Why a fire mage is better than an arcane mage

Okay, so most of you out there are probably going to comment on this and say that an arcane mage does way more dps than a fire mage. This may be true in some fights, ( fights which you stand still and do nothing a.k.a. Argaloth) but in others it is not.

Fire mages have much better mobility than arcane mages do. In these cata boss fights, you are constantly moving in every fight. Arcane mages can't move or their stacks will run out of time and their dps will be screwed. Fire mages can cast every spell except fireball while moving, thus making them much better in about every fight in cata.

In a lot of fights there are also AoE phases. Arcane has absolutely no AoE whatsoever. Fire mages have one of the greatest AoE's in the game currently, and arcane mages don't compare to them.

Fire mages aren't even that far behind arcane mages for single target fights. If a fire mage really knows how to play, really knows how to get good combustions, there is not much of a dps difference between a fire mage and arcane mage on non-movement fights.

Patch 4.1

A lot of you think arcane is going to be so much greater because the whole spec is getting a 13% buff. Since arcane is a one spell rotations and arcane blast damage is getting increased by 13%, that's how much more damage arcane mages will be doing.

If you know anything about fire, you will know that fixing our ignite bug, will also increase our dps a good amount. For 1, we will always get good combustions if all of or dots are up. Since our ignite will only be from direct hit crits, the ignite tick will be much higher, making our combustion higher every time. It will also increase the total damage of ignite because instead of ticking for 3k from a dot, it will tick for 15k from a pyroblast crit.

Fire will still be the better spec as it is right now.

It has much better mobility, not too far behind single target dps(non-movement) and is much, much better for AoE than arcane.

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Also, it's funner.
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85 Goblin Mage
5535
04/18/2011 08:10 PMPosted by Tikhon
Also, it's funner.

HURR HURR FUNNER
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85 Troll Mage
3170
the guy above me is arcane/fire for PvP :\
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11670
04/18/2011 07:53 PMPosted by Astranna
A lot of you think arcane is going to be so much greater because the whole spec is getting a 13% buff. Since arcane is a one spell rotations and arcane blast damage is getting increased by 13%, that's how much more damage arcane mages will be doing.

Ignorance on so many points, I don't even know where to start.

04/18/2011 07:53 PMPosted by Astranna
If you know anything about fire, you will know that fixing our ignite bug, will also increase our dps a good amount.

Doesn't simulations actually show that the ignite change is a slight DPS *loss*? And the change is more.... quality of life stuff?

Anyways, why did I reply to this person? Why?
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85 Goblin Mage
5535
04/18/2011 08:24 PMPosted by Minikick
the guy above me is arcane/fire for PvP :\

And yet somehow I make it work.
Amazing.
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85 Troll Mage
11735
If a fire mage really knows how to play, really knows how to get good combustions, there is not much of a dps difference between a fire mage and arcane mage on non-movement fights.

lol. oh lawdy it hurts to breathe.
If a fire mage gets really good (RNG) strings of criticals when he or she needs them, and there are other targets nearby, there is not much of a dps difference between a fire mage and arcane mage on non-movement fights.


Also, We've known for a long time now that Arcane is very susceptible to damage-loss via movement. It's clear the spec has been designed that way, and is not a flaw by any means. What you don't seem to realize is how much of that movement you can minimize or avoid, which is one of the reasons why you suck at Arcane and promote Fire so much today, and sucked at both specs prior to 4.0.
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70 Human Paladin
650
04/18/2011 08:41 PMPosted by Ordoo
the guy above me is arcane/fire for PvP :\

And yet somehow I make it work.
Amazing.


Judging by your ratings, you pretty much don't.
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85 Goblin Mage
5535
04/18/2011 09:22 PMPosted by Highskoore

And yet somehow I make it work.
Amazing.


Judging by your ratings, you pretty much don't.

24-8 with a Holy Pally in 2's
Nuff said
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90 Gnome Mage
8445
OK. I'll bite. It's late and I've nothing better to do...

04/18/2011 07:53 PMPosted by Astranna
Okay, so most of you out there are probably going to comment on this and say that an arcane mage does way more dps than a fire mage. This may be true in some fights, ( fights which you stand still and do nothing a.k.a. Argaloth) but in others it is not.


So dual spec and bring the best option to the fight.

Fire mages have much better mobility than arcane mages do. In these cata boss fights, you are constantly moving in every fight. Arcane mages can't move or their stacks will run out of time and their dps will be screwed...


No question fire has mobility. The rest of the comment is fail.

In a lot of fights there are also AoE phases. Arcane has absolutely no AoE whatsoever. Fire mages have one of the greatest AoE's in the game currently, and arcane mages don't compare to them.


Fire has great AoE provided you proc and don't get munched. I'ts one of the strongest AoE specs out there right now. I would argue that glyphed Arcane Explosions AoE hitting for 20K (predictably I might add) isn't too shabby and will be getting stronger soon.

Fire mages aren't even that far behind arcane mages for single target fights. If a fire mage really knows how to play, really knows how to get good combustions, there is not much of a dps difference between a fire mage and arcane mage on non-movement fights.


Put that fire mage up against an arcane of the same caliber and let me know how that works out for ya.

Patch 4.1

A lot of you think arcane is going to be so much greater because the whole spec is getting a 13% buff. Since arcane is a one spell rotations and arcane blast damage is getting increased by 13%, that's how much more damage arcane mages will be doing.


This statement is fail. Read the patch notes again. Then again for good measure...

If you know anything about fire, you will know that fixing our ignite bug, will also increase our dps a good amount. For 1, we will always get good combustions if all of or dots are up. Since our ignite will only be from direct hit crits, the ignite tick will be much higher, making our combustion higher every time. It will also increase the total damage of ignite because instead of ticking for 3k from a dot, it will tick for 15k from a pyroblast crit.

Fire will still be the better spec as it is right now.

It has much better mobility, not too far behind single target dps(non-movement) and is much, much better for AoE than arcane.


Yawn. That wasn't as fun as I thought it would be.
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85 Goblin Mage
11630


Judging by your ratings, you pretty much don't.

24-8 with a Holy Pally in 2's
Nuff said


At 1500 rating... nuff said.

@ OP, Arcane will be stronger on virtually every single fight except Atramedes, Al'akir, Cho'gall, Maloriak.
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70 Human Paladin
650

24-8 with a Holy Pally in 2's
Nuff said


At 1500 rating... nuff said.

@ OP, Arcane will be stronger on virtually every single fight except Atramedes, Al'akir, Cho'gall, Maloriak.


This. Congrats, you managed to faceroll a bunch of bads from 0-1550.
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85 Blood Elf Mage
8510
Arcane = driving a standard car, and Fire = driving an automatic car...
You will do better with arcane if you have good controls (mana, cd...), but if you suck at control... fire is the way to go.
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90 Gnome Mage
10765
there was a post somewhere (to lazy to look for it)
patchwork style fights, arc tops, fire, FFB fire, both frost (ffb/fb)
movement/aoe fights, fire is still top with arc somewhere lower, that aoe buff to arc blast is stupid.
his simulators had fire doing top, arc, FFB fire, and frost is still garbage for patch style fights.
ffb fire beats arc for atramedes and similar fights over arc in movement fights.
frost is still garbage.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11670
04/19/2011 01:30 AMPosted by Magepwnyou
Because simulators are totally accuarate on this game amirite?

And because "I think it will be a DPS increase" based on emotion is totally accurate?
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@ OP, Arcane will be stronger on virtually every single fight except Atramedes, Al'akir, Cho'gall, Maloriak.


Pretty much this.

Depending on just how good Arcanes new aoe is. It maybe competitive with fire on Heroic Maloriak. I don't know for sure until I can field test it for myself.
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85 Goblin Mage
11630
04/19/2011 01:30 AMPosted by Magepwnyou
Doesn't simulations actually show that the ignite change is a slight DPS *loss*?



Because simulators are totally accuarate on this game amirite?


The most accurate thing you could possibly go off of.
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85 Undead Mage
4135
Frost is number one! :D

No I'm kidding, but really. There is no right or wrong spec. No good or bad. It's just weather or not the person using the spec is competent enought to play it. Weather or not it be Fire or Arcane.
Edited by Aravik on 4/19/2011 5:42 AM PDT
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85 Draenei Mage
5065
Fact 1: The "ignite fix" is a nerf to single target dps. And a huge nerf to aoe dps.
Fact 2: AB isnt being increased by 13% its being reduced by .54% and having its cast time reduced by .5 seconds.
Fact 3: If your doing the strat right and know when to move, and when not to, arcane beats fire on a majority of fights now with proper gearing.
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