That it?

85 Worgen Druid
4380
04/28/2011 07:35 PMPosted by Damonu


Heroic modes are not the point. Nobody is debating that there are 12 bosses to 'learn'. The largest issue under discussion is that once everything is on farm (which will happen substantially faster than in T11 unless the encounters are substantially harder on average, which is a problem itself), you are still only killing 6 bosses, and this will likely be a one night a week event. Which is equivalent to telling pvpers they can only do 10 battlegrounds or arenas a week, and the rest of their time must be spent doing other aspects of the game they do not enjoy.


Oh, and this is different from...? Right, it has always been this way.


This is true however less time doing what they enjoy leads to people leaving the game. and as a blue post said #justsaying
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90 Human Paladin
8855
I have complete confidence that, if 4.2 does turn out to be too light on content, you'll learn and adapt for future patches.





The problem in general is that having faith is fine, but trying to keep a guild through these constant blizzard experiments is getting incredibly old, incredibly fast. How many more hoops are we going to be forced to jump through while you fine tune here? Why can't you just release new content without reinventing the wheel every darn patch? There are PEOPLE playing this game. If something is working, why on earth are you changing?


Making a major change for an expansion is one thing. Constantly changing directions from one patch to the next that seemingly contradict each other during an expansion is just flat out uncalled for.


I think you're exaggerating the issue here. That said, I find it pretty hilarious when people spout that 'reinventing the wheel' nonsense. Reinvention in this case is simply attempting to improve upon an existing item. Just because it's working doesn't mean it can't and shouldn't be improved. Sufficiency pales in comparison to superiority and improvement.
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85 Draenei Shaman
3715
04/28/2011 07:35 PMPosted by Damonu
Oh, and this is different from...? Right, it has always been this way.


Completely untrue, the only previous 'short' tier where the older content wasn't worth running was ToC, and I guess debatably, Sunwell. Old content being worth running softens the blow of a short tier substantially, and gives guilds at least enough to do a week to keep up member interest levels.

The reason this no longer works is the 'gear reset every tier' system that has been in place since ToC.
Edited by Ophidon on 4/28/2011 7:42 PM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
8855


A single player from a single player level? Feel free to voice your opinion, but don't think you're right in asserting it. You are by no means sufficient to determine what is or isn't satisfactory from a player base standpoint.


From a raiders standpoint at my level then yes i am. So all these people saying 7 bosses isnt enough are all my accounts. Some people just agree with everything a blue posts say. They are not your typical playerbase either.


You're only getting a handful of samples from just this thread. Also, "all these people" is a pretty broad statement; perhaps you could expand? With that in mind, I also suggest you obtain a better understanding of scientific reasoning.
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100 Troll Priest
14935






The problem in general is that having faith is fine, but trying to keep a guild through these constant blizzard experiments is getting incredibly old, incredibly fast. How many more hoops are we going to be forced to jump through while you fine tune here? Why can't you just release new content without reinventing the wheel every darn patch? There are PEOPLE playing this game. If something is working, why on earth are you changing?


Making a major change for an expansion is one thing. Constantly changing directions from one patch to the next that seemingly contradict each other during an expansion is just flat out uncalled for.


I think you're exaggerating the issue here. That said, I find it pretty hilarious when people spout that 'reinventing the wheel' nonsense. Reinvention in this case is simply attempting to improve upon an existing item. Just because it's working doesn't mean it can't and shouldn't be improved. Sufficiency pales in comparison to superiority and improvement.



If something can be improved, you should. If said improvement can actually do more harm than good, you better be darn sure it's worth it.

Like I said, experiments are fine when they work(3 drake Sarth). When they fail(ToGC), they fail hard. And in this game, when something fails, it can split up a community. And for those that have any semblance of what an MMO is, your community is everything. You lose that, you lose the MMO.



In all honesty, you're much better off doing something small and finding out if works or not, than basing an ENTIRE tier of content on it since it could very well be the only new thing your gamer-base sees for 6 months.
Edited by Meia on 4/28/2011 7:44 PM PDT
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85 Draenei Warrior
12895
04/28/2011 07:27 PMPosted by Seraphy
my only issues with this patch is the fact that without rag around whos going to be the next endgame boss cause i cant imagine it will be deathwing i mean its a bit to early in the expansion for him to come out i mean after we killed all of the bosses in BWD/ ToTFW and BOT its just seems there aren't any more raid bosses to kill unless you guys to make a new troll raid or do something with that old god that you guys have being hinting about with all the in game references to him or her(a female old god would be cool)

Zulazar with N'Zath
Mannoroth in War of the Ancients
Corrupted Neptulon or Ozumat in Abyss Maw
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85 Worgen Druid
4380


From a raiders standpoint at my level then yes i am. So all these people saying 7 bosses isnt enough are all my accounts. Some people just agree with everything a blue posts say. They are not your typical playerbase either.


You're only getting a handful of samples from just this thread. Also, "all these people" is a pretty broad statement; perhaps you could expand? With that in mind, I also suggest you obtain a better understanding of scientific reasoning.


So next time i make a point or have an opinion i'll be sure to check that everyone agrees with it. Freedom of speech. Where are you. Im not gonna waste any more time on your nonsense. When this post is about the content scheduled for 4.2
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85 Tauren Hunter
1030
04/28/2011 07:40 PMPosted by Ophidon
Oh, and this is different from...? Right, it has always been this way.


Completely untrue, the only previous 'short' tier where the older content wasn't worth running was ToC, and I guess debatably, Sunwell. Old content being worth running softens the blow of a short tier substantially, and gives guilds at least enough to do a week to keep up member interest levels.

The reason this no longer works is the 'gear reset every tier' system that has been in place since ToC.


I don't see the problem then. People will still have to run the old raids for their members as, so far, the justice gear does not allow for more.

Or perhaps some of you were expecting something like end-tbc? I guess you need to be brought back to the similarity of Ulduar and Naxxramas, the difference being that this people people will still have to run BoT and BD for they won't attain the gear elsewhere.
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85 Orc Shaman
6460
At least Titan will probably have a lot of content since it seems they've moved so much man power over to that project
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90 Human Paladin
8855


You're only getting a handful of samples from just this thread. Also, "all these people" is a pretty broad statement; perhaps you could expand? With that in mind, I also suggest you obtain a better understanding of scientific reasoning.


So next time i make a point or have an opinion i'll be sure to check that everyone agrees with it. Freedom of speech. Where are you. Im not gonna waste any more time on your nonsense. When this post is about the content scheduled for 4.2


It's not nonsense so much as you're just making flaws in your reasoning. I said freely voice your opinion, but don't think you are correct in your assertion of it, especially when you don't have evidence to support it.
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90 Goblin Shaman
5315
Well to be different here Im looking forward to 4.2, The models look amazing and I hope (Crossing fingers) that you make some awesome looking gear =D I will definatly be on the ptr for this patch.

Kudos.
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85 Worgen Druid
4380



Completely untrue, the only previous 'short' tier where the older content wasn't worth running was ToC, and I guess debatably, Sunwell. Old content being worth running softens the blow of a short tier substantially, and gives guilds at least enough to do a week to keep up member interest levels.

The reason this no longer works is the 'gear reset every tier' system that has been in place since ToC.


I don't see the problem then. People will still have to run the old raids for their members as, so far, the justice gear does not allow for more.

Or perhaps some of you were expecting something like end-tbc? I guess you need to be brought back to the similarity of Ulduar and Naxxramas, the difference being that this people people will still have to run BoT and BD for they won't attain the gear elsewhere.


People wont run BWD and BOT as the gear wont be current. I may be wrong but i doubt it

Dnt get me wrong i think Firelands looks amazing and will be fun for sure, but i have doubts about the amount of content being provided
Edited by Ajaxis on 4/28/2011 7:53 PM PDT
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85 Draenei Shaman
3715
I don't see the problem then. People will still have to run the old raids for their members as, so far, the justice gear does not allow for more.

Or perhaps some of you were expecting something like end-tbc? I guess you need to be brought back to the similarity of Ulduar and Naxxramas, the difference being that this people people will still have to run BoT and BD for they won't attain the gear elsewhere.


If, indeed, there is no move transfer T11 items to justice points, and make T12 available through valor points, that would solve this entire issue by keeping T11 raiding moderately useful. However, I really doubt it will happen this way. As instead it would bring back all the old problems of large barriers of entry to raiding, difficulty switching mains, and lack of use of the later tiers due to the reduced playerbase access. (I believe ~2% of guilds ever killed anything in Naxx 40?)
Edited by Ophidon on 4/28/2011 8:08 PM PDT
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85 Dwarf Hunter
SOS
7070
Posted by Bashiok
I think you're right, though.


GOING ON MY TWITTER.



Lore, you just won the internet. Where are you going?
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100 Blood Elf Warrior
11330
People talk about fireland while most of them aren't done with the first tier of raiding. Many the next raid after fireland will come sooner than expected.

I hope blizzard will at least make an achievement like the ulduar one, Herald of the Titans, for Sinestra because my guild really want to kill her, but 4.2 draw closer...
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85 Tauren Paladin
2660
04/28/2011 03:10 PMPosted by Bashiok
bosses were larger versions of existing models


I would like to see a incredibly small gnome size boss please!
That way no one can see it and the tank can start hitting air and everyone can wipe and die =)
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85 Orc Warrior
6795
Been all downhill since Ulduar.

Stop working on nice, but non-essential UI improvements. It's been relentless recently, and while its nice and all, the actual, you know, gameplay is what people care about, whether they are old players or new ones.

Heroics being longer than raids is a joke, the game I used to enjoy is being eroded away by its own creators.

ICC to Cata gap was understandable, once.

Cata to 4.1 gap was far, far too long, but hopes for 4.2 kept many waiting.

admissions of the severe lack of 4.2 raid content is deeply troubling.

Developers should focus now on making up for lost time, pushing out extra worthwhile (no re-used junk), all-new raid content, and shorter Heroics for people who don't have 2hrs straight to do one run.
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85 Draenei Shaman
8545
After skimming through some of these posts, reading what Lore has posted and a lot of some of the other people that got quoted by Bashiok, 7 bosses in my opinion is also too few.

Ok, if there were say 2 or 3 new raids in 4.2, 7 per raid would be fine. But no, it is only Firelands. My guild runs 3 days a week, on 3 hours per night. Yeah, we haven't killed every hardmode yet, but on a good night for us, we can clear BWD, and BoT. That leaves 2 nights to do Throne of the Four Winds (which in my opinion is a joke).

I LOVED Ulduar, as I'm sure several other people did as well. What was it, 14 bosses? Also the fact that you didn't need to manually change the instance to Heroic to do the hard mode. I loved having the option to do the hardmode of the encounter when you were fighting the boss. Hodir: kill him within a certain time frame, Mimiron: Press the Red Button, etc. Those are more interesting to me than "Ok, switch it to heroic so we can do just this one boss, then we can switch it back."

In my opinion, if you were only having one raid for a patch, give us more. I understand that there is a lot of work that has gone into Firelands already. But 7 bosses just doesn't cut it in my opinion. Like others have said, even if the bosses are a bit more challenging, there will still be the point where we are just going to be tired of running the instance due to lack of content. ToC was a joke. My guild ended up going back to Ulduar to get new people their drakes just because there was nothing else to do. I do not want to do that with this raid.

I do support blizzard with everything they do. I just think there should be more than 7 bosses for one whole tier of raiding.
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85 Draenei Paladin
7470
i understand how people keep complaining about how little content there is in 4.2 but we havent even seen how the raid bosses are sure there are only 7 of them but we know nothing on the intensity of the bosses nor what the dailys quest or the zones are like and if i remember correctly blizz said they would make smaller patches with less content but have more patch in total so i say go with that id much prefer 3 raids with 7 bosses each spread over 3 patches than 1 patch with one raid that only has 13-14 bosses
and the gripe about blizz remaking the wheel every raid is due to the fact the same people who complain about it are the same people who complain that the bosses are all to similar and they want to be challenged so really lets just let blizz do what they do so for the only raid people have ever complained about is TOC which to be honest isn't that bad
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