I don't know. You offer pets on your store, why not make money off of the nostalgia aspect of the game?
90 Human Mage
11965
I must disagree - some things I enjoy that are easier but over all, I do miss the challenge. Also - I think your using the word "masochism" incorrectly... not exactly sure what you were trying to convey.
90 Human Paladin
9475
04/12/2011 12:30 PMPosted by Defilar
I must disagree - some things I enjoy that are easier but over all, I do miss the challenge. Also - I think your using the word "masochism" incorrectly... not exactly sure what you were trying to convey.


He was indicating that challenge through high-reach requirements was more masochistic instead of true challenge. I believe he was trying to convey that challenge through Nintendo-Hard mechanics isn't really a true challenge.

I'd say that real challenge is based off of multitasking, resource management, and some spatial awareness. Masochistic gaming is more founded on deliberately tedious and punishing gameplay(like Superman 64 for example)
87 Human Paladin
2285
I WANT TO CAPSLOCK THIS BASED ON FIRST PARAGRAPH BECAUSE I KNOW EVERYONE WILL OBSESS WITH BLUE RESPONSE.

I PLAYED VANILLA. Reducing from 40 man to 25 and 10 has nothing to do with intelligence.

Being a great raider in Vanilla has nothing to do with intelligence, and EVERYTHING to do with time. Intelligence maybe for the first 100 or so RAID LEADERS to beat a boss, but then once a strat is out it's just showing up, and doing your job for an extended period of time.

It took being on the right server with the same amount of people that had matching playtime availability and a desire to beat digital dragons.

Blizzard's decision to open it up to a larger community allowed people to be more flexible with time. Hey, maybe those people have jobs, and are intelligent. Maybe moreso than people able to raid 30 hours a week!

Guys, I've been to Vanilla. And trust me, if you had a life, it wasn't all that. Tons of good memories, and I've had my share of time in straight up raiding guilds, so I'm not bitter. I just don't see why everyone wants to keep grasping at the past.
81 Human Warlock
1320
I can't pinpoint it but something is lost. I guess after almost 6 years of non-stop play I have finally run out of WoW gas (sounds bad). Leveling has been reduced to a face roll of button mashing. I remember when every few quests required you to think a bit and use certain skills. Now mobs are so thinned out you can roll right in complete turn in, rinse and repeat your way to 85. Seeing the new content was fun but the 60 – 80 is hell all over again.

The first 3 years were a blast and I don’t regret anything but it's definitely time to move on...
85 Undead Warrior
5620
This game was originally intended for the hardcore people, as is all blizzard games, but when blizzard 'merged' with activision, (roughly in the middle of BC) the dollar signs became the determining intent of design, which gave birth to the abomination that was WoTLK.

As a vanilla player, there are really only things that i can think of that old wow had over new wow.
1, epeen. if you couldn't down ony, you couldn't get quel'serrar, period. only epic players were allowed to carry epic loot, not like the communistic system we have today. personally, i think the idea of incremental tier system (such as Spaulders of Heroism) needs to be re-looked, rather than making the tier boss itself child's play.

2, difficulty. I personally am IN LOVE with the idea that stuff is hard again, that dps/healing/threat in raids/solo/dungeons cannot be simply 'phoned in' as ghostcrawler put it. Its beginning to revert back to Wrath levels as people whine, but at cata opening, damage, threat, healing had to be worked for. i personally cried when i saw that hunter's multi-shot damage was being increased by 250% in the next patch.

other than these things, which are in my opinion major, the game itself has improved quite a bit. though i am not really a fan of the homogenization of classes, and the complete domination of hybrids, i can see that it is a necessary evil given that without it, i'd still be having to spam for two mages so we could do UBRS.
Edited by Syagrius on 4/12/2011 2:18 PM PDT
Community Manager
04/08/2011 07:03 PMPosted by Jeinathil
(I CHOOSE NOT TO SHOOT HER WITH THE SILVER ARROW... NOOOOO)


Are you referring to Shadowgate for the NES?!?!?!


Haha. Yes.
90 Tauren Druid
10955
Bashiok you are one of the main reasons I still have faith in blizzard. /fangirl
90 Draenei Shaman
3430
Omg bashiok is on this thread totalbisciuts gonna view this woot woot

anyway one topic i only got here mid-wotlk but i can say cata seems way better
even though i didnt experience raiding in wotlk. But vanilla and
tbc do seem really epic the way people talk about them i really loved
the tbc lvling experience and the 40 man raids seem awesome i do wish 40 man raids should be brought back the deathwing raid should be 40 man that would be
epic and make deathwing feel like an accomplishment.


What we've always been trying to do, what WoW has always been about (and to which much of its success is due) is to make an accessible MMO.


instead of acessible you should of put effortless, would of made more sense.

or did you mean by acessible; dumbed down and easy content and that we dont actually have to play the game to get our stuff, just sit in a town and wait.

90 Blood Elf Paladin
10215
I did to some extent enjoy the "layered" prerequisites of BC. It felt good to be progressing through raid prepping, so to speak. Just ending up in the daily grind when hitting 85 is a bit dreary.
44 Blood Elf Mage
8640
Idea! Have a single server run Vanilla to allow people to cling on to the past.
60 Human Priest
9175
04/12/2011 02:28 PMPosted by Bashiok


Are you referring to Shadowgate for the NES?!?!?!


Haha. Yes.


Oh my, I used to get so involved in that game. Damn it, now I have to go dig my NES and Shadowgate out of storage. Also, I have that damned song stuck in my head now.

♫Doot doodoo dooo♫
♫Doodoo doodoo dooo, doodoo dooo, doodoo♫
♫Doot doodoo dooo♫
AHH MY EYEBALL!!!
85 Goblin Hunter
3410
Classic is gone deal with it, its about moving forwards not backwards
60 Blood Elf Death Knight
0
I loved classic WoW. It felt so epic. I loved it.

Was it hard and often times a pain? Yes. There were good reasons things changed and in many aspects for the better.

I miss the epic fights between Southshore and Tauren Mill. I remember the first time I was in Ironforge looking around in awe.

I remember someone yelling "we need help at Southshore. Horde are overunning the place" and I remember seeing all these people running to the flightmaster.

I even remember the names of my bitter enemies on the Horde side. I would see them and drop what I was doing to chase them down and have some great fights.

We would /wave to each other in battlegrounds and go at it hammer and tongs.

The community was very good. You knew who the scum were. You knew who to play with and whom to avoid.

I remember when I got my first epic gear at level 60. I felt so HAPPY. I was just looking at it in my inventory and smiling away.

All those memories are gone like tears in the rain...

WoW has moved on. Same thing as my awesome memories of SWG before the NGE. I loved those days but you can't go back.
80 Human Death Knight
1130
This game was originally intended for the hardcore people, as is all blizzard games, but when blizzard 'merged' with activision, (roughly in the middle of BC) the dollar signs became the determining intent of design, which gave birth to the abomination that was WoTLK.

As a vanilla player, there are really only things that i can think of that old wow had over new wow.
1, epeen. if you couldn't down ony, you couldn't get quel'serrar, period. only epic players were allowed to carry epic loot, not like the communistic system we have today. personally, i think the idea of incremental tier system (such as Spaulders of Heroism) needs to be re-looked, rather than making the tier boss itself child's play.

2, difficulty. I personally am IN LOVE with the idea that stuff is hard again, that dps/healing/threat in raids/solo/dungeons cannot be simply 'phoned in' as ghostcrawler put it. Its beginning to revert back to Wrath levels as people whine, but at cata opening, damage, threat, healing had to be worked for. i personally cried when i saw that hunter's multi-shot damage was being increased by 250% in the next patch.

other than these things, which are in my opinion major, the game itself has improved quite a bit. though i am not really a fan of the homogenization of classes, and the complete domination of hybrids, i can see that it is a necessary evil given that without it, i'd still be having to spam for two mages so we could do UBRS.


Again, wrath was not easy, hard modes and heroic modes were really hard, world top guilds were calling yogg saron to be impossible after weeks of trying, less than 2% of raiders killed LK H, 10% killed putricide, thigns like firefighter were really challenging, watch the forums, almost none of the people that claimed wrath to be easy actually completed the content, including the toon you are talking from.

I'm tired of people trying to convince others they are pro by calling Wrath easy.
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