Old Wow

85 Troll Hunter
12905
There really are no epic grinds anymore. The closest thing is archaeology getting some of the rares, but thats more like a slot machine than a grind.

Though stuff did get more accessible without goofy requirements (fear ward, etc), the old rep grinds are something I think vanilla players miss, as well as the lack of 40 mans! It'd be fun to see them return in some fashion, its not like players arent being yanked around with the new 10-25 man settings that are driving us all nuts.

Why not do baradin hold 40 man! Its not like you have to program trash or anything.
85 Human Rogue
3410
Only thing I would want back is the quiver for hunters, it just doesn't make sense now, without ammo.
Chutz is right. Booting up computer games? Way too easy now. Any idiot can load a game. Remember the days when you had to make modified config.sys files that allocated your expanded and extended memory just to play a game through DOS? Those were the days. Only the best of the best could play the very best Wing Commander.

brb, writing email to Microsoft to roll back Windows. Completely. Real men play WITHOUT some version of DirectX/Open GL.
85 Tauren Warrior
4870

What we've always been trying to do, what WoW has always been about (and to which much of its success is due) is to make an accessible MMO.


Which is quite acceptable and understandable... but in some cases, you are making the game TOO open to the player base to exploit, and leaving the 'final' aspect of the game to be the best reward for the enduring experience..

Which to me.. seems just as fake at the orgasm sounds some girls try to sell guys with.. Funny that they still believe them thought...
90 Night Elf Rogue
16940
04/08/2011 05:49 PMPosted by Bashiok
I understand and respect gaming masochism. But, I think that changing mechanics to be more reasonable and less punishing is an improvement, not a detriment, to games in general.


The trouble is, nowadays you can't have this sort of thing in WoW. You can't put in a punishing grind, because people will just complain until it gets nerfed.

Wintersaber Trainers? Heh, no.
Insane? Oh, no, Shen'dralar is too hard!
Original Argent Dawn? Not even close.

It was said at one point Blizzard was thinking about another grind as punishing as the Insane achievement was. I don't see it happening. :(
90 Night Elf Priest
11470
vanilla wow had very little "movement" involved in their mechanics, but were impressive and fairly involved mechanics nonetheless.

no current day boss requires healers to stay in line of sight of the tank and dps, but not in line of sight of the boss itself.
85 Orc Death Knight
10440
I understand and respect gaming masochism. But, I think that changing mechanics to be more reasonable and less punishing is an improvement, not a detriment, to games in general. Many of us Original Gamers pine for the days of D&D-based yore when games were seemingly intended to break us down into sobbing masses created by an uncaring necromancer of pain and suffering, or at least didn't try to avoid it. Overcoming all of the obstacles (I CHOOSE NOT TO SHOOT HER WITH THE SILVER ARROW... NOOOOO) was a big part of what gaming (I HAVE 1 LIFE!?), and especially PC gaming (HOW DO I LOAD MOUSE DRIVERS?), were about. But, I feel we're lucky to now be in an age where those ideals (intended or not) are giving way to actual fun, actual challenge, and not fabricating it through high-reach requirements (I NEED A FAIRY MONK WITH A MAGIC LOCKPICK?).

What we've always been trying to do, what WoW has always been about (and to which much of its success is due) is to make an accessible MMO. Anyone that looks back at the game at launch and wishes it was as challenging now as it was then is not aware of the painstaking effort put into making this game accessible as compared to its predecessors. Since release we've refined that intent, eventually evolving the very few masochistic designs WoW actually ever started with, but ideally still offering those same prestige goals that give that feeling of achieving something great if you're able to pull it off. We've made a lot of progress toward striking that balance and continuing to evolve the game, but it's not something we're ever likely to perfect, and we'll be constantly working to hit that elusive goal. Hopefully it's to the benefit of everyone playing and enjoying the game, and they'll continue to enjoy the journey that a living, breathing, persistent universe will take us on.


Ok man, this is the 1st time I'm gonna address a blue and here it goes - I disagree with you entirely. While some people go about saying "wow is too easy" "wow is for casuals now" they are not entirely in the wrong. Now wow feels like any sporting event at a pre school. Everyone gets a trophy and there no longer is any sense of acompishment. I remember feeling superior to my fellow people on US - Uldum because I was the 1st player fully decked out in 359 gear, one of ten individuals on the server with the "Defender of a Shattered World" title, until you nerfed the content and any jagoff was killing heroic halfus and Chimeron without having to put in the 9000 wipes we had to do.

My gripe is such - Wow was challenging, Heroic dungeons were supposed to be hard. They WERE hard, but they were Doable. I almost smiled from ear to ear when Ghostcrawler came out and made a gigantic blog post about how heroic modes were supposed to be hard. They were supposed to put you in the raiding mind set, basicly wow's tutorial mode for raiding content. Then you go and nerf everything to the ground (mind you, you buffed a few fights but you just buffed em in a way so that they would feel like the fights you nerfed) but my fellow wow players will agree, it was a nerf, through and through.

We were still happy with the raiding content, at least that still provided a challenge, right? Wrong! you nerfed that to the ground as well, Omnutron's shield no longer procs from pet and dot damage? half the challenge in that fight aside from running away from adds was watching your dot timers and the boss timer and macro your pet's main attack to your main attack so it swapped! Atremedes Searing flame no longer gives you sound? CMON! Now if you only did that to the normal modes, i would understand but heroic modes too! hard modes are supposed to be for us raiders with the mindset that hard modes are supposed to be hard. its supposed to be our trophy, not the slightly shiner trophy that looks like everyone elses.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
12440
I must say this is the best thread i've read in a few months.

I've been playing since the start of 06' and spent my fair share of time in MC and Blackwing and there are a few things i miss about the "old" WoW but the game as a whole, in my opinion, has become a lot better. Im also glad its not as much of a time sink as before or i else i wouldn't be able to keep playing. I don't miss the Argent dawn grind or the Thorium Brotherhood gind if anything i think its helped me appreciate the current rep grinds.

I completly agree that a lot of the 40 man raids were actualy 30 people working at killing the boss and 10 people standing around watching t.v. I carried my fair share of lazy raiders and really enjoy the tight nit difficulty of 10man raiding and heroic modes. On that note i did feel like Wotlk was a bit too easy with epic gear being a little too easy to obtain along with heroics being a walk in the park. I did really enjoy Ulduar and the way they did hard modes (wouldn't mind seeing that again) and personally was one of the best raids i've done so far. There are still a lot of items that you have to put a lot of work into to get and everyone doesn't have them along with rare mounts and achievements. And for all those people saying Cataclysm is too hard or doesn't offer enough i have to disagree. Im really enjoying the reversion back to blue gear in heroics and needing some sort of CC to start out heroics.


I think Blizz is doing great and can't wait to see Firelands.

Thanks blizz!

old wow sucked balls, i stopped playing it was so bad. bc was like a breath of fresh air. still remember one of my old friends %##@#ing about farming onyxia for 3 months and still not getting his hat.
85 Night Elf Rogue
7155
The only thing I wish that today's content had that old world content had was huge events that happened, such as the opening of the AQ 40 gates.


Unfortunately such cool events are unlikely to ever happen again. All we get now is "The Shattering!", a bunch of portals open up in cities :P
04/08/2011 05:49 PMPosted by Bashiok
gaming masochism.


glad someone gets it aswell
85 Tauren Druid
2225
no ty, i play a game to get fun, not stress
28 Undead Rogue
380
You are funny very often without the use of so much of caps Bashiok, why hurt our eyes. :(

I think the demand for a punishing game is too small to dedicate a complete game in this day and age. Even the games that are more punishing than WoW/etc. do it in a very fair and fun manner(Demon's Soul?). This takes up a lot of developer time to design the game such that the player is properly prepared before every challenge so that the punishment isn't meted out based on random/luck factors but purely on performance factors. Still, I don't want to repeat 90% of the level spending 10 minutes to clear it just because I can't pass the hurdle at the very end. Design of the game Braid is top-notch in this aspect(hold Shift key, and retry immediately, reversing death etc.).
90 Human Paladin
9475
04/08/2011 08:44 PMPosted by Alisonprime
Now wow feels like any sporting event at a pre school. Everyone gets a trophy and there no longer is any sense of acompishment.


Say a team wins a major baseball tournament, and in the ceremony they receive a trophy. Later, a team member finds out that same type of trophy is used for pee-wee tournaments as well. Does the fact that some kid has the same piece of plastic defeat the sense of accomplishment for the team that won the tournament?

It just seems that your sense of accomplishment should be based more off of the challenge itself, rather than the loot or the achievement.

04/08/2011 08:44 PMPosted by Alisonprime
I remember feeling superior to my fellow people on US - Uldum because I was the 1st player fully decked out in 359 gear, one of ten individuals on the server with the "Defender of a Shattered World" title, until you nerfed the content and any jagoff was killing heroic halfus and Chimeron without having to put in the 9000 wipes we had to do.


So, you were only doing this content to gain a false sense of superiority to other people? Maybe we've learned something about not being so emotionally invested in a game, now? And how long have you been playing WoW, that you didn't anticipate nerfs at some point?

04/08/2011 08:44 PMPosted by Alisonprime
its supposed to be our trophy, not the slightly shiner trophy that looks like everyone elses.

I think you have the wrong mentality if it's all about the trophy. It's fine if you're playing this game to impress yourself, but I think you're going to end up disappointed regardless if it's all about impressing others.
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